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Split_City,

I want to personally and publicly apologize for arguing with you. It is out of character for me and as I have said, I was tired, and and feeling emotional and definitely NOT on my 100% game.

I also want to apologize for making you think you had called me dumb. You did not. I misinterpreted another person's comments in a very odd way that the light of day has shone the light on. I have already apologized to that person so feel no need to bring up the details here as they will only contribute to the confusion.

I'm not sure where our "conversation" derailed. I am not willing to go back and reread all the posts (perhaps that is selfish) because the idea upsets me, not because I might be wrong--I very well could be, but because the topics we discussed literally raise my blood pressure.

As they probably do many other members here--which may be why so many are jumping to my defense in one manner or another. While you may want to discuss facts--to many of us these are very personal and debilitating topics--hot buttons--if you will.

For example, maybe I wouldn't have lost 10 years of my life to a fog, developed high blood pressure, gained 70 lbs and been on the verge of developing diabetes--IF THE VERY FIRST DOCTOR that I voiced my suspicians about anxiety, depression, fatigue and sleep had listened to me and taken me seriously instead of patting me on the head like a "hysterical female" or something. 10 years, split_city is a big chunk of your life to feel like crap. Many here suffered far longer than me!

Feeling like crap has already been brought up by other members. I want to make another point--you do realize that you are coming to discuss your research with a bunch of people who are off-kilter from being sleep-deprived, don't you?

Please tell me that you aren't surprised that when you play "devils advocate" with a bunch like us that we have an emotional response.

I have an excellent education. I'm normally above emotional responses that aren't backed by solid facts, but I do notice that when I brought up a few facts (i.e. the diabetes comment you made) you ignored it.

You have spent a lot of time re-posting and re-hashing words that have already been said. Have you found anyone to be interested in that? I think it was a futile endeavor. Because it seems most people either don't want to take sides (normally that is how I behave) or aren't interested in the minutia of detail that you seem to be.

You seem to be focused on defending yourself instead of moving forward. I release you from your own defense. I don't blame you for the argument, it was just a bad moment in time, and I'm NOT INTERESTED in the details of the how or why it went wrong. Simply put, I just want to move on and have my peaceful, happy, helpful haven of xpap information restored to me. I'm selfish that way.

And while I "think" your study sounds kinda crazy and like it won't be helpful to me, I see that others have chimed in their interest, so if it is of value to them, it must be of value to others, perhaps many others.

Having worked in research myself, I know how narrow a focus can be. Perhaps once you have your Ph.D. and move on to your own research something someone said here could help you to focus on something that someone here made you realize could be valuable. That is reason enough to want you to stay. I repeat: I don't want you to go away.

I also know from personal experience how difficult getting a Ph.D can be. It is often what I call a "stress test" and if you can make it through to the end, you are capable of coping with a lot of stress! So you probably aren't operating on all 8 cylinders either, am I right?

And someone commented that Ph.D. candidates don't often get to really choose to study what they really want, but have to pick from what their major professor is offering. Although usually you choose a major professor based on where your interests lie. So, it was unfair of me to say that you enjoy putting belts on people, perhaps that wasn't your first choice, but at this point you ARE committed to it until your thesis is done and approved, so you have to maintain the most positive outlook on your own research.

You are young yet and have a lot to learn about the world--so do we all. My only advice to you is to choose words carefully when dealing with sleep deprived folks in a bad mood and try not to get so defensive. Anyone could have re-read the posts to clarify anything. Everyone has the opportunity to read them if they want and make their own personal judgements about who went wrong where, you don't need to spend your personal time re-hashing it. It is all there for anyone to see! I'm not interested in going there, but maybe others are and more power to them.

I hope you will accept my humble apology. I'm not perfect. I'm capable of getting mad and not making the most sense just like any other human being. I am also capable of taking personal responsibility when I have been less than perfect. I'm also sorry it took me so long to stop seeing red and see things with a hint of reality.


Cyber Hugs,

Jen

I didn't get a chance to. Jen stormed off and created a thread which was basically used to attack me.

I'm sorry that happened. My intent wasn't to start a split_city bashing thread, but to mourn the loss of peace and vent frustration about how threads like this often go awry. At the time I was too angry to have the best judgement. I apologize for that (and have done) and will attempt to use better judgement in future.

Nevertheless, Jen, If you read this, I am very sorry if I offended you. My intention was not to cause any harm whatsoever. I apologise wholeheartedly.

Thank you. I appreciate that very much. And I believe you too.

