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Re: OT: sleep study
Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2023 5:42 pm
by lazarus
Steerpike58 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 4:57 pm
Not sure what gave that impression;
I sincerely apologize for my bad wording and bad punctuation.
My phrase "as Steerpike58 said he planned to do" was meant to refer merely to your "considering requesting other similar meds." I did not mean in any way to imply thay you planned on hiding anything from your doctor. I was explaining to RogerSC why a history of thought-impairment from similar meds would, according to my understanding of the document I referenced, be a behavioral issue any prescribing clinician would want to be aware of, and especially so in the context of a sleep study.
It is always a tradeoff-judgement-call to have someone
without a history such as yours to take any med before a sleep study that is not usually taken, but someone with a history of such meds making them get caught in a loop in a way that impairs sleep would
especially want to make that known for reasons of safety and to preserve the usefulness of the test involving what should be, to the extent possible, a typical night of sleep.
Please accept my sincere apology. My bad.
I will edit my previous post if you want me to.
Re: OT: sleep study
Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2023 4:37 am
by ozij
Steerpike58 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 4:57 pm
But now, I'm retired, and I don't drink (alcohol or coffee!) and my life is really quite stress-free, but this issue of going to bed and having a horrible night, tossing and turning, solving stupid, illogical, insoluble problems, continues. Not all the time, but I can't seem to find a pattern when it does and does not happen.
Sounds like you could benefit from cognitive behavioral therapy focused on sleep onset insomnia.
Also RobySue's blog
http://adventures-in-hosehead-land.blogspot.com/ RobySue is a forum member - sometime here sometimes not. She had terrible insomnia, her blog is worth reading. Old -- but good.
Maybe you could break the connection between "solving stupid problems" and "falling asleep" by doing the following:
Whenever you catch yourself doing that, get out of bed, go a different place in you home, and focus on attempting to solve those problems that have been bugging you. When you're really sick and tired of that futile thinking, take yourself to be and try to visualize something pleasant. And if your mind starts with those problems again, tell it: OK, if that's what you want, this in not the place for it. We're getting out of bed to that other place, and do that. repeat as many times as necessary.
Any chance you pre-sleep rumination is related to having read of some of the following scientist whose subconscious minds provided answers to problems?
(no need to answer that question of course...)
https://www.famousscientists.org/7-grea ... in-dreams/
Re: OT: sleep study
Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2023 1:29 pm
by RogerSC
lazarus wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 5:42 pm
Steerpike58 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 4:57 pm
Not sure what gave that impression;
I sincerely apologize for my bad wording and bad punctuation.
My phrase "as Steerpike58 said he planned to do" was meant to refer merely to your "considering requesting other similar meds." I did not mean in any way to imply thay you planned on hiding anything from your doctor. I was explaining to RogerSC why a history of thought-impairment from similar meds would, according to my understanding of the document I referenced, be a behavioral issue any prescribing clinician would want to be aware of, and especially so in the context of a sleep study.
It is always a tradeoff-judgement-call to have someone
without a history such as yours to take any med before a sleep study that is not usually taken, but someone with a history of such meds making them get caught in a loop in a way that impairs sleep would
especially want to make that known for reasons of safety and to preserve the usefulness of the test involving what should be, to the extent possible, a typical night of sleep.
Please accept my sincere apology. My bad.
I will edit my previous post if you want me to.
I wasn't arguing against discussing prior experiences with sleep aids (bizarre thoughts, specifically) with doctors. I was pointing out that the way that I read the passage in question, it wasn't directly addressing that aspect. Also to point out that "complex sleep behavior" isn't "complex sleep apnea".
So please put me in the full disclosure and discussion camp. It's important that your medical advisors know your full history so that they can help you appropriately.
Re: OT: sleep study
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2023 12:02 pm
by Steerpike58
lazarus wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 5:42 pm
Steerpike58 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 4:57 pm
Not sure what gave that impression;
I sincerely apologize for my bad wording and bad punctuation.
My phrase "as Steerpike58 said he planned to do" was meant to refer merely to your "considering requesting other similar meds." I did not mean in any way to imply thay you planned on hiding anything from your doctor. I was explaining to RogerSC why a history of thought-impairment from similar meds would, according to my understanding of the document I referenced, be a behavioral issue any prescribing clinician would want to be aware of, and especially so in the context of a sleep study.
It is always a tradeoff-judgement-call to have someone
without a history such as yours to take any med before a sleep study that is not usually taken, but someone with a history of such meds making them get caught in a loop in a way that impairs sleep would
especially want to make that known for reasons of safety and to preserve the usefulness of the test involving what should be, to the extent possible, a typical night of sleep.
