Full face mask pulsing/pulsating Resmed/APAP

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
Origin
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Full face mask pulsing/pulsating Resmed/APAP

Post by Origin » Sun Nov 27, 2022 8:49 am

When I began APAP earlier this year I started out with the full face mask.

I'm not sure what exact model of mask it is as I can't find the leaflet right now. Pretty sure it's Resmed's own. It has a thin silicone rim which is the cushion. It's not foam, and it's not an inflated balloon type cushion. It's just a thin frill with the edge of the frill in contact with the face.

I don't remember a problem in the first few days of use but after a while the mask would pulse (collapse) onto the face at the end of inhaling. It's like being continually poked in the face as you're trying to sleep making sleep impossible. I tried a different size of same mask. Same problem.

Tried in CPAP mode instead of APAP to see if there would be a difference. There was no difference.

My CPAP/health provider could not explain the pulsing.

I took the machine into them eventually, they said there was nothing wrong with it and for some reason I couldn't demonstrate the problem with them there which was frustrating. So I was put onto nasal pillows instead (see other post about that!), but it always seemed crazy that the full face mask didn't seem to work with me.

I did do quite a bit of searching on this, and read a few posts on this site with people experiencing something similar, but really couldn't see a good conclusion to the problem.

My guess is what's happening is there is a change in air pressure on the end of inhaling breaking the mask's seal at that point and hence the mask collapses into the face with just enough pressure to be a continually annoyance and barrier to sleep.

I wonder if a different, maybe third party style of full face mask would work better.

If anyone has any ideas about curing the pulsating full mask I would be grateful.

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robysue1
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Re: Full face mask pulsing/pulsating Resmed/APAP

Post by robysue1 » Sun Nov 27, 2022 9:48 am

Origin wrote:
Sun Nov 27, 2022 8:49 am
When I began APAP earlier this year I started out with the full face mask.

I'm not sure what exact model of mask it is as I can't find the leaflet right now. Pretty sure it's Resmed's own. It has a thin silicone rim which is the cushion. It's not foam, and it's not an inflated balloon type cushion. It's just a thin frill with the edge of the frill in contact with the face.
Resmed makes multiple full face masks, and almost all of them are "air cushion" masks that have the thin silicone rim to trap the air to form an "air cushion" to seal the mask.
I took the machine into them eventually, they said there was nothing wrong with it and for some reason I couldn't demonstrate the problem with them there which was frustrating.
My guess is that when you were trying to demonstrate the problem at the DME, you were sitting up right in a chair. But the problem occurs when you are lying down in bed in your normal sleep position. The muscles in our face relax when we're lying down (and in sleep) and that causes the shape of our face and jaw to change. If the mask is fit while you are sitting up, the mere (but necessary) act of lying down can shift things around and start to cause problems. And if the air cushion is not fully inflated (because the headgear is too tight), that can cause the mask to spring leak when you lie down.

My guess is what's happening is there is a change in air pressure on the end of inhaling breaking the mask's seal at that point and hence the mask collapses into the face with just enough pressure to be a continually annoyance and barrier to sleep.
Is EPR turned on? If so, then there is indeed a change in air pressure at the end of each inhalation. And in your case, the change caused by EPR might be just enough to be causing the air cushion to deflate for some reason and leading to your problems. You could try turning EPR off, but most people find EPR a pretty important comfort feature since it makes exhaling against the pressure much easier.
I wonder if a different, maybe third party style of full face mask would work better.
A different style of full face mask might work. One thing you didn't tell us is whether the full face mask you are using has a forehead support or not. If your current full face mask doesn't have a forehead support, trying one that does may provide the mask with enough support to prevent the air cushion from slightly deflating when you exhale and EPR drops the pressure.
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Origin
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Re: Full face mask pulsing/pulsating Resmed/APAP

Post by Origin » Sun Nov 27, 2022 10:38 am

robysue1 wrote:
Sun Nov 27, 2022 9:48 am
My guess is that when you were trying to demonstrate the problem at the DME, you were sitting up right in a chair. But the problem occurs when you are lying down in bed in your normal sleep position. The muscles in our face relax when we're lying down (and in sleep) and that causes the shape of our face and jaw to change. If the mask is fit while you are sitting up, the mere (but necessary) act of lying down can shift things around and start to cause problems. And if the air cushion is not fully inflated (because the headgear is too tight), that can cause the mask to spring leak when you lie down.
Again, thanks for the detailed reply on this one too. This is an excellent idea. Thinking this could be an issue at the time, I did try to emulate a supine position whilst there as best I could on their seating. But it still wasn't demonstrating well. But the relaxation of the jaw might well be an issue.
Is EPR turned on? If so, then there is indeed a change in air pressure at the end of each inhalation. And in your case, the change caused by EPR might be just enough to be causing the air cushion to deflate for some reason and leading to your problems. You could try turning EPR off, but most people find EPR a pretty important comfort feature since it makes exhaling against the pressure much easier.
I'm going to get back on this one and find out. I'm pretty sure at the time I did try changing the EPR setting, and there wasn't a change but I will get back on this.
A different style of full face mask might work. One thing you didn't tell us is whether the full face mask you are using has a forehead support or not. If your current full face mask doesn't have a forehead support, trying one that does may provide the mask with enough support to prevent the air cushion from slightly deflating when you exhale and EPR drops the pressure.
Now I see the mask is the AirFit F20 as it's actually printed on the thing I realized. A strap that goes over the forehead -no. The top strap goes over the top/back of the head with what I have here. Nothing on the forehead itself.

Many thanks for the help

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robysue1
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Re: Full face mask pulsing/pulsating Resmed/APAP

Post by robysue1 » Sun Nov 27, 2022 3:46 pm

Origin wrote:
Sun Nov 27, 2022 10:38 am
A different style of full face mask might work. One thing you didn't tell us is whether the full face mask you are using has a forehead support or not. If your current full face mask doesn't have a forehead support, trying one that does may provide the mask with enough support to prevent the air cushion from slightly deflating when you exhale and EPR drops the pressure.
Now I see the mask is the AirFit F20 as it's actually printed on the thing I realized. A strap that goes over the forehead -no. The top strap goes over the top/back of the head with what I have here. Nothing on the forehead itself.
You may find a full-face mask with a forehead support is a bit more stable in terms of moving around when you are exhaling.
Joined as robysue on 9/18/10. Forgot my password & the email I used was on a machine that has long since died & gone to computer heaven.

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