Variable Breathing - Philips v Resmed question

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Captain howdy
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Variable Breathing - Philips v Resmed question

Post by Captain howdy » Thu Aug 11, 2022 7:28 am

Hello. First time thread long time lurker etc etc... I'll try and make it brief. I started CPAP a while back, but have only got the machine dialled in over the last few months and as a result my AHI and events are really low and my sleep has definitely improved. But i'm still not waking super refreshed and i still think that i could make some improvements. The one constant that remains is the Variable Breathing. It is often around 20%. I have read that many people when switching to the Resmed machine, find that their VB reduces significantly. So i have a few questions.

Is there any changes that i could be making to improve the VB on my current Philips machine?
Is VB really making a difference to my sleep?
People that have made the switch to a Resmed and reduced their VB - how do you feel now?

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Pugsy
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Re: Variable Breathing - Philips v Resmed question

Post by Pugsy » Thu Aug 11, 2022 7:59 am

Respironics has never really explained the importance, or lack of, with the variable breathing statistic that their machines provide....at least I have never seen it explained.

To my knowledge I have never seen a ResMed machine give a variable breathing report so I don't know if they even bother with it. So I don't know if anyone can answer your questions.
I know my own ResMed AirCurve 10 VAuto (and prior AutoSets) doesn't/didn't ever report variable breathing.
In the past when I did use a Respironics machine it was a model that didn't report variable breathing.
So I don't know if I ever had anything that the newer models would report as VB.

In general most people who have made the switch from a Respironics machine to a ResMed machine have said that they like the ResMed better for various reasons. There have been a few outliers but not many.

I see you are using the "Pro" model Respironics DreamStation....that's fixed pressure only and it doesn't record flow limitations in fixed pressure mode. So you are missing that data point. I don't know how critical that might be to your situation but ResMed machines that are full data all record flow limitations as a data point no matter what mode.
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Captain howdy
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Re: Variable Breathing - Philips v Resmed question

Post by Captain howdy » Sat Aug 13, 2022 8:51 pm

Pugsy wrote:
Thu Aug 11, 2022 7:59 am
Respironics has never really explained the importance, or lack of, with the variable breathing statistic that their machines provide....at least I have never seen it explained.

To my knowledge I have never seen a ResMed machine give a variable breathing report so I don't know if they even bother with it. So I don't know if anyone can answer your questions.
I know my own ResMed AirCurve 10 VAuto (and prior AutoSets) doesn't/didn't ever report variable breathing.
In the past when I did use a Respironics machine it was a model that didn't report variable breathing.
So I don't know if I ever had anything that the newer models would report as VB.

In general most people who have made the switch from a Respironics machine to a ResMed machine have said that they like the ResMed better for various reasons. There have been a few outliers but not many.

I see you are using the "Pro" model Respironics DreamStation....that's fixed pressure only and it doesn't record flow limitations in fixed pressure mode. So you are missing that data point. I don't know how critical that might be to your situation but ResMed machines that are full data all record flow limitations as a data point no matter what mode.
Thanks for the reply! Can you run me through the importance of flow limitations, or link me to something? I'm actually going to trial a Resmed machine for a couple of weeks. My Philips is due for recall anyway and am thinking I might get a Resmed and try to sell whatever Philips replace it with.
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palerider
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Re: Variable Breathing - Philips v Resmed question

Post by palerider » Sun Aug 14, 2022 5:10 pm

Captain howdy wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 8:51 pm
Thanks for the reply! Can you run me through the importance of flow limitations, or link me to something? I'm actually going to trial a Resmed machine for a couple of weeks. My Philips is due for recall anyway and am thinking I might get a Resmed and try to sell whatever Philips replace it with.
Unfortunately there's nothing that can be gleaned from the pic you provided, perhaps if you picked one of the shorter flagged vb sections and zoomed in so it was full width of the screen... maybe.

Flow Limitations are times when your airflow rate is limited because your airway is narrowed, which makes you have to work harder to breathe, reducing your rest.