Lets just forget it and try to play nice now, huh?

Jen

This is a nice neighborhood and we all hope that it can remain that way. It's good to see some fences being repaired. Just agreeing to disagree is seldom a bad thing.

I admit to being pretty objective in my thinking -- way TOO objective sometimes, according to my bride. That's probably why she likes to watch Judge Judy while I'm a lot more comfortable with a program about the building of Egyptian pyramids. Neither approach is better than the other, just different. Together, I think we've been a pretty good team for nearly forty years now. She and I agree on that point...I think.

Having said that, I'd like to comment on the research itself. I understand that abdominal fat places added pressure on internal organs, including the heart. That's one reason that doctors tell their patients to lose weight in order to improve their chances for survival. Placing added pressure on the heart makes it work much harder just to keep the juices flowing.

I'm overweight -- not quite obese but too close for comfort. I can definitely feel a difference in my breathing difficulty level at night when I've eaten a large meal late in the day. My apnea events tend to increase under those circumstances as well. Is that because of the additional pressure on my abdomen? Could be. It makes sense to me, but I'd like to know exactly what the mechanics are.

Good luck with your research, split_city. I hope that all such research, present and future, may provide data to help identify, treat and (hopefully) someday eradicate this awful condition with which we apneacs must deal.

Regards,

OCO

jennmary wrote: .....But I will make you an offer I made someone else recently. It will help you to better understand apnea.

I volunteer to hold a pillow over your face 42 times and hour, every hour, while you sleep. I will do this for a month. At the end of that month you can attempt to drive, and hold an intellegent conversation, also....you can try to carry on a relationship or go on a date. Maybe 2 months.
Then you can go on CPAP at a pressure of 14...maybe higher, with a full face mask. I will still put the pillow over your face....but only 4 times an hour, and I will make sure to do it a few extra times every once in a while to simulate a "bad" night.
Then you multiply how shitty you feel by about 100....as many of us have done this for wayyyyyyy longer than a month. While we are at it....you can wear a fat suit for the entire month or two....so you can also see how hard it is to carry it around after sleep deprivation.


I am always there to offer a helping hand...I am just giving that way.

• Jennmary,
  Please tell me you offered this to "Nancy Grace"!
  
  Connie

Ok, final word from me about this topic and then I (and hopefully) all of us will go back to being a productive and informative community for OSA patients, researchers, doctors and people simply interested in the disorder.

Jen, I very much appreciate and accept your apology. I do understand that our debate/discussion/argument was made when you were tired and grumpy. It happens to all of us at the best of times! I also acknowledge that the "dumb" comment was not in reference to me and I'm glad that was confirmed because I would feel horrible knowing I said that to anyone, and particularly to a person who suffers from a disorder that I have a keen interest in.

socknitster wrote: As they probably do many other members here--which may be why so many are jumping to my defense in one manner or another. While you may want to discuss facts--to many of us these are very personal and debilitating topics--hot buttons--if you will.

Feeling like crap has already been brought up by other members. I want to make another point--you do realize that you are coming to discuss your research with a bunch of people who are off-kilter from being sleep-deprived, don't you?

Please tell me that you aren't surprised that when you play "devils advocate" with a bunch like us that we have an emotional response.

Yes, I do realise this know. It was perhaps naive of me to enter such a forum expecting everybody to "accept,"......no, not so much as accept (because you are free to agree or disagree with it)...but more to perhaps "acknowledge" not only my work but the work of other researchers in the field of OSA. As is the case with any research, it takes time (and money, lots of it) and some patients are probably tired of hearing the same mumbo jumbo of results. The results of some studies (while important), may offend patients. For example, you are more likely to hear the correlation between weight and OSA than the results of studies looking at the abnormal airway anatomy and OSA or ventilatory instability and OSA. The media tends to focus on the weight issue. Certain overweight and healthy-weight OSA patients are likely to be sick of hearing this. Overweight people --> because of the sensitive nature of the issue and also the fact that many have lost weight, but their OSA remains with them. Healthy-weight people --> because obviously weight has nothing to do with their disorder and are looking/wanting/asking for answers to know why they suffer this disorder.

