Page 7 of 12
Re: Baseline for Desaturations and Flow rates
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 10:14 am
by Rubicon
So hammers, a sledge, and The Undertaker's Piledriver didn't help.
Time to go to
Re: Baseline for Desaturations and Flow rates
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:03 pm
by dataq1
Rubicon wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 10:11 am
Wondering1 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 10:06 am
Is that supposed to be an example of
stable breathing.?
On what planet are hypopneas part of of
stable breathing?
IOWs, ya got nothin'.
The evaluation of a hypopnea EVENT is based in a departure from the baseline of
STABLE breathing
PRIOR to the event.
What you are holding up as an example is NON-STABLE breathing, therefore there is no "baseline" to compare.
Re: Baseline for Desaturations and Flow rates
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:19 pm
by Rubicon
dataq1 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:03 pm
Rubicon wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 10:11 am
Wondering1 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 10:06 am
Is that supposed to be an example of
stable breathing.?
On what planet are hypopneas part of of
stable breathing?
IOWs, ya got nothin'.
The evaluation of a hypopnea EVENT is based in a departure from the baseline of
STABLE breathing
PRIOR to the event.
What you are holding up as an example is NON-STABLE breathing, therefore there is no "baseline" to compare.
Oh
NOW I got it.
If somebody has a lot of hypopneas then the machine isn't going to score any hypopneas, so the worse you are, the better you are.
Yup, makes perfect sense to me!
Just when you think it can't any worse...
...it does.
Re: Baseline for Desaturations and Flow rates
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:28 pm
by Rubicon
dataq1 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:03 pm
The evaluation of a hypopnea EVENT is based in a departure from the baseline of
STABLE breathing
PRIOR to the event.
By-the-by, I missed the part where the somebody said that the baseline must be
STABLE breathing
before the algorithm starts calculating stuff.
Can you point me to that?
TIA.
Re: Baseline for Desaturations and Flow rates
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:30 pm
by Rubicon
Rubicon wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:28 pm
TIA.
By that I mean your logic is so flawed you must be having one.
Re: Baseline for Desaturations and Flow rates
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:49 pm
by palerider
Rubicon wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 9:15 am
Rubicon wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 8:56 am
Wednesday opened the floodgate of stupid that began gushing over the dam:
Yeah I know the stupid would actually be gushing out the floodgate but over the dam sounded better.
There's so much stupid from those two that it's overwhelming the floodgates and STILL overtopping the damn... so you were right on both counts.
Re: Baseline for Desaturations and Flow rates
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 2:06 pm
by dataq1
Rubicon wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:28 pm
By-the-by, I missed the part where the somebody said that the baseline must be
STABLE breathing
before the algorithm starts calculating stuff.
Can you point me to that?
TIA.
Glad to:
The AASM “Chicago consensus paper” states, “Baseline is defined as the mean amplitude of stable breathing and oxygenation in the 2 minutes preceding onset of the event (in individuals who have a stable breathing pattern during sleep) or the mean amplitude of the 3 largest breaths in the 2 minutes preceding onset of the event (in individuals without a stable breathing pattern).” The 2007 scoring manual states, “When baseline breathing amplitude cannot be easily determined (and when underlying breathing variability is large), events can be terminated when either there is a clear and sustained increased in breathing amplitude, or in the case where an oxygen desaturation has occurred, there is event-associated oxygen re-saturation of at least 2%.” The task force recommends that the 2007 manual guideline for determining baseline breathing be upheld
and
robysue1:
When a person has stable sleep breathing and oxygenation, the baseline respiration amplitude and oxygenation are based on the the last two minutes of stable sleep breathing before the start of the event.
Notice it says baseline RESPIRATION AMPLITUDE.
Stability is a predicate to the calculation of baseline (of both respiration and oxygenation).
Is your example stable?
Re: Baseline for Desaturations and Flow rates
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 2:30 pm
by Rubicon
Read AASM again ya moron. Breathing doesn't have to be stable. And often isn't.
Re: Baseline for Desaturations and Flow rates
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 2:32 pm
by Rubicon
Rubicon wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 2:30 pm
Read AASM again ya moron. Breathing doesn't have to be stable. And often isn't.
Although I bet you didn't bother to actually read it the first time.
Re: Baseline for Desaturations and Flow rates
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 2:54 pm
by Rubicon
Rubicon wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 2:30 pm
Read AASM again ya moron. Breathing doesn't have to be stable. And often isn't.
And while I appreciate you countering your own argument that's not what ResMed does anyway.
Re: Baseline for Desaturations and Flow rates
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 3:43 pm
by Wondering1
Rubicon wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 2:54 pm
IF you guys can put aside all the name calling, in the example that Rubicon provided,
what is the baseline ?
Isn't the baseline value what is used to evaluate current breathing for possible events?
Re: Baseline for Desaturations and Flow rates
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 3:51 pm
by palerider
Wondering1 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 3:43 pm
Rubicon wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 2:54 pm
IF you guys can put aside all the name calling, in the example that Rubicon provided,
what is the baseline ?
Isn't the baseline value what is used to evaluate current breathing for possible events?
Stupidity brings out name calling, and there's plenty from you trolls in this thread.
At least you're not disrupting anything where we're trying to, you know,
help someone.
Re: Baseline for Desaturations and Flow rates
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 4:16 pm
by Wondering1
Can
you answer the question, if Rubicon cannot/won't?
What is the baseline in the example Rubicon provided?
Re: Baseline for Desaturations and Flow rates
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 5:24 pm
by palerider
Wondering1 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 4:16 pm
Can
you answer the question, if Rubicon cannot/won't?
What is the baseline in the example Rubicon provided?
I'm not interested in feeding trolls today, sorry, back under your bridge.
Re: Baseline for Desaturations and Flow rates
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 6:18 pm
by Rubicon
Wondering1 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 3:43 pm
Rubicon wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 2:54 pm
IF you guys can put aside all the name calling, in the example that Rubicon provided,
what is the baseline ?
Isn't the baseline value what is used to evaluate current breathing for possible events?
Nah, you've got too many things in the queue to finish before I (or we, as the case may be) go any further.