Flow limited breaths have a characteristic flattened shape, instead of a nicely rounded hump, which is normal breathing.

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Re: Variable Breathing - Philips v Resmed question

Post by Captain howdy » Sun Aug 14, 2022 10:32 pm

palerider wrote:
Sun Aug 14, 2022 5:10 pm
Captain howdy wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 8:51 pm
Thanks for the reply! Can you run me through the importance of flow limitations, or link me to something? I'm actually going to trial a Resmed machine for a couple of weeks. My Philips is due for recall anyway and am thinking I might get a Resmed and try to sell whatever Philips replace it with.
Unfortunately there's nothing that can be gleaned from the pic you provided, perhaps if you picked one of the shorter flagged vb sections and zoomed in so it was full width of the screen... maybe.

Flow Limitations are times when your airflow rate is limited because your airway is narrowed, which makes you have to work harder to breathe, reducing your rest.

Flow limited breaths have a characteristic flattened shape, instead of a nicely rounded hump, which is normal breathing.
Thankyou so much for the reply. That explains it nicely. From what I understand, Resmed machines do a lot better job at reacting to flow limitations. Which is why I believe a change to Resmed is a better idea. As you can see my numbers are consistantly pretty good, but i'm just not feeling 100% rested.. ever.

Here are some zoomed in sections: https://imgur.com/a/sKR3fNx
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Re: Variable Breathing - Philips v Resmed question

Post by palerider » Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:05 am

Captain howdy wrote:
Sun Aug 14, 2022 10:32 pm
From what I understand, Resmed machines do a lot better job at reacting to flow limitations.
Resmed just does a better job at reacting period, in all aspects. :)
Captain howdy wrote:
Sun Aug 14, 2022 10:32 pm
Here are some zoomed in sections: https://imgur.com/a/sKR3fNx
I don't see anything that looks even vaguely worrying in those two screenshots, other than less than perfect breathing, anything in your sleep could be affecting that.

I'd ignore that 'variable breathing', I think it's just another meaningless 'thing' that philips throws into the data stream to make it look like they 'do more', when actually they don't.

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Captain howdy
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Re: Variable Breathing - Philips v Resmed question

Post by Captain howdy » Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:47 pm

palerider wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:05 am
Captain howdy wrote:
Sun Aug 14, 2022 10:32 pm
From what I understand, Resmed machines do a lot better job at reacting to flow limitations.
Resmed just does a better job at reacting period, in all aspects. :)
Captain howdy wrote:
Sun Aug 14, 2022 10:32 pm
Here are some zoomed in sections: https://imgur.com/a/sKR3fNx
I don't see anything that looks even vaguely worrying in those two screenshots, other than less than perfect breathing, anything in your sleep could be affecting that.

I'd ignore that 'variable breathing', I think it's just another meaningless 'thing' that philips throws into the data stream to make it look like they 'do more', when actually they don't.
Thanks for the reply. Well, I'm going to jump on the Resmed wagon. Good Aussie company. It's got to be good!
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Re: Variable Breathing - Philips v Resmed question

Post by palerider » Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:02 pm

Captain howdy wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:47 pm
Thanks for the reply. Well, I'm going to jump on the Resmed wagon. Good Aussie company. It's got to be good!
A long time ago, long before it came out that Philips was using crappy foam in their machines because they'd apparently rather put their customers at risk in order to save a few cents, I came up with a list of "why Resmed machines are better" and conversely a "why philips machines are better".. the Philips list came down to "they're cheaper".

Among things that I remember offhand, besides the Resmed's being more responsive to breathing issues, they're also better engineered, and better built, (having taken apart more than a few of them, and a couple Respironics machines), they've got a larger water capacity, and a bunch of other small things, like including a padded carrying case (something you have to buy separately with philps).