My other mistake was to assume that my interaction between myself and OSA patients on this forum would follow the same lines of what happens between an OSA patient and a sleep physician. That was perhaps my biggest mistake because I'm not a doctor and I cannot/should not provide any clinical advice because I don't have the training. However, some saw me as this "crazy" researcher who just wears a white lab coat, who comes up with half-arsed concoctions for studies with no medical background. This really hurt me the most because this is something I totally didn't expect to come across. I was very surprised and to be honest, worried that this was the belief for some OSA patients. I've studied hard to get where I am. I'm 24, a baby when it comes to both life and research. Nevertheless, I've done the hard yards. I did 3 years of a Bachelor of Science, a year of Honours, and now into my last year of a PhD. I haven't taken any time off from any of that. Five years of this time has been dedicated to researching OSA. I'm certainly not saying that I have more experience in this area compared to people in this forum, but it hurt me to think that just because I wasn't a doctor, my input was invalid.

Unfortunately, there are researchers out there who simply think of their subjects as guinea pigs, volunteers who come in to take part in their study, only to moved on and forgotten. Some researchers only care about the number of journal articles they publish instead of focussing on the real issue, the issue of patient care. Then again, it's not really their job to treat patients. Their job is to conduct research, and provide results, and inform the public and the doctors of these results so that we can all better understand the disorder/condition/disease of interest and hopiefully come up with more effective and less harmful treatments for patients. Nevertheless, I believe that researchers should also provide support to their subjects, not clinical support, but moral support. Perhaps open an ear to listen to the subjects instead of simply thinking of them as a number. Perhaps this was my intention on here. To provide an opportunity to inform you of the research currently going on in the field of OSA because I care about OSA patients. I simply wanted to update you about new and exciting projects. The ideas might be crazy to some, but that's science. The ideas might also be crazy to some because they believe that the hypothesis does not explain why they have OSA. I accept that, but I wish that you would accept that my research (and other peoples' research) is perhaps important to others because it just might explain why the airway collapses in them. At the end of th day, not all hypotheses are supported. It doesn't mean they are entirely wrong because I different subject group, or new data, or different equipment may produce alternative results. Yes, be sceptical if you must, but you shouldn't dismiss the studies without any knowledge. To be honest, there isn't a lot of research being conducted in terms of the physiology behind OSA. Much more work is put into the clinical side, i.e. patient management. Perhaps this is why a lot of people were sceptical about my work. Not a lot of it has been reported in the media, compared to say cancer.

socknitster wrote:For example, maybe I wouldn't have lost 10 years of my life to a fog, developed high blood pressure, gained 70 lbs and been on the verge of developing diabetes--IF THE VERY FIRST DOCTOR that I voiced my suspicians about anxiety, depression, fatigue and sleep had listened to me and taken me seriously instead of patting me on the head like a "hysterical female" or something. 10 years, split_city is a big chunk of your life to feel like crap. Many here suffered far longer than me!

All taken on board. I could only imagine the frustration that patients go through when doctors turn them away or misdiagnose them. I can't directly comment on your issue because I don't know what year it all began. However, not all doctors can be blamed because there wasn't a lot of data 20-30 years ago in regards to OSA. A lot of doctors simply weren't aware of the symptoms.

socknitster wrote: I have an excellent education. I'm normally above emotional responses that aren't backed by solid facts, but I do notice that when I brought up a few facts (i.e. the diabetes comment you made) you ignored it.

I apologise if it seemed as though I ignored it. I did take your comments on board and realised my mistake. Diabetes is not my area and I made a mistake correlating sugar intake and diabetes. Furthermore, I didn't comment because I was simply upset that I was being personally attacked by certain individuals on this board.

socknitster wrote:You have spent a lot of time re-posting and re-hashing words that have already been said. Have you found anyone to be interested in that? I think it was a futile endeavor. Because it seems most people either don't want to take sides (normally that is how I behave) or aren't interested in the minutia of detail that you seem to be.

I think a majority of this re-posting was in regards to the fact that certain posters kept suggesting I meant certain things i.e. people believed that I only thought OSA was an obesity problem. No matter how many times I said otherwise, they still accused me of it. From now on, if they still believe that's what I think, then so be it. My posts suggest otherwise and they can read them at their peril.

socknitster wrote:You seem to be focused on defending yourself instead of moving forward. I release you from your own defense. I don't blame you for the argument, it was just a bad moment in time, and I'm NOT INTERESTED in the details of the how or why it went wrong. Simply put, I just want to move on and have my peaceful, happy, helpful haven of xpap information restored to me. I'm selfish that way.

Again, it goes back to my previous paragraph and due to personal attacks towards me. I'll move on from this because it just isn't worth trying to defend myself against certain posters.

socknitster wrote:And while I "think" your study sounds kinda crazy and like it won't be helpful to me, I see that others have chimed in their interest, so if it is of value to them, it must be of value to others, perhaps many others.

