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Who gives a rat's rear and why is it so important?

Slinky wrote:Who gives a rat's rear and why is it so important?

it is important

we will vote in the end with our money
will support whoever is supporting the patient, not the DME

cpapernewbie wrote:we will vote in the end with our money
will support whoever is supporting the patient, not the DME

At the moment, that would appear to be Puritan Bennett.

just remember these historical info:

2) RESMED price control policy on on-line sale

2) RESMED take off software from public
followed by RESPIRONICS

3) RESMED pressure eBay news in this thread

Anonymous wrote:just remember these historical info:

As reinvented by someone who is desperately trying to justify crying WOLF on the basis of strongly held beliefs and zero hard evidence!

Ultimately it doesn't matter who's "responsible". And I disagree with the argument that "we" would vote with our pocketbooks if we knew who did it. Personally I just recently discovered the mask which seems to work best for me without major leaks. (After much trial and error) That's the mask I will use. I won't be protesting by getting less efficient therapy.

To me the bigger problem is why these things cost so much in the first place. Two hundred dollars for a Resmed Quattro is insane. $60 for a replacement cushion worse. Insurance companies and suppliers work hand in hand to create this problem for us. First the insurance companies are so stingy in what they'll pay for services and products that suppliers ramp up the cost to get a fair amount from the the insurance people. The insurance companies know they're getting ripped off and lower the percentage they'll pay. It becomes a self perpetuating cycle.

My DME mistakenly told me when I first got my equipment that my insurance covered a new cushion and filters every month, that I was "entitled" to a new mask every six months, etc. It was not true. And it's my fault for not checking. My insurance covers nothing but the machine and no supplies. Next thing I know I have a six hundred dollar bill which my insurance isn't covering. The DME settled with me. I paid half the bill, they called it even. I have no doubt they still made money. When I do need a new mask I intend to ask them if they'll sell it to me @50% off since they're not gouging my insurance company but are selling to a patient directly.

It's the world we live in. If it's a piece of medical equipment charge 500% more for it than you would if it weren't. As for Ebay it's regrettable. But I'm the kind of person who believes the government should butt out of our lives as much as possible. Protect our borders, improve our roads and bridges. I don't need them protecting me by requiring RXs for CPAP supplies. Or other regulations like labeling on paint thinner explaining that I shouldn't drink it, that a 5 gallon bucket is dangerous if your kid sticks his head in it and on and on. How I survived my childhood riding bikes 5 hours a day without headgear I'll never fathom. Of course I also believe if you kill yourself using medical equipment improperly your family shouldn't be able to sue for millions due to your ignorance.

As much as I'll miss getting a Quattro on Ebay for $100 if the reason I could get it at that price was some salesman was selling his professional samples, well that's not good. He's stealing and I'm unknowingly receiving stolen goods. I want no part of that. What I want is a fair price from the manufacturer on an item I NEED, and don't have the luxury of going elsewhere for.

I went to a "secondary" DME -- one that is not recommended by my insurance co. -- and I'm getting fair prices for "out of pocket" masks and supplies. When I first made contact I made sure the rep knew what I was asking about and would eventually order was out of pocket and wouldn't be reimbursed by insurance. (So instead of paying the $350 the insurance company would probably pay for a mask, I'm paying the $93.00 that it's actually worth and I'm sure the DME is making an honest profit.)

It's my understanding (and it could be in error) that the insurance companies are the one's that set the pay rate. The DME may "bill" the insurance company $1200 for a CPAP machine, but the insurance company will only pay $750 and because they are "contracted" the DME will settle for that -- which still gives them a hefty profit. (they know they're only going to get the $750, so the difference may have tax implications - I dunno)

The law is what it is and if one vendor or other wants 3rd parties to ensure the law is being enforced -- so be it. The vendor here is totally irrelevant to the issue - it really doesn't matter if it's Resmed, or Respironics, or ACME Mask. Inc. There will always be some that will make them out to be villains because it rains on their parade.
Law or not, the absurdity in this whole issue is that Masks are made prescription items by the manufacturers. It's only done to protect distribution channels and to provide an avenue to actively enable price controls which will make the prices higher than they should be......that's the real bottom line.

