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Re: Baseline for Desaturations and Flow rates
Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 10:12 am
by robysue1
Wondering1 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 7:16 am
robysue1 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 1:30 am
in an effort to promote your pet theory that tidal volume should be used instead, you're not going to persuade anybody that you know what you are talking about.
Yet another area of dispute. "your pet theory that tidal volume should be
used instead".
I have consistently said that TV should be considered; I've NEVER suggested that TV should be used
instead.
Rather, I have suggested that TV data should be CONSIDERED when "we" the OSCAR users look at graphs.
And yet, the entire community of sleep medicine professionals do not agree with you and your pet theory.
Re: Baseline for Desaturations and Flow rates
Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 10:37 am
by Wondering1
robysue1 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 10:12 am
And yet, the entire community of sleep medicine professionals do not agree with you and your pet theory.
My "pet' theory is that the TV data
should be taken into consideration.
Are you saying that the "entire community of sleep professionals" choose to ignore TV data?
' cuz that's what It sounds like you are saying when you speak for "entire community of sleep professionals"
Re: Baseline for Desaturations and Flow rates
Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 10:56 am
by Rubicon
Wondering1 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 10:37 am
robysue1 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 10:12 am
And yet, the entire community of sleep medicine professionals do not agree with you and your pet theory.
My "pet' theory is that the TV data
should be taken into consideration.
Are you saying that the "entire community of sleep professionals" choose to ignore TV data?
' cuz that's what It sounds like you are saying when you speak for "entire community of sleep professionals"
I believe I can speak for "some" of "the community of sleep professionals".
Your idea is stupid.
Re: Baseline for Desaturations and Flow rates
Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 11:58 am
by palerider
Wondering1 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 6:06 am
palerider wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 11:27 pm
Yes, there may be a full volume of air in the last breath, but it's more
work.
How much “more work” ?
How did you measure this
work?
BTW, the flow limitation graph is flat at 0.02 (and of course that graph has no measurement units - highly suggestive that it is not a measured quantity
Unlike Robysue, I'm not interested in playing your troll games.
Re: Baseline for Desaturations and Flow rates
Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 12:59 pm
by Wondering1
palerider wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 11:58 am
Wondering1 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 6:06 am
palerider wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 11:27 pm
Yes, there may be a full volume of air in the last breath, but it's more
work.
How much “more work” ?
How did you measure this
work?
Unlike Robysue, I'm not interested in playing your troll games.
Then don't come back, so far you have not had much to contribute.
Re: Baseline for Desaturations and Flow rates
Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 2:27 pm
by Tec5
palerider wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 11:27 pm
Yes, there may be a full volume of air in the last breath, but it's more
work.
Therein is one of the difficulties, You are talking "work" and "effort", while Wondering has been talking about oxygenation.
You are talking about two different things.
Re: Baseline for Desaturations and Flow rates
Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 3:33 pm
by Rubicon
Tec5 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 2:27 pm
...Wondering has been talking about oxygenation.
Y'know, I've tried.
I've really tried.
My early characters were nice. Really they were.
But after a while--
the comments just beat you down...
Re: Baseline for Desaturations and Flow rates
Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 3:59 pm
by zonker
Rubicon wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 3:33 pm
But after a while--
the comments just beat you down...
which is the whole point.
Re: Baseline for Desaturations and Flow rates
Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 4:31 pm
by Rubicon
zonker wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 3:59 pm
Rubicon wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 3:33 pm
But after a while--
the comments just beat you down...
which is the whole point.
That it's all hopeless?
Re: Baseline for Desaturations and Flow rates
Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 4:42 pm
by Rubicon
Rubicon wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 4:31 pm
zonker wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 3:59 pm
Rubicon wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 3:33 pm
But after a while--
the comments just beat you down...
which is the whole point.
That it's all hopeless?
And the terrorists won?
Re: Baseline for Desaturations and Flow rates
Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 5:01 pm
by robysue1
Tec5 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 2:27 pm
palerider wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 11:27 pm
Yes, there may be a full volume of air in the last breath, but it's more
work.
Therein is one of the difficulties, You are talking "work" and "effort", while Wondering has been talking about oxygenation.
You are talking about two different things.
Yes, Wondering is talking about oxygenation.
But the basic problem in OSA is all about the
effort to get air
to start flowing into the lungs: On a PSG, that work and effort is measured by the belts they put around your abdomen and chest. And the more obstructed the airway is, harder those muscles that control breathing have to work in a futile attempt to get the flow of air into the lungs to start.
That's exactly what OSA is all about: The body
wants to breathe. The body
tries to breathe. But because of the obstructed airway, the body
cannot get air
to start flowing into the lungs until it wakes up and orders the muscles around the upper airway to tighten up so that the upper airway is no longer obstructed.
The repeated arousals and their destruction of the sleep architecture is just as destructive to the body as the O2 desats are.
Re: Baseline for Desaturations and Flow rates
Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 5:03 pm
by robysue1
Rubicon wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 4:42 pm
Rubicon wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 4:31 pm
zonker wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 3:59 pm
Rubicon wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 3:33 pm
But after a while--
the comments just beat you down...
which is the whole point.
That it's all hopeless?
And the terrorists won?
The terrorists only win when we let them win.
I guess that's why I'm still lecturing at them ....
Re: Baseline for Desaturations and Flow rates
Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 5:03 pm
by palerider
Wondering1 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 12:59 pm
palerider wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 11:58 am
Wondering1 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 6:06 am
palerider wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 11:27 pm
Yes, there may be a full volume of air in the last breath, but it's more
work.
How much “more work” ?
How did you measure this
work?
Unlike Robysue, I'm not interested in playing your troll games.
Then don't come back, so far you have not had much to contribute.
We're all hoping you'll do that.
Re: Baseline for Desaturations and Flow rates
Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 5:06 pm
by palerider
Rubicon wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 4:42 pm
Rubicon wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 4:31 pm
zonker wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 3:59 pm
Rubicon wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 3:33 pm
But after a while--
the comments just beat you down...
which is the whole point.
That it's all hopeless?
And the terrorists won?
Well, as Harvey Danger once wrote:
Been around the world and found
That only stupid people are breeding
The cretins cloning and feeding
And I don't even own a TV
Re: Baseline for Desaturations and Flow rates
Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 5:07 pm
by zonker
Rubicon wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 4:42 pm
Rubicon wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 4:31 pm
zonker wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 3:59 pm
Rubicon wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 3:33 pm
But after a while--
the comments just beat you down...
which is the whole point.
That it's all hopeless?
And the terrorists won?
