Obesity and Apnea

To start with, "Tirzepatide, sold under the brand name Mounjaro, is a medication used for the treatment of type 2 diabetes." For those of use who don't have the condition, there's no one reputable who is going to prescribe it, since it was only FDA approved a few months ago. It's an injected medication, not a pill, which is also going to put people off, and for myself, the side effects are a nope, since I already have digestive issues as is, and they have been exacerbated by some pretty innocuous things already. "Common side effects may include nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, constipation, upper abdominal discomfort, and abdominal pain."

I don't think it's a "miracle" drug, any more than thousands of others out there, and like most weight loss medications, it's to be used along with dietary work and exercise. I've noticed some of the other weight loss medications that get hyped up a lot in ad spots on tv have small-print disclaimers indicating the people they're showing aren't typical, and that typical results are, say, a loss of 10 lbs over the course of a few months, with appropriate diet and exercise. Doing the math on those results, the medications seem to do very little, while the personal habit changes carry the real load... yet the miracle drugs take the credit. With diet and exercise alone, a person without additional issues (such as metabolic disorders) can expect to lose, safely, around 2 lbs per week. More than that is often considered an unsafe rate of loss, which often leads to weight gain (rebound) down the road. At the 2lbs per week rate, it would normally take under 3 months to lose those 10 lbs, without any new medications.

To be honest, I had hoped that part of my weight gain was in part due to metabolism issues related to the OSA and that the treatment will make it easier to lose weight.

I'm hoping the same for myself! I was working a part-time physical labour job a few years ago, and lost no weight, nor any inches around the belly... which lead me to conclude something is utterly mucked up in my metabolism.

my switch from processed to healthier foods can only help

Oh, that'll help for sure with overall health, even if it doesn't seem to have an immediate impact on weight. I need to be more healthy about eating, but I have issues of the ADHD kind. I completely forget to eat, and then suddenly realize I'm ravenous and that my hands are shaking, which means food prep isn't easy... so I end up grabbing whatever is at hand. (I also absolutely hate grocery shopping, which isn't helpful for making sure healthy stuff shows up in the house. I don't live by myself, and no one else in the household is overly concerned about what they're eating.)

I also know folks who eat VERY healthy and who are very active and just cannot seem to lose the weight. They have excellent numbers otherwise. It is time to get past the fat shaming era of human kind.

Yes, this! Fat shaming doesn't help anyone. Those of us who are fat are well aware of that fact, and don't need it pointed out constantly. Additionally, people who are overly thin can also have health issues as a result, and there are many people out there with eating disorders caused in childhood by their parents/other relatives/peers being overly preoccupied with the weight of everyone around them.

If someone keeps 'offering' something inappropriate to the place where offered, and that costs money, I think it's spam.

And if they call it miraculous, that's also inappropriate.

thx1138 wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 07, 2022 7:40 am

Back to the first post, so far in this thread, there doesn’t seem to be much interest in losing weight, in the possibility that losing weight would improve apnea, or in the new miracle drugs I brought up. People amaze me.

Here is some of the relevant research, and good luck to you.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2032183
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2114590
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2107519

Absolutely zero interest. Go find someone else to spam.

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:47 am

lynninnj wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:34 am

I also know folks who eat VERY healthy and who are very active and just cannot seem to lose the weight. They have excellent numbers otherwise. It is time to get past the fat shaming era of human kind.

I totally agree. There are people who can't seem to lose weight no matter what they do and they honestly do try.
My hard line comments aren't meant for those people.
They are meant for people like my own sister.
Or myself even.

lynninnj wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:34 am

I would be curious if it has a stimulant nature and makes it difficult for someone with OSA.

This is the one main question that I would also have about this new medication and I simply haven't had the time or energy to really dig deep into how it works. Most diet pills are just legalized speed which is well known to cut the appetite and they work because there is not much appetite so people just don't eat as much (hopefully) and legalized speed in any form will mess with our sleep for sure and more messing with our sleep as an OSA patient is definitely NOT what we want to do.
The expense factor and the fact that most insurance won't cover it is going to throw a big monkey wrench in it anyway.

It is an option though for some people and that's the important thing....options. We have choices but ultimately we have to decide just how much effort we want to put into anything. Some people want immediate fixes to everything...some people are good with a slower process.
They have to decide which, if any, option they want to try.

From what I saw of the one study I looked at, some folks lost as much as 15%. That is especially significant for someone who has a very high BMI.

But I am not sure how quick that fix is. The study was a 68 week study. I cant tell if the placebo group got an injection of saline or some such. I look at placebo a bit like the body doing what it should do. If the placebo group only had the diet and exercise part and not the injection part, to me that suggests they might not be eager to try as hard? (I am sure I didn't word that right and don't mean to be disparaging.)

