Aerophagia and bievel machine

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Thu May 25, 2023 8:41 pm

That's what my gut says. Hard to say at this level of zooming in...a little too close and we can't see much of the breathing just prior to the first flag. Maybe a 3 minute window instead of 1 minute and have the flagged OA over near the end at the right side.

this?


or am i not zoomed in close enough?

dear diary,


i almost want to discount this one and have a "do over". i decided yesterday was "eat like zonker is 18" day and consequently had a rough night of indigestion alone.

i feel as though i need to do something. it's all to the well and good (as my mother used to say) to determine if my breathing is swj or not. but i can't envision how knowing this helps me to improve my sleep situation.

i'm considering side sleeping with some sort of modification to escape the belching. perhaps a pillow of some sort to get me into a slightly different position and hopefully quell the aerophagia.

back sleeping is so nice for my comfort issues but ahi picks up. and whether it's swj or not, the higher ahi must have SOME merit to it as i'm feeling logy and "headachey" in the morning.

Zoomed in just fine this time.
You know if it wasn't for that one big gulp of air and then the cessation of breathing followed by the flag I would say for sure a real asleep OA. But that one gulp of air kinda makes it not so easy to be sure.
It's not a huge gulp for sure but it is there.
After the flag it's obvious there was an arousal and not solid sleep so it wouldn't be impossible for the bulk of the rest of the flagged events to be SWJ assuming we count this questionable flagged event as the real deal and not arousal related but there's that gulp of air prior to the flagging...makes me wonder a bit. I don't go changing settings based on one "iffy" flagged event though. I only change things when results are consistent and frequent and when there aren't too many questions in my mind is to asleep vs arousal.

Here's a central preceded by a gulp of air. Most likely I was changing position in bed. You know the "hold your breath and turn over in bed" thing. We may or may not remember doing it.



Here's a couple of flagged OAs that I assume are real asleep OAs...no big gulp prior to the flag and a very small recovery breath after both.



We can't always tell with 100% certainty if the breaths are "asleep breaths" or "arousal breaths"....sometimes the answer isn't black and white clear. Sometimes it is shades of gray. We just do the best we can with the information we have which is far from perfectly clear often.

Most likely I was in REM sleep. Timing is about right anyway and it goes with my history.

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Fri May 26, 2023 11:31 am

it's all to the well and good (as my mother used to say) to determine if my breathing is swj or not. but i can't envision how knowing this helps me to improve my sleep situation.

It is helpful so that you know which thing you need to try to fix....sleep quality or airway issues.
Now knowing what to do to improve sleep quality itself....we both know that is far from easy to figure out.
Remember to fix a problem....you first have to figure out what the problem is.

zonker wrote: ↑

Fri May 26, 2023 11:21 am

the higher ahi must have SOME merit to it as i'm feeling logy and "headachey" in the morning.

Yep...but the higher AHI (when the bulk of it is SWJ) can be simply a symptom of a crappy night's sleep but not necessarily the cause of the crappy night's sleep. When we have crappy sleep during the night...we feel like crap during the day. It's the poor sleep quality that is the culprit....even without OSA being a factor at all... when we sleep poorly we feel poorly or not as good as we would like.

Your first cluster last night...I would bet my last dollar you weren't sound asleep.
The second two clusters could be related to REM (assuming you were for sure asleep) but need more in depth evaluation to be anywhere near sure if they were real asleep events or not. The timing for those clusters being REM related is right in line. The first cluster...way too soon to have REM happen which is why I have my doubts as to real or not.

If you want to load last night into SleepHQ I could take a look at all of them up close easily.

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Fri May 26, 2023 11:46 am

If you want to load last night into SleepHQ I could take a look at all of them up close easily.

what?!?! you want me to learn something new?



well, okay. if i have to, i guess.

am creating an account while i'm typing this. will give ya a link shortly.

zonker wrote: ↑

Fri May 26, 2023 5:13 pm

what?!?! you want me to learn something new?

