[Equipment Issue] Airsense 11 rainout issue

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chemesherpa
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[Equipment Issue] Airsense 11 rainout issue

Post by chemesherpa » Wed Jun 26, 2024 6:30 pm

Hello,

Just replaced my old Airsense 10 about 5 days ago with a brand new in box Airsense 11.

On my Airsense 10 I had myself in CPAP mode with a setting of 12 cmH2O. I had my climate control set to manual with the humidification set to max (8) and then tube temperature set to max (86 degF). I use a Full Face F20 Airtouch mask.

I got to these climate settings because I have very bad allergies and I found that higher humidity tended to help. Additionally, I tend to mouth breath so the higher humidity helps a little bit to keep the back of my throat from burning due to dry cold air.

I just got my Airsense 11 and duplicated all of the settings, however for multiple nights now I have excperienced rainout and condensation on the inside of my tube (droplets spray on my face in the middle of the night and wake me up) and on the inside of the elbow and mask.

I NEVER had that problem on my airsense 10 and have identical settings, setup , room temperature, room humidity, etc...

Now with the Airsense 11 every night I get woken up after about 4 to 5 hours of sleep by droplets spraying on me.

I have even now tried putting the insulated tube cover over my heated tube, and it helped a little but not much. Ultimately still the same issue.

I did notice through a lot of testing that I can feel the tube heat up initially (similar to the way I could feal my old airsense 10) but after waking up in the middle of the night, the tube was ambient temperature (cold). It almost seems like the heated tube works for a few hours and then turns off and then eventually condensation occurs on the tube due to lack of elevated tempearature.

I have tried adding the insulated cover, putting the tube heat setting to auto then back to manual 86degF and then power cycling, and i have lowered my humidity setting to the point where it woke me up due to burning throat. Despite all of these I am still getting condensation and rainout.
I did also try running in auto/auto but again i woke up due to dry burning throat and stuffed nose rather than rainout so replaced one evil with another.

I am not getting any error messages on the machine. When I wake up and feel that the tube is cold, the machine still recognizes that a climateline heated tube is connected and the setting is still at the max. There is still usually about 25% tank level after 4 to 5 hours so its not like it is running low and carring droplets through just due to air velocity.

I know others have had similar issues here on the forum and looking back at old threads I never found anyone that had a resolution to the problem or they never posted a follow up.

I am currently in contact with my DME about replacing the tube and or machine or possibly even switching back to an airsense 10.

Has anyone else still been experiencing this and if so what did you do to fix it?

Thanks in advance,
Chemesherpa

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D.H.
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Re: [Equipment Issue] Airsense 11 rainout issue

Post by D.H. » Wed Jun 26, 2024 6:53 pm

You said everything is identical. The one question is whether the machine is lower than your head. You might have been "getting away with that" on the old machine, but you're no on the new one.

Also, assuming that the heat is on all night (which you indicated might not be the case), it is of no benefit to cover the hose.

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chemesherpa
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Re: [Equipment Issue] Airsense 11 rainout issue

Post by chemesherpa » Wed Jun 26, 2024 8:32 pm

yes the machine is physically lower than my head and I ensured that I have the hose angled upward as well just to make a tendency to help drain back.

i figured the hose cover would just aid a bit to help retain some heat on the walls of the tube and shield from any ouside influence like hvac etc. was thinking that should only help.

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Pugsy
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Re: [Equipment Issue] Airsense 11 rainout issue

Post by Pugsy » Wed Jun 26, 2024 8:49 pm

Any chance you are over filling the water chamber and what you are getting is water being blown into the hose as the air goes over the water in the chamber?

My AirCurve 10 water chamber will do that if I fill the chamber too much. I have no idea about the AirSense 11 though.
I have got that cold shower from it. Wasn't condensation in the hose though. It was water being blown into the hose and eventually being blown out the vent holes.

It is the only thing I can think of since you covered all the other bases with the heated tube temp and the humidity setting.

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chemesherpa
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Re: [Equipment Issue] Airsense 11 rainout issue

Post by chemesherpa » Wed Jun 26, 2024 8:59 pm

well i dont usually get woken up until about the 5 hour mark, by that time the tank is about 25% full. If it was from being full and droplet carrying over, i would figure that would tend to happen at the begining of the night and with everything below my head i would think it should drain back into the tank or go all the way to my face and wake me up early.

There is also excessive condensation inside the actual mask and elbow...

i really think it is a problem with the heated tube... it is like it runs for 5 hours and then decides to turn off... then in no time you get rainout...

my DME is in contact with Resmed now but it is just very frustrating... i have seen others have problems too but it is usually associated with an error message which I am not experiencing...

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Re: [Equipment Issue] Airsense 11 rainout issue

Post by Pugsy » Wed Jun 26, 2024 9:26 pm

It is odd that the hose seems to heat as it should for part of the night a seems to fail at the end of the night.
Normally if a heated hose is going to fail it fails all night and not just part of the night.

Trying a new different heated hose is what I would do next and go from there depending on what happens.'

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vandownbytheriver
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Re: [Equipment Issue] Airsense 11 rainout issue

Post by vandownbytheriver » Wed Jun 26, 2024 9:48 pm

The 11 has a heated hose connection problem... examine how the hose is connected, make sure it's not pulled to the side. Here's good old beloved Uncle Nick describing the issue:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAs01WRPtGk

There appear to be other heater-related issues with the 11 series as well, follow the links in the video. Sorry you're having these problems with your new machine.

