SleepHQ--Any New Constructive Suggestions for Them?

Rubicon wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:52 am

I'm also not real happy about his thinly veiled threat:

adampal wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 28, 2022 8:24 am

I had a few people send me links to this thread raising concerns people here might be deliberately trying to disrupt the new community forum we just started for SleepHQ. What you guys choose to allow/disallow on this forum is completely up to you. But as one of the moderators and owners of SleepHQ, I'm not ok with any form of harassment or deliberately trying to take away from the experience of CPAP users on our forum who are trying to educate themselves and create better life outcomes.

I don't see anything disruptive in this thread. If there is he should quote them specifically. Personally and IMO my comments are absolutely valid and he should address them.

That is, if his purpose is to improve his board and not flex beer muscles.

I agree with you Rubicon.

Near as I can tell, adampal seems to regard any factual comments about things that are not working at SleepHQ or comments about how posts that dissent from Uncle Nicko's gospel truth are not particularly welcome at SleepHQ as trying to "disrupt" the new SleepHQ community forum they're trying to build.

In reality, we're pointing out some things over there need some improvements---both in terms of basic bug fixes and in terms of tolerating posts that politely disagree with Uncle Nicko's gospel truth and intelligently discuss real problems, such as why it is close to impossible to identify REM with any level of confidence from just flow rate and respiratory rate data.

zonker wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 28, 2022 4:38 pm

but please DO read the entire thread.

Well, maybe skip my bump posts.

lazarus wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 28, 2022 5:01 pm

zonker wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 28, 2022 4:38 pm

but please DO read the entire thread.

Well, maybe skip my bump posts.

not ME! quite often, your oblique references keep me scratching my head. and my hard head needs lots of scratching, let me tell ya.

Maybe I misunderstood the reference here. My interpretation was that "Suicide by Moderator" was a reference to being deliberately disruptive with the goal of being kicked off the forum.

Rubicon wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 28, 2022 5:51 am

ozij wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 27, 2022 10:11 pm

I find it telling that all this communication is between the Respirator99 and Adam.

And hopefully between Respirator99 and Nick too.

I want him to know what's coming and realize there's nothing he can do about it.

Although there's still that Suicide by Moderator thing...

The following two quotes are interesting. I clearly don't have the context of how humor is usually presented on this forum but to an outsider they could easily be interpreted as death threats. Now, I'm sure that's not what was intended. But you may find newcomers to your forum here are put off by content like that.

palerider wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 27, 2022 12:05 pm

lazarus wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 27, 2022 5:10 am

Rubicon wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 27, 2022 3:59 am

my absolutely best behavior

I'm sure you can counter bad info while letting them live.

Wouldn't it be better for all of us if he DIDN'T?

You know, cull the herd, chlorinate the gene pool a little.

chunkyfrog wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 27, 2022 12:25 pm

Try ivermectin . . .
It worked before.

adampal wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 28, 2022 8:11 pm

Maybe I misunderstood the reference here. My interpretation was that "Suicide by Moderator" was a reference to being deliberately disruptive with the goal of being kicked off the forum.

More like pointing out inconvenient facts that don't agree with some BS the moderator wants to promote.

adampal wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 28, 2022 8:11 pm

The following two quotes are interesting. I clearly don't have the context of how humor is usually presented on this forum but to an outsider they could easily be interpreted as death threats.

SERIOUSLY???

Have you ever been on the internet before?

adampal wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 28, 2022 8:11 pm

But you may find newcomers to your forum here are put off by content like that.

This forum isn't for the thinned skinned, just the people that want *accurate* information, if you want a softer gentler place to hang out, there's other places on the internet.

"Letting them live" (my words) refers to 'live and let live,' as in 'let them be.'

"Suicide by moderator" (not my words) is a bit of in-joke about (somewhat) former times on another board at which the moderators got a bit out of hand and unwelcoming to dissenting, and even balancing, voices. It is one of the reasons this board now exists. Some here have taken stands on other boards for putting patient and public ahead of board policy, and that did not always go well in one sense but is now legendary on multiple apnea boards in another sense.

