Is it a high possibility that my severe fatigue and other symptoms are caused by sleep apnea? WatchPAT ONE home study sh

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
Dylanmatthew
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Is it a high possibility that my severe fatigue and other symptoms are caused by sleep apnea? WatchPAT ONE home study sh

Post by Dylanmatthew » Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:53 am

https://imgur.com/a/VLH3h5W -Sleep study.



For the past 5 years I have felt awful. Every morning I wake up with deep circles under my eyes, frequent yawning during the day, dull headaches often, feeling fatigue/malaise like I have a flu virus, NEVER feel refreshed in the mornings, sometimes I randomly wake up in the middle of the night.

I am struggling to live life. I feel no enjoyment. I don't laugh or smile. Very depressed. I gave up on getting blood testing done as I was told I am always fine by my doctor.



I have my dad's hand me down Philips Dreamstation. I removed the foam. I have a full face mask and a nasal pillow. I CAN NOT FALL ASLEEP WITH IT! The pressure is uncomfortable and makes it feel weird when I breath. I always give up...

lynninnj
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Re: Is it a high possibility that my severe fatigue and other symptoms are caused by sleep apnea? WatchPAT ONE home stud

Post by lynninnj » Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:59 am

Dylanmatthew wrote:
Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:53 am
https://imgur.com/a/VLH3h5W -Sleep study.



For the past 5 years I have felt awful. Every morning I wake up with deep circles under my eyes, frequent yawning during the day, dull headaches often, feeling fatigue/malaise like I have a flu virus, NEVER feel refreshed in the mornings, sometimes I randomly wake up in the middle of the night.

I am struggling to live life. I feel no enjoyment. I don't laugh or smile. Very depressed. I gave up on getting blood testing done as I was told I am always fine by my doctor.



I have my dad's hand me down Philips Dreamstation. I removed the foam. I have a full face mask and a nasal pillow. I CAN NOT FALL ASLEEP WITH IT! The pressure is uncomfortable and makes it feel weird when I breath. I always give up...
Random question: how are your platelets when you get a CBC done? (not an answer to your query but just wondering) Do you also get tested for things like thyroid etc?

Sorry that I am still new to the CPAP stuff and not sure i can answer in an educated fashion.

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Miss Emerita
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Re: Is it a high possibility that my severe fatigue and other symptoms are caused by sleep apnea? WatchPAT ONE home stud

Post by Miss Emerita » Sat Aug 27, 2022 11:26 am

For others reading this thread, see this earlier thread:

viewtopic/t184629/Struggling-with-FATIG ... ailed.html

I'm sorry you continue to feel tired and depressed. I can't really visualize the changes you made to your father's old Dreamstation, and I'm not sure what kind of mask you're using. Can you clarify?

I know that cost is an issue, but you might want to try finding a good, used ResMed Airsense 10 Autoset machine. Some people (me included), find that this machine seems to support breathing more naturally.

I think you tried a P10 mask in the past; is that right? If so, how did it go? What led you to switch to a full-face mask (if that's in fact what you've done).

Have you tried using the machine and mask during the day or evening to help you get used to the set-up? Doing that for a week or two could be a help to you.

As for the question in your thread title: I don't think anyone can estimate the likelihood of the correct diagnosis of your symptoms. I've suggested you see a rheumatologist; you might benefit from seeing an allergist or ENT; you might want to try new anti-depressants. And I'll add that you might benefit from some sessions with a therapist, who could help you get some more insight into your loneliness and weariness.
Oscar software is available at https://www.sleepfiles.com/OSCAR/

Dylanmatthew
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Re: Is it a high possibility that my severe fatigue and other symptoms are caused by sleep apnea? WatchPAT ONE home stud

Post by Dylanmatthew » Sun Sep 04, 2022 11:48 am

Miss Emerita wrote:
Sat Aug 27, 2022 11:26 am
For others reading this thread, see this earlier thread:

viewtopic/t184629/Struggling-with-FATIG ... ailed.html

I'm sorry you continue to feel tired and depressed. I can't really visualize the changes you made to your father's old Dreamstation, and I'm not sure what kind of mask you're using. Can you clarify?

I know that cost is an issue, but you might want to try finding a good, used ResMed Airsense 10 Autoset machine. Some people (me included), find that this machine seems to support breathing more naturally.

I think you tried a P10 mask in the past; is that right? If so, how did it go? What led you to switch to a full-face mask (if that's in fact what you've done).

Have you tried using the machine and mask during the day or evening to help you get used to the set-up? Doing that for a week or two could be a help to you.

As for the question in your thread title: I don't think anyone can estimate the likelihood of the correct diagnosis of your symptoms. I've suggested you see a rheumatologist; you might benefit from seeing an allergist or ENT; you might want to try new anti-depressants. And I'll add that you might benefit from some sessions with a therapist, who could help you get some more insight into your loneliness and weariness.
Hey, sorry for the late reply.