The results include those who dropped out of the study for some reason?
Sorry but I can't see what methodology was used when including them in results, esp since placebo dropouts were higher as a percentage than treatment dropouts.

Anyway, looks promising for some folks who want to try it.

lynninnj wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 07, 2022 10:47 am

.

Anyway, looks promising for some folks who want to try it.

I look at all this stuff as "options" to be discussed with one's doctor or medical care team so that any pros and cons can be suitably addressed. That means that I don't judge anyone with their choices to try any option or not to try any option.
That's between the patient and the doctor. It's not something that I would want to personally try at all.
Not my cup of tea thing. But I will be the last person to tell someone else what to do or not to do.
You get the "options list" and then decide what you want to do based on whatever your thoughts are.

The lifestyle changes that are going to be required with any sort of "diet" or "medication aided diet" or even "surgical options" are going to be a big factor in success or failure of anything. For some people those lifestyle changes are going to be deal breakers for sure.
Example...my own niece weighs in at the excess of 350 lbs...I don't know exactly and I know she did try some sort of diet pill which I assume was legalized speed in some form....and she still sits down and eats a large size supreme pizza in one sitting all by herself. Need I say more? And she "can't exercise or walk" because she's got a mile's long list why she can't do anything.

thx1138 wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 07, 2022 7:40 am

Back to the first post, so far in this thread, there doesn’t seem to be much interest in losing weight, in the possibility that losing weight would improve apnea, or in the new miracle drugs I brought up. People amaze me.

Here is some of the relevant research, and good luck to you.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2032183
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2114590
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2107519

There are an abundance of threads in these forum pages from people who thought that losing weight would make their apnea disappear or improve it.....only to find that after losing weight they actually needed MORE pressure and obviously still had OSA.

SOME people who have their heads stuck "somewhere" amaze me, too.......

I'm actually 70 pounds lighter than when I started therapy over 17 years ago but there's no way in Hell I'm going to stop my therapy! I depend on it too much to sleep well.

Den

.

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 07, 2022 11:23 am

The lifestyle changes that are going to be required with any sort of "diet"

Example...my own niece weighs in at the excess of 350 lbs...I don't know exactly and I know she did try some sort of diet pill which I assume was legalized speed in some form....and she still sits down and eats a large size supreme pizza in one sitting all by herself. Need I say more?

My brother would think he was on a "diet" when he would eat a giant plate of food with a "diet" Coke.

JPB

jimbud wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 07, 2022 3:23 pm

My brother would think he was on a "diet" when he would eat a giant plate of food with a "diet" Coke.

I thoroughly understand and the sad fact is he probably really truly believes it.
There's a part of me that empathizes with these folks but there's another part of me that just wants to slap the crap out of them.
I do know first hand what it is like to carry around more pounds than I need and I also know first hand how difficult it is to lose those pounds.

I only weighed in at 119 pounds the day I delivered my daughter. I was a skinny assed little thing. 9 months pregnant and weighing it at under 120.
It wasn't until Mother Nature paid me the dreaded menopause visit that I really started having trouble with the weight.
God I wish I could see 120 again. I lost down to 145 but then Covid hit and the back got worse and things just went to hell. Didn't gain it all back but I gained enough of it back that I was unhappy about it.

I can't do legalized speed because it's not good on you if you have blood pressure problems. Not to mention what it does to sleep quality and we all know I have enough problems in that area already. Doesn't appeal to me anyway.
What I have chosen to do is just reduce the elbow bending exercise...smaller portions mainly and with the SCS surgery I can actually increase my activity level a little bit. I eat whatever I want but just smaller amounts and if I am full I quit even though there might be stuff on my plate left over. My husband has a hard time with my leaving food on my plate.
We both grew up in an age where we cleaned our plates "because of the starving children in Chine"...you remember that??
So hubby says "you didn't like what I fixed" and every time I have to say "remember I am trying to lose the extra pounds...what you fixed was great but I am full so I decided to just quit eating"....I get to do that with every meal he might fix. He can't seem to remember it from one day to the next.
In his mind if you enjoy someone's cooking you clean your plate.

Overeating is a lot more mental than people think. Most of us here were probably conditioned to over eat.

At any rate the original topic in this thread...doesn't interest me personally. Not something I would want to do for various reasons but I do understand that for some people it might be an option they want to try and if that is the case then they need to be having a chat with their doctor about the pros and cons and realistic expectations.
Not my place in life to tell anyone what to do about anything....all I can do is offer options and then the person has to make their own life choices. Your brother...my niece...they know the options and they choose to over eat. It's their choice. What I won't do is allow my niece to sit in one of my rather fragile chairs when she comes over here.
I do set my foot down in that regard.

