Aerophagia and bievel machine

dear diary,

i have decided to embrace in full the notion of back sleeping as it gives me relief from discomfort in my biceps (from laying on my side for so long) AND relief from belching. here is the results of two nights of my wild and crazy scheme-





fairly happy with the first as it has a lower ahi. slept fairly soundly to boot.

while the ahi is shite on the second night, i slept even longer than the first night though not as well treated. i believe the second night's result may be due to my kit getting kitty whompas on me. of course, i use jay's scunci method and last night it had started sliding about. so that may or may not have anything to do with it.

i don't know for certain, but it seems to me i need to bump up my epap. as i don't know how high i should bump based on one night, i'm electing to raise it from 13.8 to 14.2.

i shall see what tomorrow brings.

thank you diary for letting me record this.

Based on night 2, you're right about the EPAP - those apnea clusters started when your pressure dropped.
But it's just one night and could be a coincidence. And it nowhere near the train reck you had when EPAP was 11.4
Any special reason to trust night 2 and not night 1 and therefore make changes based on it?

ozij wrote: ↑

Tue May 23, 2023 8:16 pm

Based on night 2, you're right about the EPAP - those apnea clusters started when your pressure dropped.
But it's just one night and could be a coincidence. And it nowhere near the train reck you had when EPAP was 11.4
Any special reason to trust night 2 and not night 1 and therefore make changes based on it?

not entirely sure. is there a different change i should make based on night one?

or are you saying according to night 1, i shouldn't be making changes and should see how the next few nights go?

by gum, i think i'll set it back to where i had it and give it a go.

whatever the results, i'll post tomorrow.

not because i expect spectacular results, but just so i have it posted. if that makes sense.

zonker wrote: ↑

Tue May 23, 2023 9:17 pm

ozij wrote: ↑

Tue May 23, 2023 8:16 pm

Based on night 2, you're right about the EPAP - those apnea clusters started when your pressure dropped.
But it's just one night and could be a coincidence. And it nowhere near the train reck you had when EPAP was 11.4
Any special reason to trust night 2 and not night 1 and therefore make changes based on it?

not entirely sure. is there a different change i should make based on night one?

or are you saying according to night 1, i shouldn't be making changes and should see how the next few nights go?

by gum, i think i'll set it back to where i had it and give it a go.

whatever the results, i'll post tomorrow.

not because i expect spectacular results, but just so i have it posted. if that makes sense.

Yes, I'm saying night 1 looks very good - if you keep it like that that, maybe it will be repeated? Maybe not. I see no harm in leaving it like that - because we really don't know which of the two nights on that setting is representative, and which is an outlier.

ozij wrote: ↑

Tue May 23, 2023 9:32 pm

Yes, I'm saying night 1 looks very good - if you keep it like that that, maybe it will be repeated? Maybe not. I see no harm in leaving it like that - because we really don't know which of the two nights on that setting is representative, and which is an outlier.

this is one of the many valuable things about the forum. one shows a chart and gets a perspective that one didn't really consider.

right, staying the course it is.

dear diary-

hoo-boy! here's last night-



while disappointed with the ahi, i can see some light here. again last night my scunci rig and all decided to go slipping around my noggin. the light is that i can change one little thing and see if there is an improvement.

i've used scuncis for years. i'm in the habit of using a freshly laundered/dried scunci every third night. while scuncis work well, they do lose some elasticity over time. the washing routine helps get some of that "tightness" back for a while. doesn't last forever though. eventually i go out and by a new batch.

as it happens, wednesday is the time to change out anyway. so i'll be able to tell with tomorrow's chart how the swap out worked.

now i don't want to borrow trouble (who? ME??) but i can't help but wonder if sleeping on my back is exerting a different pressure on the scunci and thus causing it to slide around more.

but as scarlett o'hara said i'll think about that tomorrow.

zonker wrote: ↑

Wed May 24, 2023 11:13 am

now i don't want to borrow trouble (who? ME??) but i can't help but wonder if sleeping on my back is exerting a different pressure on the scunci and thus causing it to slide around more.

That's possible.
But an alternative explanation is that when those apnea clusters start, you're fighting the scunci in order to breath, and that's what causes it to slip...
I'd expect a randomly slipping and sliding scunci to show some random leaks - and that's not happening.
Time - and experimentation - will tell.
How are you feeling?

The therapy's aim is good sleep - sometimes we have to be permissive about higher AHI - and you can see in both of the higher AHI nights that the machine can bring your pressure up quickly - and that most of the time, you're doing quite well at the lower pressure.