I have been mainly using the P10 nasal pillows on the nights I attempt to use the machine. I am a side sleeper and the full face mask was more likely to have leaks. Also, I don't mouth breathe.

I can not afford a Resmed Airsense 10. BUT my dad has an unopened Philips Dreamstation 2 he doesn't need. Would this one work better than the current dreamstation I am trying to use?

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Dog Slobber
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Re: Is it a high possibility that my severe fatigue and other symptoms are caused by sleep apnea? WatchPAT ONE home stud

Post by Dog Slobber » Sun Sep 04, 2022 12:56 pm

Dylanmatthew wrote:
Sun Sep 04, 2022 11:48 am
Would this one work better than the current dreamstation I am trying to use?
If by "working better" you mean easier for you to accept, use and commit to; then no it will work about the same.

For the past year and a half, every few months you show up, post a new topic and then create a post similar to the previous topic.

What you need to do is commit to CPAP, post charts and get help with sticking with it. It seems try it for a few days take the mask off, then don't put it on for a few months then start a new topic, starting all over again. You haven't resolved any of the issues that prevented success the last time and can't progress.

Dylanmatthew
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Re: Is it a high possibility that my severe fatigue and other symptoms are caused by sleep apnea? WatchPAT ONE home stud

Post by Dylanmatthew » Sun Sep 04, 2022 2:33 pm

Dog Slobber wrote:
Sun Sep 04, 2022 12:56 pm
Dylanmatthew wrote:
Sun Sep 04, 2022 11:48 am
Would this one work better than the current dreamstation I am trying to use?
If by "working better" you mean easier for you to accept, use and commit to; then no it will work about the same.

For the past year and a half, every few months you show up, post a new topic and then create a post similar to the previous topic.

What you need to do is commit to CPAP, post charts and get help with sticking with it. It seems try it for a few days take the mask off, then don't put it on for a few months then start a new topic, starting all over again. You haven't resolved any of the issues that prevented success the last time and can't progress.
I don't know what to say to this...
Okay, I thought of a response. You're right. I haven't tried hard enough to get used to my APAP machine. I give up quickly and complain on online forums too easily. It's pathetic and unproductive. I feel awful and I don't solve the issue.

I will stop complaining and stop posting on here until I get some solid data and post the charts. I will just adjust my settings from 5-20 and go from there.

Thanks for the reality check.

clownbell
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Re: Is it a high possibility that my severe fatigue and other symptoms are caused by sleep apnea? WatchPAT ONE home stud

Post by clownbell » Sun Sep 04, 2022 2:58 pm

Dylan - Sometimes tough love is appropriate, and DogSlobber has done that for you.

May I suggest you start talking to yourself. Things like:
CPAP is my friend.
CPAP will improve my sleep and overall quality of life.
CPAP can help lower blood pressure and mitigate the risk of future cardiac events and other health issues.
I absolutely WILL learn to do this. I am resilient enough that I will persevere.

Mantras like this helped me get over the hump, maybe will do the same for you. Keep it positive. Recite reasons why you CAN and WILL do this, rather than reasons why you can't/won't.

Time, patience and perseverance will accomplish all things.
ResMed AirSense 10 Autoset with built in humidifier
Resmed P10 pillow mask

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Dog Slobber
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Re: Is it a high possibility that my severe fatigue and other symptoms are caused by sleep apnea? WatchPAT ONE home stud

Post by Dog Slobber » Sun Sep 04, 2022 3:36 pm

Dylanmatthew wrote:
Sun Sep 04, 2022 2:33 pm
Dog Slobber wrote:
Sun Sep 04, 2022 12:56 pm
Dylanmatthew wrote:
Sun Sep 04, 2022 11:48 am
Would this one work better than the current dreamstation I am trying to use?
If by "working better" you mean easier for you to accept, use and commit to; then no it will work about the same.

For the past year and a half, every few months you show up, post a new topic and then create a post similar to the previous topic.

What you need to do is commit to CPAP, post charts and get help with sticking with it. It seems try it for a few days take the mask off, then don't put it on for a few months then start a new topic, starting all over again. You haven't resolved any of the issues that prevented success the last time and can't progress.
I don't know what to say to this...
Okay, I thought of a response. You're right. I haven't tried hard enough to get used to my APAP machine. I give up quickly and complain on online forums too easily. It's pathetic and unproductive. I feel awful and I don't solve the issue.

I will stop complaining and stop posting on here until I get some solid data and post the charts. I will just adjust my settings from 5-20 and go from there.

Thanks for the reality check.
No, disappearing and coming back with some data is not what you should do.

Post some graphs so we can see your device settings.
  • Describe the problems you having and we'll solve them, one problem at a time. ie:
  • Feeling air starved - increase minimum pressure
  • Trouble exhaling - Turn on/up EPR/Flex, maybe cap maximum
  • Feeling congestion - adjust humidity
  • Anxiety - wear it while watching tv
  • Poor sleep quality - Sleep Hygiene
  • Aerophagia - cap Max pressure
  • more..... but need feedback
You're feeling bad, feeling bad about yourself, use this topic to get started on why you haven't been successful.