Yep, as I said before, my hypothesis isn't aimed to answer why the airway collapses in all patients, therefore, my ideas might seem crazy to some. I'm focussed on a potential contributor in a subset of OSA patients.

socknitster wrote: Having worked in research myself, I know how narrow a focus can be. Perhaps once you have your Ph.D. and move on to your own research something someone said here could help you to focus on something that someone here made you realize could be valuable. That is reason enough to want you to stay. I repeat: I don't want you to go away

Sure. Some people on here have provided some useful information which might help me in my current line of work or possible future studies.

I admit, I came close to leaving this forum (I bet some of you are saying damn! ). It would have been disappointing to leave because all I wanted to do was to provide you with a link between yourselves and current research.

socknitster wrote: I also know from personal experience how difficult getting a Ph.D can be. It is often what I call a "stress test" and if you can make it through to the end, you are capable of coping with a lot of stress! So you probably aren't operating on all 8 cylinders either, am I right?

True. I'll keep "put-put-putting" away on whatever number of cylinders I have left!

socknitster wrote:And someone commented that Ph.D. candidates don't often get to really choose to study what they really want, but have to pick from what their major professor is offering. Although usually you choose a major professor based on where your interests lie. So, it was unfair of me to say that you enjoy putting belts on people, perhaps that wasn't your first choice, but at this point you ARE committed to it until your thesis is done and approved, so you have to maintain the most positive outlook on your own research.

It really depends on the lab you're in. There are some Honours students and PhD students who don't really get a choice to what to study (more so in regards to Honours students). However, following my Honours year, there were a series of studies I could have undertaken. I had been working on the abdominal compression study for 2 years. I felt there was unfinished business so I continued on with it. At the beginning, I was a bit sceptical about the idea of the abdominal compression study, however, I began to see that it might be plausible once I read the literature. Even after 3.5 years of undertaking the study, there are still many unanswered questions. However, I have slightly moved on from this study (for now) to concentrate on my next study, which doesn't involve any tight belts! We just hook patients up with many pieces of equipment and allow the patients to have obstructive events.

socknitster wrote:You are young yet and have a lot to learn about the world--so do we all. My only advice to you is to choose words carefully when dealing with sleep deprived folks in a bad mood and try not to get so defensive. Anyone could have re-read the posts to clarify anything. Everyone has the opportunity to read them if they want and make their own personal judgements about who went wrong where, you don't need to spend your personal time re-hashing it. It is all there for anyone to see! I'm not interested in going there, but maybe others are and more power to them.

Agreed and taken on board

socknitster wrote:I hope you will accept my humble apology. I'm not perfect. I'm capable of getting mad and not making the most sense just like any other human being. I am also capable of taking personal responsibility when I have been less than perfect. I'm also sorry it took me so long to stop seeing red and see things with a hint of reality.

I accept and as mentioned previously, I apologise too. Lets all move on and work together to fight this disorder!

OwlCreekObserver wrote: Good luck with your research, split_city. I hope that all such research, present and future, may provide data to help identify, treat and (hopefully) someday eradicate this awful condition with which we apneacs must deal.

Regards,

OCO

Thanks for your support. I'll provide results when they come to hand

No Rabid....I was not being sarcastic, not fully. That is the best way I can think to show someone what SA is like. The offer part might have involved a bit of sarcasm.....but what I was offering to do was not meant that way. It was meant as a comparison to SA. I believe we have gone over my educational background as well as my work in the medical field in the past, and I am not going to keep going over it for you.
I offered a genuine comparison. If you dont like it you know what you can kiss.

Linda.....I have no idea what shoe you are talking about. Honestly I dont really want to try to figure it out. I am tried and cranky and in a not very nice mood. I have nothing against you and have no wish to start another "pissing contest".

Spit-city, you are well aware that it was not your study that originally got me going. It was the comments you made about snoring being sleep apnea that got me. Here is a little back ground for those of you who dont know me really well. Maybe it will help you understand better why certian things might set me off.

I was an A student through college. I was a good kid, and am a responsible adult. I have spend my life trying to make my mother proud of me. I am 26 years old and I pay every single one of her bills. Rent, power, cell phone, car insurance, cable. I gave her a 2000 elantra when I got a new car.....free of charge. I also write her a check for $150 every 2 weeks just for spending. I buy all her toilet paper and soap, I buy all her groceries. She calls me a fat, lazy b****. When I told her I had sleep apnea she rolled her eyes at me and told me it was snoring and to stop making excuses for myself. I can not make my own mother understand what sleep apnea does to a person. I will not get into the other things she says to me because at the moment I really dont want to repeat them. It pisses me off to no end for someone to say that sleep apnea is snoring....can you understand why that might be?

