CPAPtalk.com

I've been a cpap user for 3 years, occasionally posting here for advice. I struggled a lot with mouth breathing with cpap the past and it led to a lot of dental issues. It improved significantly after a ton of experimentation, but I've recently decided that even my current situation isn't good enough and need to explore more. I wanted to make a big post of the things I've tried (in case anyone else with similar issues stumbles upon this) and a couple of things I'm going to explore. I should note that the leaks were at a small, steady rate over the entire night that I couldn't really detect them on Oscar, but I can usually tell when it was a bad night based on dry mouth/ if the water chamber was depleted.

I use Resmed VAuto and airfit p10/swift fx.

What I've tried:

The neoprene chin straps on amazon that apply both an upwards and a backwards force: Seems most of the community agree these kind of suck and don't do a great job at anything. The backwards force doesn't feel good on my jaw and aren't very effective at keeping my mouth shut.

The "loopy" style elastic bands: These are a little better at keeping the jaw shut, but the ones I preferred (by Carex on amazon) changed their design so that the support strap is no longer included, which means they slide off during the night. Here's the one I'm currently using and it's rather so-so because the detachable straps are too short and very awkward. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00PM53XR0?ps ... ct_details

The Knightsbridge Dual Strap: I hear they work great for lots of other people but maybe my head is just the wrong shape. I've found that no matter how much I try to tighten them, the entire cap always rotates forwards during sleep and that causes the straps to go slack. This past week, I went and tried them out again 2 years, and more or less the same issue. However, I've found that one of these in conjunction with the loopy style elastic bands seem to do an ok but not great job of providing an upwards force on the lower jaw. If you are experimenting with chin straps, it might be worth giving them a shot. They are just not the silver bullet for me, though I might continue to use it as part of the ensemble. Btw I tried out both a large and XL, and it seems only the large fits me. I hope it's not against the rules, but I'd be happy to give the XL (worn once) to someone who is wanting to try Knightsbridge out - just make sure to see the size chart on their website. https://dualbandchinstrap.com/products/ ... chin-strap and if you're a fit for the XL, ping me.

Cervical Collars: I have been using a "front" cervical collar advertised as a sleep aid, and tbh I'm not sure that it's doing much. https://www.amazon.com/Eliminator-Sleep ... C97&sr=8-2 I have also tried using a more generic cervical collar in the past, though I found it wasn't doing much to keep my jaw closed.I am going to re-explore this idea as I think getting a thicker and taller one might do a better job of keeping the jaw in place.

Mouth tape: My general issue with Somnifix was that it would always fall off my mouth after a few hours. Even if I tried to scrub my mouth area with astringent witch hazel wipe (which helps a lot to remove oils and make the adhesive stick better), it would still come undone in a corner and leak like crazy. It's still worth a try if you are experimenting, it just wasn't sufficient for me, though it works ok for a <2 hr nap.

Same goes for a just using a generic tape (like 3m) horizontally across my mouth - it would always come undone. However, I am considering trying to tape vertically as described here https://doctorstevenpark.com/the-mouth- ... tter-sleep - it's an interesting idea to go all the way down to the chin as an anchor.

I've also used these WoodyKnows tapes that are designed almost like a bandage. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08X2FHY1Y?re ... woodyknows These are still my current solution and was better than the stuff I'd tried before but they just aren't cutting it anymore. Even if I put them on super tightly to make my lips airtight, they stretch out too much throughout the night and my lips get free after a while and leak. It seemed they were working better in the warmer weather, or maybe the manufacturer quality of the fabric changed, but right now they aren't doing their job at all, which is super frustrating.

Things I'm going to try:

Headband around mouth: I came across this post viewtopic.php?p=1089718&f=1&t=112758&p= ... s#p1086296 about using a headband to keep the mouth shut, and I'm intrigued. I'm not totally convinced/ don't really understand how it gets rid of mouth breathing though - I'd think it would only "disperse" the air coming out of the mouth, but it's only $5 so it'd be silly not to give it a shot.

I'll try out the vertical tape down to the chin as described above and getting a larger cervical collar as well. I will continue to use a mix of the knightsbridge and loopy style chin strap for now. Please let me know if you all have more suggestions - I've resolved to spend a lot of time/effort to sort this out for good, and am willing to try just about anything, and I'll report back here with my results.

