jennmary wrote: Jen likely didnt come back to your little fight because you truely do not deserve her insight.....and because nothing she says is going to sink into your head. In one ear out the other.....or in one ear twist a little then back out of the mouth.
First of all, two other people said pretty much what I said in regards to "death caused by OSA." There were:
tomjax wrote:
I do not think it is possible for a persons aiirway to collapse and then die because it would not open. Something else must happen.
and
Julie wrote:They don't die because the airway closes up and stays shut
This is what I said. The actual collapsed event doesn't cause death, but more the secondary effects.
Why was I targerted for this comment and not those above?
If people think I'm wrong, why can't they provide some evidence instead of accusing me of stuff I never said?
Second of all, I read everything Jen said. I took it on board. I provided an opinion about the topic. I even agreed saying that OSA may also cause all those co-morbidities. Again, how did it end in an arguement after that?
Then Jen went on and said this:
"That is just as crazy as you trying to
say that being fat causes all ills. I gained weight because I was too tired to move. I was thin when it started.
I wish you would give up the apnea patients are fat line, it is getting sooooooo old
I never said these things. I asked her to show me where I said these things. Isn't it wrong for someone to accuse you for something you didn't say?
jennmary wrote: In case you are not aware of this (and stupid people rarely are) weight is a very sensitive topic for a lot of people. People beat themselves up enough about their weight without someone basically saying that maybe it isnt the apnea.....maybe their blood pressure is high because they are fat. Are you so incredibly insensitive that you do not see how this could be something that would offend people?
Where have I ever said any of this? I understand that "weight" is a sensitive issue, but please show me where I have said anything that would indicate that I have been insensitive about the issue. If I did say something in that respect, I apologise wholeheartedly
jennmary wrote: Just so you know.....I am overweight. Got that way after 8 months of bedrest during my pregnancy with my daughter 3 years ago. I was on so many meds to keep from losing her that I am sure that helped with the weight gain. Then I broke my pelvis during delivery and spend another 3 months in bed and 6 without any impact or weight bearing activity. My daughter is 2 now and no I have not take off the weight. My blood pressure, cholesterol, and EKG were all what my doctor called "beautiful" as was my fasting and non fasting glucose tolerance test. Thyroid cascade came back normal and so did everything else we ran 3 months ago.
I thankyou four explaining that to me. I would never pretend to understand what you went through. I'm happy to hear that your blood pressure, cholestrol, EKG etc are all normal.
However, you must agree that being overweight is a risk factor for devloping those co-morbidities? It's common knowledge. It's been explained in a number of studies. It's talked about on the TV, in newspapers, on the radio. I never said that if you are overweight, you will have these other problems.
Therefore, I'm going to repeat myself again. It was stated by one of the posters on here that apneas cause these problems. While this might be the case, you cannot say this conclusively in an overweight person given that being overweight is a risk factor for high blood pressure, heart disease, diabetes etc. I was just describing an alternative. That's not to say that it's true and it's not to say that everyone, be it a healthy-weight or overweight individual will suffer from these co-morbidities or even OSA. I didn't tend to be insensitive about weight at all.
jennmary wrote:But if you are going to say that heart disease, stroke and high BP can be caused by obesity
Obesity is a risk factor for the development of these conditions. Do you disagree?
jennmary wrote: ......isnt it also true that obesity in itself can be caused by apnea and if that is the case then arent all of those things, obesity included really comortalities or sleep apnea? In some if not many cases?
I totally agree. I was discussing this with a patient the other day. There are OSA patients who developed OSA when they were healthy-weight. They became tired--> less physical activity --> started to put on weight --> more tired, depressed --> became sedentary --> put on more weight --> OSA got worse etc etc.
Furthermore, some then begin to develop hypertension, diabetes, heart disease. Now, you could say that the apnea caused these co-morbidities. However, obesity is a confounding factor so you cannot
conclusively state that the apnea causes these conditions.
On the otherhand, take a healthy-weight indididual without diabetes, heart disease, hypertension BEFORE they developed OSA. You could argue that OSA may have caused these conditions if they became apparent once the individual developed OSA. Again, there are confounding factors age, lifestyle, exercise, eating habits etc.
I'm just discussing the variables
jennmary wrote:You did say you were working on your PHD.....this implies to some if not most people that you someday intend to see patients. And you can add me to the list of people who want to know if that happens.....I would gladly move to the other side of the country to avoid your practice.
I already do see patients. They are my research subjects. I very much appreciate the time and effort they put in to helping us out. I have had nothing but positive feedback from all the patients I have spoken to in regards to helping them understand their condition.
I did see that Jen started another thread talking about me. She said that someone called her "dumb" tonight. I would be very upset if she was referring to me because I DID NOT say that at all.