"Seeing what's coming" (not my words) is more about the need for 'holding up a mirror to realize where one may be headed with how a board is being run.' That's how I read it, anyway.

The gene pool and herd reference (not my words), as I read it, was more a matter of asking, 'Why go help prop up a forum that seems to be headed in a less-than-helpful direction? Keep this forum strong so it can survive.' A lot of SDB forums have dried up or have squeezed themselves out of existence with policy and by insistence on a singular vision. It is the public that ultimately does the culling, not us. Discussion ends where no one is allowed to discuss anything. Many here also post elsewhere. It's not a competition.

I read the ivermectin-debacle quip (again, not my words) as more about recognizing serious danger in blindly trusting (swallowing/injecting/accepting) what self-appointed authorities recommend. A lot of people did what was damaging to themselves in this country by unquestioningly believing what they read on the Internet. Like, in single-minded forums.

I don't defend anyone's word choices or communication styles. Not even my own. And I speak for no one. Just sharing what I thought I heard. I know I can be naive and clueless, though. And maybe I missed what was being implied.

Speaking for myself, I genuinely want your product to be the best it can be. And I genuinely want your forum to be helpful to patients, up front, and accurate. And I genuinely believe that is pretty much the wish of everyone here, despite some expressed disappointments in your product to date and expressed misgivings about the future of your board in it's potential for reflecting what makes a great OSA/CPAP forum thrive and educate.

I'll try to be more careful with my own words and tone, though. Good reminder. Sorry if anything I said was offensive.

I can hear the tumblers clicking--this thread has decayed close to locked status

lazarus wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 28, 2022 9:50 pm

Very well said!

lazarus wrote: Speaking for myself, I genuinely want your product to be the best it can be. And I genuinely want your forum to be helpful to patients, up front, and accurate. And I genuinely believe that is pretty much the wish of everyone here, despite some expressed disappointments in your product to date and expressed misgivings about the future of your board in it's potential for reflecting what makes a great OSA/CPAP forum thrive and educate.

And this is my feeling too.

adampal wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 28, 2022 8:11 pm

My interpretation was that "Suicide by Moderator" was a reference to being deliberately disruptive with the goal of being kicked off the forum.

Oh no! A sophomoric attempt at diversion to avoid the real issues! You guys are big on that!

I would be more than happy to change my metaphor to "Doing a Nathan Hale" but that sounds a little too righteous.

At any rate, it refers to an abuse of power by moderators in order to cover their mistakes and inadequacies.

So at this point I want you to reopen the "rem sleep" thread in "Ask For Help" with an apology from Nick for closing the thread because he was in over his head.

I also want you to post the links to the 2 SleepHQ files that he referenced in that thread. Probably post them here on cpaptalk cause I don't think you guys are ready for that depth of discussion.

Love, hearts, flowers, unicorns, rainbows, oxoxox, etc. R.

lazarus wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 28, 2022 9:50 pm

Speaking for myself, I genuinely want your product to be the best it can be. And I genuinely want your forum to be helpful to patients, up front, and accurate. And I genuinely believe that is pretty much the wish of everyone here...

Well...

OK seriously, I've used and recommended SleepHQ. Aside from 2 or 3 issues (more like inconveniences) I think it's great.

They wanted criticism (probably "constructive", but I guess that depends upon one's point of view) to improve their product and they got it.

Ya think Nick still thinks whatever he says magically becomes true?

Doubt it.

Ya think Adam is going to become a better PR guy running damage control?

Dunno about that one. Don't think he sees/understands the big picture yet.

Rubicon wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 29, 2022 4:22 am

Love, hearts, flowers, unicorns, rainbows, oxoxox, etc. R.

NOW yer gettin' into the spirit of the thing! * group hug *

Rubicon wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 29, 2022 5:02 am

OK seriously, I've used and recommended SleepHQ. Aside from 2 or 3 issues (more like inconveniences) I think it's great.

I.D., please. But keep yer hands where I can see 'em (so I can make sure your fingers aren't crossed behind yer back).

Rubicon wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 29, 2022 5:02 am

wanted criticism (probably "constructive", but I guess that depends upon one's point of view) to improve their product and they got it.