ReverseBall wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 25, 2022 6:28 pm

Headband around mouth: I came across this post viewtopic.php?p=1089718&f=1&t=112758&p= ... s#p1086296 about using a headband to keep the mouth shut, and I'm intrigued. I'm not totally convinced/ don't really understand how it gets rid of mouth breathing though - I'd think it would only "disperse" the air coming out of the mouth, but it's only $5 so it'd be silly not to give it a shot.

jays scunci method is what i've been using for 6 years. it just plain works! i use it conjunction with a plain firm foam cervical collar. whatever that was you posted is overpriced. (dang it, i can't find the one i use!) try almost any cervical collar (firm foam, of curse) that you can find at your local drugstore. they'll be in the wellness aisle where the bed pans and crutches and such can be found.

the trick with the scunci is that it presses your lips down. the collar keeps your jaw up, together it works. i do a bit of "hacking" with it so it looks like this-



i use two scuncis. one goes around the upper portion of my mouth and then around my head. the second one goes around the lower portion then around the back of my neck. i didn't cut ear holes as jay did because apparently my head ain't shaped like jays. i also use an elastic band to help keep the scuncis compressed. the pic just shows one elastic but i use another across the top.

if you have any questions or if i didn't make something clear, pls be sure to ask. just by using this method, my ahi dropped a whole point. and mouth breathing isn't an issue for me any more.

good luck!

Mouth taping has helped me a LOT. I have tried several different tapes, some of which involve considerable pain on removal and likely peel off a layer of my 77 year old skin. For me, silicone tape works better than paper tape. More flexible, doesn't feel as confining, no adhesive left on skin in the morning. MedVance 1" wide works well for the purpose.

I found that removing the tape is less painful if I:

• gently stretch the skin in a direction opposite from removal (take the tape off in a left direction and gently stretch the skin in a right direction) and

• pull the tape back against itself (don't pull the tape outward from the face). I remove the tape with my left hand and keep the left thumb in contact with the face.

Maybe that won't work for others, but it does for me.

Thanks for your post! Almost sounds exactly what I’ve been experiencing as well. One question, I see a lot of people have the swift fx mask. I have used the p10 before or n10 and it was good but it kept sliding around my nose and the ones that go in my nose would irritate my nostrils. Anyways I use the dreamports almost every night now and I love that my nose isn’t sore. Just curious because I’d like a backup.
Anyways, yankylefty on YouTube has some amazing videos. He uses kind of the same setup as me and has recommended this tape for a long time so I’m finally trying it. I think it’s wider and sticks well.
Smith and Nephew/BSN Cover-Roll Stretch - 2" x 10 Yards - Hypoallergenic Pack of 2

I also just bought a diy mold kit on Amazon that I’m going to get a mouthpiece because sometimes I grind, but I heard it can prevent your tongue from collapsing if you get a lower guard.
I also literally just bought the knights bridge dual band in XL size haha. And I also got a tongue retainer device, only found at Walmart.com but it’s supposed to hold your tongue in place.
These are my current experiments im intrigued about the scrunchy so please let us know how it goes

> The neoprene chin straps on amazon that apply both an upwards and a backwards force: Seems most of the community agree these kind of suck and don't do a great job at anything. The backwards force doesn't
> feel good on my jaw and aren't very effective at keeping my mouth shut.

What I've learned on my own chin strap journey is that a "trick" is to actually pull the lower jaw back slightly. It can feel wrong on the jaw sometimes, but by pulling the jaw back slightly, it allows you better seal between your nasal and mouth cavities with your tongue. That effectively stops the airflow from the nasal mask and back out through the mouth.

It's exactly the opposite of most dental appliances which bring the lower jaw forward to open up the air passage. Those don't work if your objective is to stop mouth leaks. They work if your objective is to NOT use a CPAP. I talked it over with my dentist (also a sleep specialist, isn't everyone these days?), and there don't seem to be any appliances that work to stop mouth leaks. Although if you google enough you will find a dentist in Hawaii who has developed something himself. But a bit pricey for me to experiment with...

I do use the neoprene, but also have had good luck with Forzacx chin straps on Amazon. But I went back to neoprene as my jaw is heavy and the neoprene is stronger. My PCP actually recommended plastic surgery to remove my turkey wattle!! Never thought I'd have a Doctor recommending plastic surgery...