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Captain howdy
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Re: Variable Breathing - Philips v Resmed question

Post by Captain howdy » Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:11 pm

palerider wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:02 pm
Captain howdy wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:47 pm
Thanks for the reply. Well, I'm going to jump on the Resmed wagon. Good Aussie company. It's got to be good!
A long time ago, long before it came out that Philips was using crappy foam in their machines because they'd apparently rather put their customers at risk in order to save a few cents, I came up with a list of "why Resmed machines are better" and conversely a "why philips machines are better".. the Philips list came down to "they're cheaper".

Among things that I remember offhand, besides the Resmed's being more responsive to breathing issues, they're also better engineered, and better built, (having taken apart more than a few of them, and a couple Respironics machines), they've got a larger water capacity, and a bunch of other small things, like including a padded carrying case (something you have to buy separately with philps).
For me. I have gotten the best I can from my Philips. My scores are all really good. I am sleeping better than I was. But think I could do better. My thoughts are that Philips slower response to breathing issues are still causing me disturbances. Especially later in the night. So I'm going to give Resmed a go and hope that their better response time helps. If it doesn't I haven't lost anything. At least I'll have a better built machine by a better company and supporting local economy. And then I can sell whatever Philips replace mine with.
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Captain howdy
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Re: Variable Breathing - Philips v Resmed question

Post by Captain howdy » Sat Aug 20, 2022 6:13 am

Purchased my Resmed Airsense 10 Auto! Lookingfoward to giving it a go. But been suffering from post Covid lungs and throat so i can't use my CPAP for a bit. Have an inhaler that should help. Fingers crossed I can fire up the Resmed soon!
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Re: Variable Breathing - Philips v Resmed question

Post by Dog Slobber » Sat Aug 20, 2022 6:22 am

Captain howdy wrote:
Sat Aug 20, 2022 6:13 am
But been suffering from post Covid lungs and throat so i can't use my CPAP for a bit. Have an inhaler that should help. Fingers crossed I can fire up the Resmed soon!
Why can't you use your CPAP? Uncomfortable or have you been advised against it?

CPAP has been instrumental in helping those with COVID and post-COVID recover quicker.

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Captain howdy
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Re: Variable Breathing - Philips v Resmed question

Post by Captain howdy » Sat Aug 20, 2022 5:10 pm

Dog Slobber wrote:
Sat Aug 20, 2022 6:22 am

Why can't you use your CPAP? Uncomfortable or have you been advised against it?

CPAP has been instrumental in helping those with COVID and post-COVID recover quicker.
Not advised. I've just been have sinus issues, also the uvula and throat areas. So using nasal pillows, the air hits those areas and it makes me cough and sneeze like crazy. But I actually used it last night and managed to sleep a bit. Woke a few times. But it's a start
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Re: Variable Breathing - Philips v Resmed question

Post by zonker » Sat Aug 20, 2022 5:54 pm

Captain howdy wrote:
Sat Aug 20, 2022 5:10 pm
But I actually used it last night and managed to sleep a bit. Woke a few times. But it's a start
good on you! baby steps and before you know it, you'll be able to sleep with it full time.
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Captain howdy
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Re: Variable Breathing - Philips v Resmed question

Post by Captain howdy » Sat Aug 20, 2022 7:24 pm

Well. I thought i woke a bunch more than i did. But i was having some crazy dreams. But from first glance at OSCAR, the readout looks pretty good compared to my dreamstation.

https://imgur.com/a/H6UVuxe
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Re: Variable Breathing - Philips v Resmed question

Post by zonker » Sat Aug 20, 2022 8:41 pm

Captain howdy wrote:
Sat Aug 20, 2022 7:24 pm
Well. I thought i woke a bunch more than i did. But i was having some crazy dreams. But from first glance at OSCAR, the readout looks pretty good compared to my dreamstation.

https://imgur.com/a/H6UVuxe
how did you feel that morning? sometimes, how you feel can be a better indicator than what your ahi is.
"the world is full of good people. if you can't find one, be one."-sleepgeek(avatar)

"I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
The sinners are much more fun
You know that only the good die young"-billy joel