Part 2. I spend 3 months in in-patient treatment for anorexia and bulimia as a teenager (not that long ago) and had it drilled into my head that if I didnt stop I would die. I was likely pretty close to it. I fought....and got past it. I am tempted every day to throw up. But I promised myself a long time ago that I would never go down that road again. I also never want my child to see that kind of behavior and think it is ok....it isnt. However now I am overweight after years of keeping a very normal weight. Now I have the same doctors telling me that if I dont lose the weight I am going to die (or get very very sick). I have been fighting an internal weight battle since I was 13 years old. Every time I turn around its there. Then someone brings weight into a topic that I thought was about nancy Graces stupidity.....and it was someone baming weight (the patient) all over again.

Then my anger just exploded when I saw that spit city had jumped on to this thread and used it to continue to demand proof.

Maybe I was to harsh....if that is the case I am sorry. I dont want to continue a stupid fight. But yes city....you are right, you are not a dr.....and not MY dr. My dr has spent 13 years earning my trust and respect. You havent spent 13 min....so no, I do run to your ideas with open arms and false hope. I do not see how that is wrong. I also do not see what is wrong with saying I dont think your methods are accurate or that I think your study is lame. As you said....it is my choice if I accept your findings as fact or not. Though maybe I could have done it in a less harsh way.

And yes......I did make that offer to Nancy Grace. I wonder if she will take me up on it, bet it would make a great story for her show.

Split_City,

That was a very nice, thought-provoking and illuminating post. Despite how worked up we both were 48 hours ago, I think we both took away a lot from the debate. For you: better insight into what an apnea patient suffers, the frustrations, and taboos, which will serve you well in your career, that has only just begun. Who knows one day you could belong to a group that comes up with something new to help solve this puzzle. That would be gratifiying!

For me, a truer picture of your real intent.

And for both of us, a lesson in internet etiquette 101.

They say that repetition is a good way to learn. I for one, hope I got it this time!

Jen

Wow, Jennmary,

That relationship is a real big problem. I don't even know what to say. Of course I'm curious about how such an arrangement could come about, but you can tell me that some other time when you aren't feeling so bad.

Unless your mother is incapacitated by some serious illness I am not sure why you aren't showing her the door. (Read on)

That said, my own mother and father, both of whome told me I wasn't smart while the teachers told me the opposite and told me I had no hope of going to college because of money (I got scholarships and am still paying for it 10 years later) both seem to think that I now owe them something.

Both of their children got degrees (which they barely contributed to--my parents completely cut me off when I decided to do a semester abroad in Costa Rica--they were protesting how dangerous it was) and I married a PhD and my sister married an MD/PhD. My mother has joked several times about how sweet it is going to be when we are taking care of HER. I don't know what she thinks our income is, but I'll bet she is wrong--our house is smaller than hers, but we don't live beyond our means like she does.

She has NOTHING saved for retirement and is mere years away. I've never done anything but silently left the room when she made those comments, or maybe laughed a nervous laugh, but I can't see me funding the high life for them when they did the bare minimum for me. And my husband and I are planning for our retirement now, not expecting 4-year-old Harry to "come thru for us."

Sounds like you are in the same boat (manipulative parents). They think/convinced you that you owe them. I actually know how easily parents can wheedle you into believing all kinds of crap. Some people have an altered sense of reality. Sounds like your fam is as toxic as my fam. Spend as little time with them as you can and try to get out of the financial situation b4 it brings you down.

Easier said than done, but geez, pm me and let me know if there is anything I can do for you!

I can't imagine supporting another household at 26--at 26 we were barely taking care of ourselves!

You have a lot of responsibility for someone of your age. You sure do shoulder it well. Thank goodness you were diagnosed young! I can't imagine how you managed. And you are very lucky not to have developed any of the comorbities yet--at 10 years older than you, (35) I had already started down that road with high blood pressure.

I gotta take my hat off to you, you must really have your shit together to pull all this off!

jen

jennmary,

Again, I thankyou for your detailed acounts of your life experiences. It is very brave of you to describe these events to a person that you do not know. I'm glad to hear that you are still fighting this battle, despite the the negativity from your mum.