I use Somnifix AND the Jay Scunci method. (Thank you Zonker!) I do cut out earholes in the Scunci, and I use two bobby pins in back to anchor it so it keeps a bit of tension.

Neither method alone has worked for me, but for some reason the combination is a winner.

.
I'm 81 years old, so have soft, thin skin and I've found a tape that is low trauma, leaves no residue, and is strong. It is 1" NEXCARE "blue" low trauma tape for sensitive skin from 3M. Be sure to buy the "blue" Nexcare tape that says for sensitive skin (NOT the white paper tape).
https://www.google.com/search?client=sa ... 8&oe=UTF-8

I cut off a piece that extends about 3/4" beyond each corner of my mouth on each side (turning the right edge back on itself for easy removal). Be sure you draw your lips in, so that you are not taping onto your lips. It sticks well, yet is not traumatic to remove the next morning - just hold your right index finger against your skin, as you slowly pull to the left close to your face until it is removed. Then splash your mouth with cold water. It has never damaged or irritated my tender skin, and is securely fastened during the night.

JoyD.

I am very interested in the scunci method now given all the responses - bought some headbands and waiting for shipping.

Last night, I tried out a standard cervical collar from cvs + vertical paper tape down to the chin (from cvs) and the knightsbridge + loopy style chin strap yesterday. I don't think there was any mouth leaking (seemed my lips were pretty airtight upon waking up), but my mouth was still dry and the water chamber near empty. I'm actually a little confused... can the water chamber get depleted just from regular breathing through the nasal mask? I typically expect that the water level only go down a little bit when there are no leaks, but the weather has changed quite a bit recently and that may affect things. I had filled out the water chamber near the max, and upon waking up it was near the min.

I think the vertical tape was a pretty good idea. I actually used 3 parallel, vertical strips for more security. It seemed mostly intact by the time I woke up, though I might try to get more aggressive with the witch hazel wipes near the chin area.

Miss Emerita wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:03 pm

I use Somnifix AND the Jay Scunci method. (Thank you Zonker!) I do cut out earholes in the Scunci, and I use two bobby pins in back to anchor it so it keeps a bit of tension.

Neither method alone has worked for me, but for some reason the combination is a winner.

Thanks for the bobby pin suggestion - I was wondering how people keep the headband tight. I bought some hairband elastics off amazon for this purpose and will use bobby pins as a backup. I am also planning on using some tape in conjunction with the scunci, though we'll have to see how it pans out once the items actually arrive.

jlsmithseven wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 26, 2022 6:04 am

Thanks for your post! Almost sounds exactly what I’ve been experiencing as well. One question, I see a lot of people have the swift fx mask. I have used the p10 before or n10 and it was good but it kept sliding around my nose and the ones that go in my nose would irritate my nostrils. Anyways I use the dreamports almost every night now and I love that my nose isn’t sore. Just curious because I’d like a backup.
Anyways, yankylefty on YouTube has some amazing videos. He uses kind of the same setup as me and has recommended this tape for a long time so I’m finally trying it. I think it’s wider and sticks well.
Smith and Nephew/BSN Cover-Roll Stretch - 2" x 10 Yards - Hypoallergenic Pack of 2

I also just bought a diy mold kit on Amazon that I’m going to get a mouthpiece because sometimes I grind, but I heard it can prevent your tongue from collapsing if you get a lower guard.
I also literally just bought the knights bridge dual band in XL size haha. And I also got a tongue retainer device, only found at Walmart.com but it’s supposed to hold your tongue in place.
These are my current experiments im intrigued about the scrunchy so please let us know how it goes

I'll definitely update with my experiences once the items arrive.

As for masks, I switch between the swift fx and p10. The p10 is almost perfect, but I'm a little freaked out about the vents getting clogged. There has been some documentation showing that the super fine mesh vents get clogged after some debris buildup. It's a shame because the p10 is otherwise perfect (the pillows fit just right), but this freaks me out. I bought a water flosser off amazon and will clean the p10 with distilled water regularly. Maybe I'm being overcautious, but someone on one of these cpap forums did some extensive documentation about the clogging and it's enough to make me concerned about CO2 rebreathing. I did get a little bit of irritation when switching to the p10 after a long period of using the fx, but it wasn't too bad and went away after a day or two.

