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Pattern-vauto-7/PS4.4

I think these Sc's could show you the "pattern" I saw, ok this time for real, no more screenshots
Anyone who has the kindness and time to actually go through them is appreciated, and if you are not, thank you as well.

The "pattern" is easy to spot...arousal breathing but the why is impossible to isolate. The machine simply can't tell us why.

You could post a gazillion screen shots and you will get the same answer.

sleepyzzzz wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 12, 2023 4:29 pm

do you have an advice to whom i should consult if this is not breathing related issue? what was your own experience and solution?

Sorry. I can't help you. I haven't found a solution to my own problem which is 2 fold...stress and pain related.
But my OSA is well treated and not the cause of any sleep problems I have.

Please no more of these screen shots. Way too many and not helpful and actually difficult for people to read if they uncrossed their eyes and did try to look.

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 12, 2023 4:57 pm

The "pattern" is easy to spot...arousal breathing but the why is impossible to isolate. The machine simply can't tell us why.

You could post a gazillion screen shots and you will get the same answer.

sleepyzzzz wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 12, 2023 4:29 pm

do you have an advice to whom i should consult if this is not breathing related issue? what was your own experience and solution?

Sorry. I can't help you. I haven't found a solution to my own problem which is 2 fold...stress and pain related.
But my OSA is well treated and not the cause of any sleep problems I have.

Please no more of these screen shots. Way too many and not helpful and actually difficult for people to read if they uncrossed their eyes and did try to look.

No more screenshots, thanks and I wish you better health as well.
I have posted on the forum for few years now the 3-4 screenshots, it does not give complete picture or enough data, I heard many advices of raise PS or don't use Vauto, I admit there is so many SCs, but if someone had the experience and knowledge to how to fix this, I think he/she could through the 100+ screenshot I posted not the 3-4 SCs. I know this is a free forum and the advice given here is by many good people, so it's ok if nobody or somebody does not want to go through 100+ screenshot, i wish him and you a nice day.

sleepyzzzz,

You wrote way back before all the screenshots:

sleepyzzzz wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:30 pm

What is my problem and why I am trying to tweak such low AHI ? The more arousals I have in my sleep ( conscious arousals where I'm aware of my surrounding and have time to stop/restart the machine to mark an arousal and remember my dream, then go back to sleep; the more arousals I get, the worse my sleep is, which leads me to wake up as "zombie" can not do anything other than trying to go back to bed and hope I could fall asleep for a nap even a minute ( I can not nap, I am awaken with almost snore like airflow limitation as soon as I drift to sleep), if that happens, the zombie effect subsids for few hours before returning, nothing can fix it till it is sleep time and I try another night.

I've given cursory looks that the very large number of screen shots that you've posted. Yes, there do appear to be some spontaneous arousals---i.e. arousals that do not appear to be respiratory related. And excess numbers of spontaneous arousals can easily lead to the zombie feeling the next day. But dial-wingin' isn't going to fix spontaneous arousals or much improve your sleep when your treated AHI is as low as it is in the screenshots you've shown us.

In other words, all the surgeries and your current use of CPAP is keeping your sleep disrupted breathing under control so that SDB (i.e. OSA and UARS and snoring) is NOT what is causing your bad sleep. Something else is causing the bad sleep and until you address whatever the something else is, your sleep is likely to remain bad.

And you've admitted that you find yourself in a feedback loop: When you arouse enough to be aware that you've aroused, that leads to more and more arousals. In other words, you're dealing with sleep continuity insomnia of some sort. And my guess is that what's feeding the feedback loop is a combination of worry/anxiety when you find yourself conscious of being awake in the middle of the night and a tendency to analyze the data looking for all the evidence you can find of any possible arousal in the flow rate data. And my guess is that every time you see something funky, you use that as evidence that something must be wrong with your breathing and sleep, and that feeds the zombie feelings.

And that means you need to work (hard) on teaching your body to break out of the feedback loop. You need to teach your body that one arousal does not need to lead to more and more and more arousals.

As ozij said back on page 2:

ozij wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:59 pm

Stop tracking your arousals!
Whenever you wake up, tell yourself: "Oh, right, that's normal, I should go back to sleep." Make yourself comfortable in bed and make try to continue sleeping.
You have trained your conscious brain to respond to normal arousals with driving yourself awake - you have to train it to let you sleep.
You've gotten yourself into a vicious cycle of trying to monitor your sleep while you're sleeping, thereby keeping yourself from sleeping properly.
Obsessively documenting each and every "arousal" will lead you nowhere. If there's a breathing disturbance, OSCAR will record it without your help.
If you can't break out of that cycle, look for a cognitive behavioral sleep therapist that will help you do so.

Ozij's advice is spot on. Follow it.

And I'll add this: As someone who had to do cognitive behavior therapy to fix a similar, very severe problem, you need to be patient when working with the therapist. CBT-I is not an instant fix---it usually takes several weeks to a few months to replace the behaviors that are causing the problems with behaviors that teach your body to go back to sleep quickly after waking up in the middle of the night.

Good luck.

thank you for the time to look and write the reply