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With respect, whilst some exhaled breath may enter the first 10-20 cm of the hose, I doubt that any exhaled breath gets anywhere near the chamber.

Davidmcc wrote:With respect, whilst some exhaled breath may enter the first 10-20 cm of the hose, I doubt that any exhaled breath gets anywhere near the chamber.

Also, doesn't most of the exhaled breath escape through the holes provided on or near the nose mask? So most of the exhaled breath goes out into the air anyway, right?

Hello all,

I would not EVER put anything but distilled water in my humidifier -- I had enough trouble getting the residue from filtered tap water out of the humidifier. With that said, I have to comment on the cleaning issue vs. the pressure that you run at. This may sound round about, but bear with me!

While I was in Hawaii, I had some pretty bad rainout (high relative humidity, cool room, February with no heat). At that time I was on a straight CPAP -- ResMed S7 Lightweight w/ humidifier. The first night it woke me up and I took the mask off, held it up for the water to run back into the tank, and put it on -- didn't work because my pressure of 14 did not allow the water to run back into the tank. I had to turn the machine off before raising the hose, and it worked. I think that those of us running at higher pressures (I was titrated at 14cm/H20) don't really have to worry about airborne contaminants floating upstream against all the pressure to get into our humidifiers. I don't know about lower pressures. My minimum on my auto is 10, so I strongly believe that anything is staying in the mask and exhausting quickly, so that washing the mask should be enough. YMMV

I also think that many of the RT's and sleep docs are looking at contamination from a hospital point of view, and possibly with multiple people using the equipment. With that scenario the cleaning and sterilization rituals would be quite different from a single user at home.

Now that I think about it, running the water back into the tank was probably not such a great idea from a contamination viewpoint, but it was all my muddled brain could come up with in the middle of the night. I lived through it, so I guess it wasn't too bad.

I now have a PB420E with the matching humidifier. (Love it!) I top up my humidifier each night with distilled water, and it rarely goes completely dry here in California, even set on max. I empty and dry it out occasionally -- if I have a trip or doctor's appointment and need to transport my machine, otherwise it has water in it. I always disconnect the APAP from the humidifier, take the hose off and turn the humidifier off as I get out of bed, so that the humidity doesn't damage the APAP. Works for me!

Sleep well,

Jane

Hi airguest and others,

I need a bit of clarification on this subject.

airhead, you said you put salt + lemon alka seltzer in the tank. Do you use just any salt as one poster on an earlier thread said kosher salt. Also what exactly does this do for you ie relieve congestion, just smell good and help you sleep better or what. Does it leave a residue in the tank and how often do you clean it? Would really appreciate it if you would elaborate a little on this. I love secret receipes especially if they work!

My next question was sort of answered by other posters who said how could anything go back up the hose with all the air blowing. That's kind of what I thought which now leads me to another question, and here comes a long story.

I wash all my equipment once a week only & then soak in vinegar/water. Others feel no need to wash the water chamber as only distilled water and filtered air enter. This makes a whole lot of sence to me and would save me some time on my weekly ritual. So if I go with that, why then not wash the hose as well because I don't see how it can dirty either.

OK whose first?

Thanks for any help.

Bob F

SleepyTimeGal wrote:air is blowing from your cpap thru the humidifier, thru your hose and mask to you-and when you exhale "stuff" does go back thru the mask, tubing, and back to the humidifier chamber. SleepyTimeGal

I thought the exhaled air escaped through the exhaust of the mask. How can it go back to the humidifier chamber against the pressure from the machine
I don't dispute the need for hygiene and sensible precaution, but is there a risk that you don't have any resistance to everyday bacteria if you go too far with the precautions? I'm sure I breathe in far worse things during the day when packed in with other people in the train/bus/lift.

It is VERY easy for exhaled air to get back in there. Think about the process. You put your mask on, then you turn the machine on. Were you breathing while putting the mask on? Probably. Also, think about the Auto-on machines. They work by sending your exhaled breath then turn on.

I do agree that while in use, it would be very difficult for exhaled breath to go anywhere except in the mask tho.

Ok, a few thoughts. First, distilled water is naturally agressive. That single oxygen molecule (H2O) likes to bond with all sorts of things. In some cases it can act as an airway irritant. A normal saline solution is best for your nose and sinuses. You can make your own like this:

Saline Recipe
To six oz. of clean pure water (distilled or purified water may be preferable in some areas) add: 1/4 teaspoon plain, non-iodized salt, and 1/8 teaspoon baking soda and stir until dissolved. Don't allow mixed solutions to get old and stale before use.

The issue of cleaning should only problematic if your humidifier runs dry before morning, "baking-on" any precipitated salts. The vinegar solution should be all that is required to clean the chamber if things get cruddy.

Lemon Alka-Seltzer also contains a lot of "extras" that you might not want to snort and can surely create resdue. Asprin, lots of citric acid, free carbondioxide, aspertame and assorted preservatives. Drink it, if you like but I wouldn't snort it.

Anyway, thats my 2 cents.

As I am not aware of my airways being irritated I will continue using only distilled water and would, with respect, suggest making up saline receipes at home only be undertaken under advice obtained due to a real problem of irritation being diagnosed.

CPAP.COM LISTS SEVERAL ARMOA THERAPY OPTIONS FOR USE WITH CPAP MACHINES. FROM WHAT THE MANUFACTURERS STATE, THERE IS NO DAMAGE TO THE MACHINE WHEN USING THESE PRODUCTS. SEVERAL OTHER SITES FOR CPAP MASKS AND EQUIPMENT ALSO LIST THESE ITEMS FOR SALE. I THINK THAT WOULD BE THE SAFEST BET WHEN WANTING TO ADD SOMETHING TO A HUMIDIFIER.

SleepyTimeGal wrote:
Also-if water is left in the chamber, and the chamber is knocked or pulled over, and water gets into your cpap-oops-malfunction of cpap.

Why take chances?? I pass on info I have heard from clinicians and resp. therapists about cpap care. As many horror stories I have heard of and read about, there are qualified, knowledgeable, and experienced clincians out there.

Hope you all stay rested and healty.

SleepyTimeGal

I wanted to add, I sell CPAP machines and have had several patients have to replace their cpap machines due to water damage. Insurance will not cover the replacement if it is user damage-and leaving water in the humidifier, then moving the machine(either yourself, your spouse, your children, your animals knock it off etc) will ruin the machines digital boards. At from $800 on up, its not worth taking the chance. Also, most machines, for those of you who dont dump, have the option to just remove the water resivoir from the main unit-atleast that can save your machine!

LSEVENISH wrote:CPAP.COM LISTS SEVERAL ARMOA THERAPY OPTIONS FOR USE WITH CPAP MACHINES. FROM WHAT THE MANUFACTURERS STATE, THERE IS NO DAMAGE TO THE MACHINE WHEN USING THESE PRODUCTS. SEVERAL OTHER SITES FOR CPAP MASKS AND EQUIPMENT ALSO LIST THESE ITEMS FOR SALE. I THINK THAT WOULD BE THE SAFEST BET WHEN WANTING TO ADD SOMETHING TO A HUMIDIFIER.

That's because the product doesn't go in your humidifier.

Bottom Line...only use water in your humidifier, don't add anything to it.

The Dreamer.