The swift fx is worse than the p10 in almost every way IMO, but the vents are much larger and doesn't seem to be any risk of that clogging. The pillows don't fit great and the straps are both clumsy and less effective. I still use them a lot, but wish I could have a combo of the p10 and the swift fx. I have tried the bleep dreamports, but even after a lot of experimentation, it still keeps making a weird whistling sound/sensation for me that is very unsettling during sleep - I think the air rushing past the plastic piece creates this feeling. It's not a leak, just a weird rustling. I am looking forward to trying out the magnetic bleep Eclipse when it comes out though.

clownbell wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:11 am

Mouth taping has helped me a LOT. I have tried several different tapes, some of which involve considerable pain on removal and likely peel off a layer of my 77 year old skin. For me, silicone tape works better than paper tape. More flexible, doesn't feel as confining, no adhesive left on skin in the morning. MedVance 1" wide works well for the purpose.

I found that removing the tape is less painful if I:

• gently stretch the skin in a direction opposite from removal (take the tape off in a left direction and gently stretch the skin in a right direction) and

• pull the tape back against itself (don't pull the tape outward from the face). I remove the tape with my left hand and keep the left thumb in contact with the face.

Maybe that won't work for others, but it does for me.

JoyD. wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 26, 2022 7:57 pm

.
I'm 81 years old, so have soft, thin skin and I've found a tape that is low trauma, leaves no residue, and is strong. It is 1" NEXCARE "blue" low trauma tape for sensitive skin from 3M. Be sure to buy the "blue" Nexcare tape that says for sensitive skin (NOT the white paper tape).
https://www.google.com/search?client=sa ... 8&oe=UTF-8

I cut off a piece that extends about 3/4" beyond each corner of my mouth on each side (turning the right edge back on itself for easy removal). Be sure you draw your lips in, so that you are not taping onto your lips. It sticks well, yet is not traumatic to remove the next morning - just hold your right index finger against your skin, as you slowly pull to the left close to your face until it is removed. Then splash your mouth with cold water. It has never damaged or irritated my tender skin, and is securely fastened during the night.

JoyD.

The current paper tape I'm using from cvs doesn't seem to bother me too much, though I find that vertical taping is a lot easier on the skin than horizontal. I have tried gentler tapes in the past (like the silicone or blue tapes), and it was a little too weak for my skin. I find that my skin is relatively oily and needs a stronger adhesive than most (weaker mouth tape keeps coming undone during the night), though witch hazel wipes have helped a lot once I discovered them. Maybe I should try out silicone tape again...

zonker wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 25, 2022 6:57 pm

jays scunci method is what i've been using for 6 years. it just plain works! i use it conjunction with a plain firm foam cervical collar. whatever that was you posted is overpriced. (dang it, i can't find the one i use!) try almost any cervical collar (firm foam, of curse) that you can find at your local drugstore. they'll be in the wellness aisle where the bed pans and crutches and such can be found.

the trick with the scunci is that it presses your lips down. the collar keeps your jaw up, together it works. i do a bit of "hacking" with it so it looks like this-

i use two scuncis. one goes around the upper portion of my mouth and then around my head. the second one goes around the lower portion then around the back of my neck. i didn't cut ear holes as jay did because apparently my head ain't shaped like jays. i also use an elastic band to help keep the scuncis compressed. the pic just shows one elastic but i use another across the top.

if you have any questions or if i didn't make something clear, pls be sure to ask. just by using this method, my ahi dropped a whole point. and mouth breathing isn't an issue for me any more.

good luck!

Thanks for the demo - I bought both the headbands and some elastics for the scunci method. Very much looking forward to trying it out, perhaps in conjunction with the mouth tape.

pisco21 wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 26, 2022 7:59 am

I do use the neoprene, but also have had good luck with Forzacx chin straps on Amazon. But I went back to neoprene as my jaw is heavy and the neoprene is stronger. My PCP actually recommended plastic surgery to remove my turkey wattle!! Never thought I'd have a Doctor recommending plastic surgery...