I'd start with:
  • Pressure: 7-14
    Ramp: Pressure 6, 15 minutes (we can adjust this depending on how you feel about pressure and time to fall asleep)
    Humidity: 4 (don't know if you have a heated hose) Once again we can adjust but we need feedback
    Mask: Stick with your p10
    Flex: 3
We aren't interested in optimizing (yet), we're interested in acceptance.

Check back regularly, don't start another topic. Give feedback.

If you pull your mask off or go a night without, no big deal. Stop beating yourself up and put it on again.

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Rubicon
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Re: Is it a high possibility that my severe fatigue and other symptoms are caused by sleep apnea? WatchPAT ONE home stud

Post by Rubicon » Sun Sep 04, 2022 4:16 pm

So you had 6 desats in the first sleep study, and 9 desats in the second study.

Who told you you have sleep apnea?
Freeze this moment a little bit longer.
Make each sensation a little bit stronger.
Experience slips away.

Dylanmatthew
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Re: Is it a high possibility that my severe fatigue and other symptoms are caused by sleep apnea? WatchPAT ONE home stud

Post by Dylanmatthew » Mon Sep 05, 2022 11:18 am

Rubicon wrote:
Sun Sep 04, 2022 4:16 pm
So you had 6 desats in the first sleep study, and 9 desats in the second study.

Who told you you have sleep apnea?
Before I reply to the longer posts above, I will answer your question. The WatchPAT ONE home study shows RDI of 15.5. That is moderate sleep apnea.

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Rubicon
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Re: Is it a high possibility that my severe fatigue and other symptoms are caused by sleep apnea? WatchPAT ONE home stud

Post by Rubicon » Mon Sep 05, 2022 12:30 pm

Dylanmatthew wrote:
Mon Sep 05, 2022 11:18 am
Rubicon wrote:
Sun Sep 04, 2022 4:16 pm
So you had 6 desats in the first sleep study, and 9 desats in the second study.

Who told you you have sleep apnea?
Before I reply to the longer posts above, I will answer your question. The WatchPAT ONE home study shows RDI of 15.5. That is moderate sleep apnea.
OK so it's not RDI of 15.5, it's pRDI which isn't the same thing. WatchPAT doesn't actually measure breathing.

More important, if you have only 9 desaturations you can't have an RDI or pRDI of 15.5, the most it can be is 1.4 because hypopneas require a 3% or 4% drop (depending on which rule you use). WatchPAT itself says that's how it should be scored:

Image

It appears to me that whoever reviewed this record...

...didn't.
Freeze this moment a little bit longer.
Make each sensation a little bit stronger.
Experience slips away.

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Rubicon
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Re: Is it a high possibility that my severe fatigue and other symptoms are caused by sleep apnea? WatchPAT ONE home stud

Post by Rubicon » Mon Sep 05, 2022 12:47 pm

You might make a case for some respiratory events if there was snoring present, but it appears than any snoring occured during wake or movement:

Image
Freeze this moment a little bit longer.
Make each sensation a little bit stronger.
Experience slips away.

Dylanmatthew
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Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2021 5:17 pm

Re: Is it a high possibility that my severe fatigue and other symptoms are caused by sleep apnea? WatchPAT ONE home stud

Post by Dylanmatthew » Mon Sep 05, 2022 4:36 pm

Rubicon wrote:
Mon Sep 05, 2022 12:47 pm
You might make a case for some respiratory events if there was snoring present, but it appears than any snoring occured during wake or movement:

Image
According to the Watchpat One I don't even have sleep apnea?

I am trying to grasp all this. I just want an answer on why my fatigue is so bad...

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Julie
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Re: Is it a high possibility that my severe fatigue and other symptoms are caused by sleep apnea? WatchPAT ONE home stud

Post by Julie » Mon Sep 05, 2022 6:30 pm

Feeling lousy can be caused by a million things - your doctor could refer you to lots of specialists or just do labwork and then refer to the most appropriate one (including a sleep doctor). But Watch Pat is not the standard test for sleep apnea - only looks at certain aspects, so a proper sleep lab test should be done (and could be done at home if you get the right equipment and info from your MD, sleep MD or sleep lab (when referred). You're cheating yourself trying to make apnea fit (or vice versa) but it's only prolonging things... and if your PC won't refer you or do it to appropriate specialists, change your PC!

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ozij
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Re: Is it a high possibility that my severe fatigue and other symptoms are caused by sleep apnea? WatchPAT ONE home stud

Post by ozij » Mon Sep 05, 2022 8:56 pm

Rubicon wrote:
Mon Sep 05, 2022 12:30 pm

OK so it's not RDI of 15.5, it's pRDI which isn't the same thing. WatchPAT doesn't actually measure breathing.
:?: And what is a pRDI?

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