My brother would think he was on a "diet" when he would eat a giant plate of food with a "diet" Coke.

When I was a kid, one of my aunts was prone to doing this. My mom and her other sister would laugh about it, but not to her face.

I eat whatever I want but just smaller amounts and if I am full I quit even though there might be stuff on my plate left over. My husband has a hard time with my leaving food on my plate.
We both grew up in an age where we cleaned our plates "because of the starving children in Chine"...you remember that??

For me, it was "starving children in Africa" and/or being forced to eat the cold leftovers before I could eat anything else. The conditioning to eat everything on your plate, even if you're absolutely stuffed is really hard to overcome. I still have trouble with it at times ,though not always, thankfully.

Pugsy you said menopause.

Another curse I am facing.

I hope my metabolism finds a happy place soon.

latskogkatt wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 07, 2022 7:40 pm

I eat whatever I want but just smaller amounts and if I am full I quit even though there might be stuff on my plate left over. My husband has a hard time with my leaving food on my plate.
We both grew up in an age where we cleaned our plates "because of the starving children in Chine"...you remember that??

For me, it was "starving children in Africa" and/or being forced to eat the cold leftovers before I could eat anything else. The conditioning to eat everything on your plate, even if you're absolutely stuffed is really hard to overcome. I still have trouble with it at times ,though not always, thankfully.

Yep, starving children in africa is what I was told too. Plus my dad was a young teen boy when the great depression hit, my mom even younger. Not only was I not allowed to leave food but I heard over and over of how what real hunger was like and you never leave anything, even the fat on meat or asparagus stems were to be eaten because someday you might not be so lucky. This same man as a grandpa would sneak the 3 bites I required of things my kids didn't like off their plates when I wasn't looking and eat it for them. I still struggle with walking away when I'm full and cringe at the wastefulness of tossing leftovers.

Yep, starving children in africa is what I was told too. Plus my dad was a young teen boy when the great depression hit, my mom even younger.

For me, it was my grandparents who lived through the Great Depression as children, but it's clear both sets instilled that "don't waste" value into my parents.

Currently, I live with other relatives, and we don't have set mealtimes or group meals. I've started training myself to stop when I get full, and seek out one of my cousins to offer up my leftovers to, so I won't have to feel guilty for wasting food.

latskogkatt wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 07, 2022 9:16 am

To start with, "Tirzepatide, sold under the brand name Mounjaro, is a medication used for the treatment of type 2 diabetes." ...
"Common side effects may include nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, constipation, upper abdominal discomfort, and abdominal pain."

Hmm... Maybe this is how the "weight loss" happens...

Seriously though, much of the junk marketed as "detox" "work" by causing diarrhea

Julie wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 07, 2022 9:27 am

If someone keeps 'offering' something inappropriate to the place where offered, and that costs money, I think it's spam.

And if they call it miraculous, that's also inappropriate.

I kinda agree with julie to some extent. It felt a lot like spam and also felt judgy like “I can’t believe nobody here cares about losing weight”.

I’m not entirely sure that the studies that were posted were even for the same drug.

lynninnj wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:19 am

was the poster a cpap user?

Well....he/she says he/she is. CPAP equipment profile is filled in with equipment.
But then we don't require proof here. We tend to take people at their word until proven differently.
memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=90066
Been a forum member 3 plus years now.

To everyone....

He/she found something interesting and just wanted to share it.
Then he/she found it odd that people didn't jump right on the bandwagon since losing weight MIGHT help with OSA or pressure needs. I didn't find it odd....people quickly jumped into various side topics about weight and failed to just see the post for what it was which was simply information about a potentially new weight lost treatment. I didn't find it odd that things got rather nasty because people seem to not like new ideas about anything here. The OP here is a rather new member and didn't understand the mindset of most of the members here. Hadn't been here long enough to understand the dynamics that goes on here.

If I came here and posted a similar new way to maybe help people lose weight or use cpap or whatever help to aid in anyone doing anything that might benefit someone somewhere....does that make me a spammer?? Even if what I posted was most likely 99.9% of the people here would think I was off my rocker for posting???
Does that make me a spammer?

The polite response to the OP...when not your cup of tea would be "thank you for the information but not for me for various reasons"....OR JUST DON'T SAY ANYTHING which was what my first thought was when I read it so I didn't say anything.

I am really disappointed in the nasty responses here by people to what was simply an informational post about a potentially new way of helping people lose weight. Yeah....it's out there on a long skinny limb for sure but that doesn't mean much.
A lot of stuff people post here belongs out on a long skinny limb.
To insinuate trolling or spamming....just plain rude.

I thought you guys/gals were better than that.