I'll admit that I haven't really used the neoprene straps since my first month or so of experimenting with cpap. I can put it on the list of things to try if these other ideas aren't panning out, but the backwards force on the lower jaw really did feel terrible. I'm also concerned about it from an orthodontics point of view - I currently use Invisalign and would be concerned about unwanted shifting from the chin strap.

To get rid of oil on the face, you can use alcohol wipes. They’re sold in large drugstores, often with supplies for diabetics, and they’re very inexpensive.

but even after a lot of experimentation, it still keeps making a weird whistling sound/sensation for me that is very unsettling during sleep - I think the air rushing past the plastic piece creates this feeling.

What experimentation? Do you have the black filter guard with the white little filters attached? I Think I know what you're trying to explain with the whistling, but that makes it sound to me like the clips weren't attached correctly to the connector piece. It shouldn't whistle at all. The dreamports weren't an overnight success for me either but I tried several different hose positions and stuff and eventually it worked out great. I still have bad days attaching the sticky parts, which are a one and done unfortunately, but most of the time it works.

I just wanted to recommend them because a lot of people on this forum I'm finding out are using them. The no headgear and less leaks is the main reason they are my go-to.

I think I want you to try them more because when you explain the knightsbridge cap, combined with a chin strap combined with tape combined with scrunchy makes me feel like that would be an exhausting regime to do every single night. It just seems like too much to me. Witch hazel wipes work well for me when attaching the dreamports and tape though.

Miss Emerita wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 26, 2022 8:34 pm

To get rid of oil on the face, you can use alcohol wipes. They’re sold in large drugstores, often with supplies for diabetics, and they’re very inexpensive.

Yes, I'm familiar. I've tried alcohol wipes before but they feel a little too harsh on the skin compared to witch hazel. Alcohol near the lips feels really uncomfortable and causes a burning sensation. Currently with the vertical paper taping, the witch hazel seems to be doing the trick, but alcohol might be appropriate for the less sensitive chin area

jlsmithseven wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 27, 2022 6:51 am

What experimentation? Do you have the black filter guard with the white little filters attached? I Think I know what you're trying to explain with the whistling, but that makes it sound to me like the clips weren't attached correctly to the connector piece. It shouldn't whistle at all. The dreamports weren't an overnight success for me either but I tried several different hose positions and stuff and eventually it worked out great. I still have bad days attaching the sticky parts, which are a one and done unfortunately, but most of the time it works.

I just wanted to recommend them because a lot of people on this forum I'm finding out are using them. The no headgear and less leaks is the main reason they are my go-to.

I think I want you to try them more because when you explain the knightsbridge cap, combined with a chin strap combined with tape combined with scrunchy makes me feel like that would be an exhausting regime to do every single night. It just seems like too much to me. Witch hazel wipes work well for me when attaching the dreamports and tape though.

It's a little hard to explain. I've tried it both with and without the black/white mesh, and I'm pretty sure they are irrelevant to the source of the issue. Somehow it seems that the shape of the holes aren't a good fit for my nostrils. It seems that the junction where the adhesive connects to the plastic component is the root cause, and as air rushes past it, it causes the whistling. It's not a leak per se... I recall looking around this forum and some other people have reported noticing this as well, and there seems to be no good solution if you're one of the unlucky people to encounter it. One person mentioned they got it to go away by trying out an experimental dreamport with different sized holes (which supports the idea that it's a size mismatch), but IIRC those are not in mass production.

I even got on a zoom call with the ceo of bleep to try to diagnose this issue step by step (by experimentation, I mean that he recommended that I try to attach the dreamports at all sorts of different angles. There was a day I just spent an hour in front of a mirror trying out all sorts of configurations and went through a month's worth of dreamports. But the whistling was always present). He was very gracious with his time and trying to get the product to work for me but unfortunately it just seems I'm not a good fit. That said I think the products are a great idea, and I am willing to give the Eclipse a try though when it comes out - hoping that the magnetic connectors won't have the same issue with the whistling. I would like the reduced headgear just to avoid irritating my face/acne.

With all that said, even if the bleep worked perfectly for me, I think I'd still need to figure out a good, tenable solution for the mouth breathing, and the tape/chin strap are all part of that. It's a hassle but I'm willing to put up with a lot for the sake of better sleep and to avoid causing any more damage to my dental health.