All companies ask for it; few actually enjoy getting it; great ones live for it and hang on every word.

Rubicon wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 29, 2022 5:02 am

Ya think Nick still thinks whatever he says magically becomes true?

I don't doubt his primary conscious motives, but his public persona may matter to him at this moment more than ever before in his life. It certainly matters to his wallet. And that's the world we live in once we bring a widget to market, whether any of us like it or not.

Rubicon wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 29, 2022 5:02 am

Ya think Adam is going to become a better PR guy running damage control?

I honestly think he/they will, to tell you the truth. I see great potential. Takes time, though. And sometimes a bit of training. Otherwise, it's generally learned the hard way, and that works too. Are you applying for the PR position yourself? Because I nominate PR for PR.

Rubicon wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 29, 2022 5:02 am

Don't think he sees/understands the big picture yet.

Eh, what company fully does? They usually have to frame a small section of reality out of context first, just like studies.

I still have high hopes for the entire enterprise, though, as far as improving their product and focusing more on transparency. That usually requires a trained separate hire or outside consultant in the room, but hey you and Ozij and RobySue1 and others have been golden on shining a light on much of the picture and context for them. I'm sure it's a frantic time for them at the moment. And seeing ourselves as others see us isn't easy for any of us. (Nod to "To a Louse" by Bobbie Burns.)

But I'm still in cast-bread-on-waters mode and haven't yet reached pearls-before-swine mode with them.

Hey, just me.

lazarus wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 29, 2022 8:34 am

...cast-bread-on-waters ...

Never understood that one.

I mean, did you ever actually cast your bread on the water? Or better yet, chopped-up bunker with a school of bluefish around?

Forget about finding it days later. It's like gone in 30 seconds!

No wonder why they needed The Big Guy to tell 'em where the fish were...

lazarus wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 29, 2022 8:34 am

Rubicon wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 29, 2022 5:02 am

Don't think he sees/understands the big picture yet.

Eh, what company fully does? They usually have to frame a small section of reality out of context first, just like studies.

I still have high hopes for the entire enterprise, though, as far as improving their product and focusing more on transparency. That usually requires a trained separate hire or outside consultant in the room, but hey you and Ozij and RobySue1 and others have been golden on shining a light on much of the picture and context for them. I'm sure it's a frantic time for them at the moment. And seeing ourselves as others see us isn't easy for any of us. (Nod to "To a Louse" by Bobbie Burns.)

To improve their produce and focus on transparency a company has to be willing to listen to those outside voices---regardless of whether they're paid outside consultants or just knowledgeable folks in the target customer groups.

At this point, I hope SleepHQ does start listening. But right now I think they're still underestimating the real problems that need to be fixed before going live with the pay version as well as underestimating the number of folks who are going to be willing to pay for the pay version.

And the sad thing is: If they cared more about fixing the known bugs instead of adding a bunch more bells & whistles hoping to get folks to pay, they'd be more likely to make money in the long run.

robysue1 wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:11 am

No argument at all with that assessment of the present.

But, just as you say, there's hope and time, and I don't think it's a lost cause.

Yet.

Although I did abandon Twitter.

Just to throw in some drive by information as I used to be both a consumer and a message board moderator for a social media + virtual reality app company called IMVU.As far as SleepHQ still in "Beta" but also charging users for their premium services, that's not a new business model. IMVU started in 2004 and didn't drop their beta status until about 2010. They were charging consumers for a variety of premium products. Moderators are generally hired on by the company to keep the peace on their community board and do lock topics that get too heated (name calling, personal insults etc). I did my fair share of having to lock topics or delete posts on their long defunct message board. I've not been on SleepHQ's message board, so I don't know what exactly is going on, though after reading this thread, I may look just to give a proper judgement. I'm not nosey but I like to know everything.

IMHO selling premium services while in beta testing is sketchy but it's a business model that works because it does attract new consumers. The sketchy part though is decision making and not being forthright to the consumers. That leads to significant decrease in consumers. Let's hope that the SleepHQ founders and staff get through the pride and remember that in order to be a good business, they have to be willingly open to accept both positive and negative criticism of their consumers and use those criticisms to approve their product.