Bill, I don't know what the law's are in Oz as far as masks being a prescription item or not. Perhaps you can clue us in on that.

It appears to be a US issue in this case, as it's the FDA that sets those rules here (I can't speak for international laws and/or regulations!!!!!)..... The FDA really needs to refuse to "license" the products as prescription items (in other words, honestly review the applications instead of just rubber stamping them), and make the manufactures get real or justify their request for prescription status - ie. what harm will be experienced if the masks are available to the "general public"??? They won't be able to "steal" as much from the insurance companies???
Interesting!!! Masks could be cheaper?? Wow. What a concept!!!

Once again, as I've said in this whole issue -- it's dollars, clear, plain and simple......

cheers
goose

goose wrote:Bill, I don't know what the law's are in Oz as far as masks being a prescription item or not. Perhaps you can clue us in on that.

In Australia CPAP machines can only be supplied new after sighting an appropriate prescription from a physician, but CPAP masks are not prescription items. Masks are also not covered by any medical insurance available here that I am aware of, so everyone here pays for them out of their own pocket. CPAP machine are covered by some levels of private health insurance but the payment goes to the patient not to the provider

Again, its worth noting that in Australia both private and public medical insurance, and private and public healthcare delivery in general, operate significantly differently to the US.

Cheers,

Bill

Not all sales on Ebay were by unscrupulous vendors. Ebay was a great resource for passing barely used masks on at a more reasonable rate. I absolutely would consider purchasing a mask to try from Ebay.

I'm not one of the lucky ones in the cpap lotto. Both my sleep doc and dme are of little help. I haven't found the right mask for me, so yes, I'm ticked off if anyone makes this harder. Trying to shut down internet sales and forcing me to use my dme isn't in my best interest. It doesn't help me comply with my therapy. It doesn't help my health.

I don't accept that that's just the way it is. Consumers can affect change. I'm fairly new to the whole cpap game and it has been an eye opening experience.

I don't think this will enlighten anyone but I'm including it anyway. This is a snippet of an email from a Resmed consumer rep in response to an email I sent.


>Regarding your inquiry, it is the FDA that enforces the requirements for >medical devices. The FDA classifies a CPAP mask along with the CPAP >flow generator as a class two medical device and therefore requires a >physician’s prescription.

Don't bother going through all that on Ebay, There are pleny of machines and supplies on a new auction site http://www.cpap-auctions.com. It works just like yahoo and Ebay did but with no hassles. I just bought a biflex there today.

Hi

Happy to hear that we now have a dedicated CPAP auction site

Not clear though on the method of payment - PayPal, Credit card or what?

I still feel safer with Amazon

I just tried to register there just to see how it works and it requires all kinds of information including credit card info.
I didn't end up registering.

Yes, I did try to register and stopped. Not knowing who is behind this and having no historical records, it is better to just wait and see first

I just now registered and it didn't ask me for a credit card number. Did ask for street address, email, etc., but nothing about credit card.

Wonder if this is the cpap auction site that cpap.com has been working on? If so, I'll feel good about looking for used machines and masks there. Hope that's what this new site is.

_______________________________

Update: I just now asked Ted (Titrator) if that's the new auction site sponsored by cpap.com

That one is not.

The cpap.com auction site (open now for registration and beta testing) is at:

http://www.cpapauction.com

I don't know, but if these companies are having the gov. put them down as needing a script when in all actuality they don't. Say everyone here wrote to the attorney general office, say in the state where ebay is & ask them to look into price fixing by that process of how they classify mask. I believe they would sue those companies.
How about everyone here sign a petition saying they will no longer do business with ebay until they change there policy??