I have tried a wide variety of tapes and experienced the same issues you did. They worked for a while but not all night. I finally found success with the kind of silicon tape usually used to heal scars. (Not the blue kind of silicon tape but brown, made of just silicon.) Search for "silicon tape for scars" on Amazon and you will see a lot. (I use this one: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B076FHBDDD/?c ... _lig_pi_dp but I imagine it is not unique.

The tape is 1.6" wide and and I use about 5 inches at a time to cover my whole mouth. It is pricy but you can re-use it for several nights if you wash it under hot water each morning and let it dry. (I haven't tried soap on it.) I don't imagine the manufacturers want you to re-use it but it works.

It isn't foolproof but I rarely have issues. It comes off easily and I haven't had any issues with it irritating my skin. I clean my skin with alcohol on a washrag right before applying it.

Good luck!

Update, about 10 days worth of experimenting:

I'm frustrated. I thought I had found something great after the first two nights with the vertical paper tape going down to the chin. I would do 3 columns of tape going over the lips: left, middle, and right. Seemed to work perfectly the first two nights, no dry mouth. But in the days since then, it would get undone at some point in the night, or at least the adhesive near the bottom lip would loosen enough to create a small leak (even though it was still anchored. I think I need to be more thorough with the witch hazel wipes (I've tried alcohol wipes and they just burn like crazy) and figure out just the right way to tighten my lips before taping. Seems that pursing the lips too much allows for a tight seal initially, but somehow as the lips react during sleep, they can move around a bit and allow a leak. Very frustrating. Was using a cervical collar in conjunction with this. Have more or less dropped the knightsbridge chin strap (would always rotate forward on my head throughout the night, causing the straps to go slack), using the simpler loopy style elastic strap.

I did try the scunci method once or twice - even after cutting holes for ears, it really hurts my ears to the point where it was sore the entire next day. Also didn't quite prevent the mouth breathing as much as I had hoped. I used two scunci bands in addition to two elastics to add a bit more compression. Will try to experiment with it more soon.

I may try the larger, resusable piece of tape that one of the users here suggested if these methods just don't seem like they are panning out. I'm still motivated to keep trying - the first night or two with the vertical tape was some of the best sleep I've had in years and want to tune variables until I can recreate that.

ReverseBall wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 26, 2022 8:15 pm

The current paper tape I'm using from cvs doesn't seem to bother me too much, though I find that vertical taping is a lot easier on the skin than horizontal.

No amount of vertical tape can help me, since I am a mouth leaker, and the leaking is caused by the pressure opening the valve between my nose and mouth. nothing to do with my jaw dropping, or with "mouth breathing".
When awake, I can breathe through my nose while my mouth is wide open - no problem at all.
When asleep, it's another story. I will have air streaming out of my mouth and drying it, unless my lips are totally sealed from side to side.

Therefore, any solution that doesn't keep the air from escaping through my lips is useless for me. Good horizontal taping left to right taping is crucial in this case. And that means the tape that is best for your skin. A kind of tape that is no bother at all.
Two have been mentioned by others on this thread.
My preference is Medvance Soft Silicone Tape. I can do with 1", some people need more.

The text I quoted means you're compromising on a perfect seal of your lips - yes it works some time, but clearly not always - as you've seen.

Alternatively, try a full face mask.

ozij wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 06, 2022 9:45 pm

Therefore, any solution that doesn't keep the air from escaping through my lips is useless for me. Good horizontal taping left to right taping is crucial in this case. And that means the tape that is best for your skin. A kind of tape that is no bother at all.
Two have been mentioned by others on this thread.
My preference is Medvance Soft Silicone Tape. I can do with 1", some people need more.

I'll try out the silicone tape you recommended. The issue as I see it is that my skin gets extremely oily. I've tried using silicone and paper tapes horizontally in the past, and they come totally undone after a few hours (especially silicone). Something about the way the horizontal tape contours over the lips is less than ideal in conjunction with my skin being more oily than most, and I've found that vertical taping helps get it a lot more secure. That said I'm willing to give horizontal taping another try because I've not experimented with it in conjunction with witch hazel wipes, which have done a lot to help out the oil situation.

On days that I'm being super attentive about wiping my mouth clean, vertical taping does the trick. But more experimentation is needed in these directions.