Do you have an O2 ring? The question of what happens to your oxygen when you have these apnea clusters is relevant if you want to consider being permissive about letting them happen.

ozij wrote: ↑

Wed May 24, 2023 9:03 pm

zonker wrote: ↑

Wed May 24, 2023 11:13 am

now i don't want to borrow trouble (who? ME??) but i can't help but wonder if sleeping on my back is exerting a different pressure on the scunci and thus causing it to slide around more.

That's possible.
But an alternative explanation is that when those apnea clusters start, you're fighting the scunci in order to breath, and that's what causes it to slip...
I'd expect a randomly slipping and sliding scunci to show some random leaks - and that's not happening.
Time - and experimentation - will tell.
How are you feeling?

a little logy upon waking up but it dissipates quickly. and a little tired throughout the day. oddly enough, i slept through that rough patch that was going on for the first four hours or so. then just sleeping an hour at a time for the rest of it.

yeah, i thought i'd see some leaks too.

will change the scunci and nothing else and see what happens tonight.

thanks for your help so far.

dear diary-

here's last nights sleep-



not much change. felt logy and "headachey" this morning.

however, the scunci change kept things in place, so that's a positive. will stay the course and see what tomorrow brings.

ozij wrote: ↑

Wed May 24, 2023 9:03 pm

The therapy's aim is good sleep - sometimes we have to be permissive about higher AHI - and you can see in both of the higher AHI nights that the machine can bring your pressure up quickly - and that most of the time, you're doing quite well at the lower pressure.

Do you have an O2 ring? The question of what happens to your oxygen when you have these apnea clusters is relevant if you want to consider being permissive about letting them happen.

there was a time when my goal was zero ahi. yes, i know that's not realistic, but i clung to it tenaciously . around janurary of 2022, i gave up on that notion and started concentrating on getting a good nights sleep. wasn't doing too badly before this damned side sleeping with aerophagia thing decide to happen. and by "good nights sleep" i mean length and duration coupled with less discomfort. my biceps starting to ache a bit has crept up on me as well.

pugsy once said that the cluster of obstructive apneas that show up around 1:30 looks to her like rem sleep. i dunno. hard for me to know when i'm in rem or not.

no 02 ring.

if i can get my ahi down below say 2 i feel like i'd be in much better shape.

but then i'd be chasing 2 instead of 0!

Could be a double whammy....REM AND supine sleeping.

Google "sleep stages" and look at the normal hypnograms to get an idea when REM comes along and how long it lasts.

It's hard to try to not chase numbers isn't it?
I finally broke that habit years ago when I woke up and felt absolutely amazing....best day ever.
For sure I just knew the AHI must have been 0.0 and boy was I surprised to see 10.4. WTF???
If I could duplicate that day and how amazing I felt I would gladly take AHI of 10 every single night.
Alas...was a fluke.

I have since learned that how I feel during the day is mainly tied to hours of sleep in general and overall sleep quality and not so much the AHI which to this day is still mainly around 80% SWJ. Unfortunately I am still chasing more hours of sleep and better quality sleep. I wish all I had to chase were the numbers because they are fairly easy to chase.
Fixing OSA issues is pretty simple most of the time (except when the aerophagia monster moves in) but fixing problem sleep issues like hours or quality is much more difficult.

Have you zoomed in on that one big cluster to confirm you were for sure asleep???

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Thu May 25, 2023 11:54 am

Could be a double whammy....REM AND supine sleeping.

HEY! you're supposed to be encouraging me.

Google "sleep stages" and look at the normal hypnograms to get an idea when REM comes along and how long it lasts.

will do.

Have you zoomed in on that one big cluster to confirm you were for sure asleep???

this?


doesn't look like the example you have posted in the sticky. so i was awake?

zonker wrote: ↑

Thu May 25, 2023 6:04 pm

doesn't look like the example you have posted in the sticky. so i was awake?

Arousal/awake breathing....so you were awake and those flagged events shown are most likely SWJ.
Now you might look at the very first flagged event in that cluster and see if it was a real asleep event or not.
Remember you can have one real asleep event that causes an arousal....then subsequent SWJ flagged events because of the arousal.
And we don't always remember arousals either.

Just make sure you don't keep increasing the pressure to kill the SWJ stuff because it won't help and it will likely open the door for the aerophagia monster to come in.

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Thu May 25, 2023 6:21 pm

Just make sure you don't keep increasing the pressure to kill the SWJ stuff because it won't help and it will likely open the door for the aerophagia monster to come in.

well jeez. will look at the other later.

this here?



looks like i was awake there too?

That's what my gut says. Hard to say at this level of zooming in...a little too close and we can't see much of the breathing just prior to the first flag. Maybe a 3 minute window instead of 1 minute and have the flagged OA over near the end at the right side.