I understand how my comments may have offended you and other posters. It was a mistake and I have apologised for it. I simply made a mistake in describing my thoughts on the matter. I went on to rephrase what I meant to say. I'm not going to go through it again because it has been posted for you and everybody to see. I hope what i said cleared things up.

jennmary wrote: Then my anger just exploded when I saw that spit city had jumped on to this thread and used it to continue to demand proof.

I simply asked for someone to inform me of what I said which was considered offensive. I then went on a bit further because I was being personally attacked over things I did not say. As I said in a previous post, I'm moving on from this. I discussed why I was hurt by these attacks. That is where I'll leave it.

jennmary wrote: Maybe I was to harsh....if that is the case I am sorry. I dont want to continue a stupid fight. But yes city....you are right, you are not a dr.....and not MY dr. My dr has spent 13 years earning my trust and respect. You havent spent 13 min

Nor did I come here to expect to earn trust as soon as I arrived. Nor did I expect to get personally attacked from the moment I joined up to this forum.

jennmary wrote: ....so no, I do run to your ideas with open arms and false hope.

Again, I never expected everyone to do so. I was providing some results from a particular study of mine. The results do not conclusively suggest that my hypothesis was right or wrong. However, they might suggest a possible contributor for OSA in a subset of patients. The results of the study do not provide hope for a new and exciting treatment. It was set up to look at one potential mechanism which may contribute to OSA. Nothing more, nothing less. Nevertheless, I introduced an alternative idea. That's what science is about.

jennmary wrote:I also do not see what is wrong with saying I dont think your methods are accurate or that I think your study is lame. As you said....it is my choice if I accept your findings as fact or not. Though maybe I could have done it in a less harsh way.

And I think that's what others have suggested. I really don't mind the criticism. It's how you go about it that matters. I work in an industry where your work is critiqued all the time. In my opinion, simply stating that a study is "stupid" or "bullshit" simply because you don't think the hypothesis relates to you is a bit harsh. But then again, that's my opinion on the matter. Others may disagree.

I was offended about how you and others criticised my work, just like you were offended with what I said. We both should now come away from this with a better understanding about where each other is coming from.

socknitster wrote:Split_City,

That was a very nice, thought-provoking and illuminating post. Despite how worked up we both were 48 hours ago, I think we both took away a lot from the debate. For you: better insight into what an apnea patient suffers, the frustrations, and taboos, which will serve you well in your career, that has only just begun. Who knows one day you could belong to a group that comes up with something new to help solve this puzzle. That would be gratifiying!

For me, a truer picture of your real intent.

And for both of us, a lesson in internet etiquette 101.

They say that repetition is a good way to learn. I for one, hope I got it this time!

Jen

Couldn't agree more

Why does everyone have to have a reason to think something is bullshit?

Either way.....I said I was sorry for HOW I said it....I am not going to keep saying it. I got that you were offended...I said I was sorry for how I said it....yet you went on to repeat that you were offended by how I said it. Im sorry. I said something in a mean way. Is that enough?

Thank you Jen....no my mother is not disabled or sick. I am just an idiot. I still cant bring myself to leave her with nothing. I did get fed up when I was 22. She lived in her car and in a homeless shelter for 2 months in 114 degree weather. I caved....I felt so guily and worried about her that I not only began to support her again...but even gave her extra luxurys to make up for it. She has 0 retirment savings and hasnt worked in years. I know I will be stuck taking care of her for the next 20 years as I am the only one of her kids that can remotely afford to do so. On anther topic.....if your hubby has any hottie phd friends I would be glad to say hello. lol [/quote]

jennmary wrote:Why does everyone have to have a reason to think something is bullshit?

Either way.....I said I was sorry for HOW I said it....I am not going to keep saying it. I got that you were offended...I said I was sorry for how I said it....yet you went on to repeat that you were offended by how I said it. Im sorry. I said something in a mean way. Is that enough?

Can we please move on and put our differences aside? That's all I ask. I'm pretty sure that a lot of posters on here are a bit over this discussion.

YES....That is exactly what I am trying to do. But you either need to graciously accept my apology or tell me to f*** off. Dont just expect me to keep saying it. You got what you wanted. So yes....can we please move on now? Or do you want to make sure you get the last word?

jennmary wrote:YES....That is exactly what I am trying to do. But you either need to graciously accept my apology or tell me to f*** off. Dont just expect me to keep saying it. You got what you wanted. So yes....can we please move on now? Or do you want to make sure you get the last word?

This really is a trick question because replying to this means I get the last word...

BUT YES! I accept your apology. I'm sssoooo over this discussion!