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chemesherpa
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Re: [Equipment Issue] Airsense 11 rainout issue

Post by chemesherpa » Thu Jun 27, 2024 6:37 am

vandownbytheriver wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2024 9:48 pm
The 11 has a heated hose connection problem... examine how the hose is connected, make sure it's not pulled to the side. Here's good old beloved Uncle Nick describing the issue:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAs01WRPtGk

There appear to be other heater-related issues with the 11 series as well, follow the links in the video. Sorry you're having these problems with your new machine.
I think this may be along the lines of what's happening... Although I don't get the error message and my machine doesn't auto stop. I did try simulating the side tugging and got the hose connection to "click" out at the connection to the machine, but it never leaked from there.

So last night I tried humidity 6, tube temp 86, no cover... Rain after 6.5 hours .. so extended somewhat but still ultimately rain out.

I also tried initially going to sleep with climate and tube set to auto... Woke up about 30 minutes after falling asleep with burning nostrils and back of throat. So that was a no go as well...

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Conrad
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Re: [Equipment Issue] Airsense 11 rainout issue

Post by Conrad » Thu Jun 27, 2024 7:41 am

Are you seeing moisture in the heated tubing or is it all in the elbow and the mask?

I occasionally have this issue if I'm sleeping in a 'cold' room (camping or the bedroom with windows open when it's cold outside). No moisture collected in the heated tube but plenty in the elbow, the mask, and mask tubing.
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chemesherpa
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Re: [Equipment Issue] Airsense 11 rainout issue

Post by chemesherpa » Thu Jun 27, 2024 10:42 am

It's in both places

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chemesherpa
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Re: [Equipment Issue] Airsense 11 rainout issue

Post by chemesherpa » Sun Jun 30, 2024 10:46 am

Well just to report an update...

Dme gave me a new heated hose, that seemed to fix the issue for the most part ...

I have condensation inside my mask and elbow but not the tube anymore...

I now have my tube set to 86, humidity 6, cover on the tube.

Still just strange to me that I didn't have condensation problems with my mask with my air sense 10 and I had it set to 8 for humidity... I'm just going to chalk it up to the fact that the as11 has a stronger humidifier? A better heating plate?... IDK but there's definitely something different

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robbob2112
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Re: [Equipment Issue] Airsense 11 rainout issue

Post by robbob2112 » Mon Jul 01, 2024 2:29 pm

The AS 11 has a weaker blower motor and it has connection problems because of the stupid decision to get rid of the 90 degree turn when existing and not offering an adapter to turn the heated hoses.

The humidification tank heater plate is now round and matches the tank plate better. The as10 series had a square plate on tank and machine until recently. IMO the as11 puts more humidity in the air at a given setting than the 10 did. So you might try lowering the setting one step at a time to see if that helps.


As a backup you can send your old unit in to have a new blower put in and checked over/seals replaced/calibrated - (there are other places as well)
https://www.advanscpap.com/cpap-repair

chemesherpa
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Re: [Equipment Issue] Airsense 11 rainout issue

Post by chemesherpa » Tue Jul 02, 2024 8:25 am

robbob2112 wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2024 2:29 pm
The AS 11 has a weaker blower motor and it has connection problems because of the stupid decision to get rid of the 90 degree turn when existing and not offering an adapter to turn the heated hoses.

The humidification tank heater plate is now round and matches the tank plate better. The as10 series had a square plate on tank and machine until recently. IMO the as11 puts more humidity in the air at a given setting than the 10 did. So you might try lowering the setting one step at a time to see if that helps.


As a backup you can send your old unit in to have a new blower put in and checked over/seals replaced/calibrated - (there are other places as well)
https://www.advanscpap.com/cpap-repair
Totally agree with you on all points and yes, I'm now down to 6 on humidity setting and think I can deal with 5, just trying to slowly adjust to it.

I also got a cspring to keep my tank topped off in the night to make sure I don't run out of water in the night like I have been.

I might look at getting my old one fixed up like you suggested. I was mainly worried about the foam degradation due to my so clean use... Now that they changed the design to only involve the tube and mask I'm not as worried.

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Re: [Equipment Issue] Airsense 11 rainout issue

Post by robbob2112 » Tue Jul 02, 2024 9:11 am

chemesherpa wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2024 8:25 am
Totally agree with you on all points and yes, I'm now down to 6 on humidity setting and think I can deal with 5, just trying to slowly adjust to it.

I also got a cspring to keep my tank topped off in the night to make sure I don't run out of water in the night like I have been.

I might look at getting my old one fixed up like you suggested. I was mainly worried about the foam degradation due to my so clean use... Now that they changed the design to only involve the tube and mask I'm not as worried.
When I was mouth breathing/leaking a lot I just kept a second tank on the nightstand and swapped out when I woke up at 3am. Was simple until I fixed my leaks and learned to keep my mouth shut. Now I go through 1/2 a tank at night.

Yeah, during service they can change all of the foam as they clean. Seems like it was about $220 for just the motor and about another $50 for everything else. If you include a return shipping label in the box it is much cheaper than what they charge as return shipping.

If nothing else having a spare fully fuctional machine around is a comfort.

OH, I do recall, I measured the round plate verse the older square plate when the new version 10 tanks came out. The round version has about 12% more area than the square one does. Counter intuative I know but it is true.

Interested in a brand new sealed heated hose, a slightly used hose, and a slightly used tank for the AS11? My wife tried to use it and just couldn't stand to wear it. The used items have 4 hours total time on them and I cleaned them when I put them away. Make me an offer and pay shipping, DM me if interested wth the offer and your address.