Well I could create a LOT more work for both of us by asking you to zip/compress your entire SD card and put it at dropbox and send me a link so I can go get the files...then I could try to import your file (after I unzip it) and hope you made a good copy of that entire SD card so I can put it all in my OSCAR.....and THEN I look at your data zoomed in.

I prefer you do a little work getting things to SleepHQ and I do just a little work scrolling through SleepHQ.
Lot less work for both of us. One new thing to learn instead of maybe half a dozen new things to learn.

Your choice.

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Fri May 26, 2023 5:35 pm

Your choice.

taking some time uploading over there.

will get ya a link later, if i don't forget it in the meantime.

let's see if i have this right-
https://sleephq.com/account/teams/jAApAj

zonker wrote: ↑

Fri May 26, 2023 7:09 pm

let's see if i have this right-
https://sleephq.com/account/teams/jAApAj

Give me a link to the report and not the log in account page please.

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Fri May 26, 2023 7:22 pm

zonker wrote: ↑

Fri May 26, 2023 7:09 pm

let's see if i have this right-
https://sleephq.com/account/teams/jAApAj

Give me a link to the report and not the log in account page please.

weeeee!!!!

this here?
https://sleephq.com/public/595f7012-5c4 ... d5adf07c14

Okay...quick run through.

Roughly
10 maybe asleep events
25 arousal/awake events
12 asleep events
not hourly averages...over the entire night and I might have forgot to count a couple but it's close.

Second sleep session starting at approx 4 AM....boring...maybe a dozen very brief arousals but none with flagged events and you probably don't remember many. Nice report that session anyway. 4 hours of very decent sleep and therapy.

Now the first sleep session is a totally screwed up mess and where the bulk of your event flagging happened as well as some really wonky breaths that I have no idea what they mean but LOTS of definite and prolonged evidence of arousal/awake breathing.

So...any idea what the difference was between the first sleep session and the second session starting around 4 ish?

Remember the machine doesn't know that you weren't totally asleep that first session so it responded to all those OAs with all the pressure changes....problem is...you weren't asleep for most of those flagged events.
If you have a "boring" night like the second session the machine won't do much of anything.

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Fri May 26, 2023 8:24 pm

So...any idea what the difference was between the first sleep session and the second session starting around 4 ish?

i won't exaggerate but it's not uncommon for the second sleep to be event free. this has been true for as far back as i can remember.

many times i wake up between 3:30 and 5 am and use the bathroom. i don't HAVE to go pee, but i'm awake and want to take care of it so that i can sleep a little easier.

now, that first sleep? while it may not be treated, from my point of view, i'm sleeping. that is, i seem to be sleeping soundly from 11 to 4. again, this goes back for all of my years on the machine. once i get up and get back to bed, generally speaking, i wake up about every hour until i finally get out of bed.

so, for example, lights out at 11 pm wake up say 4 am, pee, back to bed then 1 hour "sleeps" until 8 am or so. and i have no trouble falling back to sleep after that 4 am wake up.

this has only been disrupted when i was doing side sleeping, but that got too uncomfortable to maintain.

So while you don't remember a lot of arousals the first session...they happened even if you don't remember them.
You didn't sleep nearly as soundly as you might think. Is that responsible for you not feeling as good as you might want...well it sure didn't help matters to essentially get only 4 hours of good solid sleep that second session. It's not surprising that first session wasn't very restorative.

Something changed...figuring out what won't be so easy.

Roughly half your AHI was arousal related flagging so other than pointing to crappy sleep quality....it isn't as bad as you initially might think. And some of the "maybes" may lean more arousal than asleep.

When do you eat and when do you go to sleep?

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Fri May 26, 2023 8:54 pm

Roughly half your AHI was arousal related flagging so other than pointing to crappy sleep quality....it isn't as bad as you initially might think. And some of the "maybes" may lean more arousal than asleep.

can you restate that? i'm not taking in your meaning.

thanks!