Please accept my sincere apology. My bad.
I will edit my previous post if you want me to.
No problem; I just wanted to clarify my position, and we seem all clear now!
Re: OT: sleep study
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2023 12:18 pm
by Steerpike58
ozij wrote: ↑Tue Sep 19, 2023 4:37 am
Steerpike58 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 4:57 pm
But now, I'm retired, and I don't drink (alcohol or coffee!) and my life is really quite stress-free, but this issue of going to bed and having a horrible night, tossing and turning, solving stupid, illogical, insoluble problems, continues. Not all the time, but I can't seem to find a pattern when it does and does not happen.
Sounds like you could benefit from cognitive behavioral therapy focused on sleep onset insomnia.
Also RobySue's blog
http://adventures-in-hosehead-land.blogspot.com/ RobySue is a forum member - sometime here sometimes not. She had terrible insomnia, her blog is worth reading. Old -- but good.
Maybe you could break the connection between "solving stupid problems" and "falling asleep" by doing the following:
Whenever you catch yourself doing that, get out of bed, go a different place in you home, and focus on attempting to solve those problems that have been bugging you. When you're really sick and tired of that futile thinking, take yourself to be and try to visualize something pleasant. And if your mind starts with those problems again, tell it: OK, if that's what you want, this in not the place for it. We're getting out of bed to that other place, and do that. repeat as many times as necessary.
Any chance you pre-sleep rumination is related to having read of some of the following scientist whose subconscious minds provided answers to problems?
(no need to answer that question of course...)
https://www.famousscientists.org/7-grea ... in-dreams/
Thanks for the references - I'll take a look at them.
Regarding "Whenever you catch yourself doing that, get out of bed, go a different place in you home, and focus on attempting to solve those problems that have been bugging you. " - I have, on occasion, caught myself 'solving stupid problems' and gotten out of bed, and waited for a while before returning, to break the cycle, and to refocus my mind on 'better things' (and this may work, but obviously disrupts the sleep cycle). But the idea of 'attempting to solve those problems' ... doesn't really apply - they are so illogical, that I 'know' they can't be solved; I'm even aware of that while in bed. I thought of a few examples since my earlier post. Imagine trying to answer 'what color is a circle', or 'why is my desktop computer not charging' (it doesn't have a battery) - they simply don't have an answer, they are non-sensical. And that's what makes them go on-and-on in my head - they can't be solved. What's weird is, during the day / waking hours, I'm a thoroughly logical engineer!
Re: OT: sleep study
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2023 3:26 pm
by lazarus
Steerpike58 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 12:18 pm
they are so illogical, that I 'know' they can't be solved; I'm even aware of that while in bed. I thought of a few examples since my earlier post. Imagine trying to answer 'what color is a circle', or 'why is my desktop computer not charging' (it doesn't have a battery) - they simply don't have an answer, they are non-sensical.
I have experienced similar sensations/thoughts, usually at sleep initiation, occasionally in the middle of the night following an awakening. It seems to be related to stress or to a few nights of bad sleep or insufficient sleep, for me.
Some docs, if pressed, might file the experiences as being related to a very mild (subclinical) form of hypnagogic hallucination, in which you enter an interrupting form of REM as you enter, or perhaps just slightly before you enter, early stages of sleep. More severe forms of it can be common with narcolepsy and Parkinson's, but I think many people with common everyday sleep issues can occasionally have such brain misfires and hiccups when they have a particularly bumpy ride down an unusually prolonged runway into sleep:
"Sleep-related hallucinations are common in the general population and can take various forms. . . . Hypnagogic hallucinations tend to have no long-term side effects. They often happen because of an underlying medical condition
or during periods of poor sleep and stress."--
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/321070
Underline attribute added by me.
Best wishes, and good sleep to you!
And apologies to Zonker for abusing and hijacking his OT thread by helping to drag it too far
on topic.
Re: OT: sleep study
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2023 4:32 pm
by zonker
lazarus wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 3:26 pm
And apologies to Zonker for abusing and hijacking his OT thread by helping to drag it too far
on topic.
nah. actually whoda thunk a topic *I* introduced would be helpful?
Re: OT: sleep study
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2023 5:54 pm
by lazarus
Forums can be confusing; it's never easy to know when to rail and when to derail.
Re: OT: sleep study
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2023 6:00 pm
by zonker
lazarus wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 5:54 pm
Forums can be confusing; it's never easy to know when to rail and when to derail.
