Leak Rate question
- Perrybucsdad
- Posts: 834
- Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:09 am
- Location: Northeast Ohio
Leak Rate question
I know there is another question out there recently about this, but with a different OP and different unit. Not wanting to Hijack their thread, I started a new one.
I have been trying to find ways to increase my quality sleep. I was getting up quite a bit, and I am working on that. One of the other things that My Air has been reporting to me is that my leak rate has been a bit high. I know, the general consensus has been if your leak is high, but your AHI is low, that is good. Well, my 95% leak rate is 46.13 L/min over the past 30 days (43.29 past 90 days and 46.13 past year). My AHI has been 1.30 events an hour over the past 30 days (1.42 events an hour over the past 90 and .97 over the past year). I'm thinking AHI > 1 is cause for concern, so I wanted to ask what others think.
I use a ResMed AirSense 10 Respond, and the Resmed AirFit 10 nasal pillows. I hate that new strap they have, but I have gotten it. I replace the pillows about every 2 - 3 months (I know, it should be more frequently).
Anyhow, let me know your thoughts or if you need to see some charts from something.
Blessings!
I have been trying to find ways to increase my quality sleep. I was getting up quite a bit, and I am working on that. One of the other things that My Air has been reporting to me is that my leak rate has been a bit high. I know, the general consensus has been if your leak is high, but your AHI is low, that is good. Well, my 95% leak rate is 46.13 L/min over the past 30 days (43.29 past 90 days and 46.13 past year). My AHI has been 1.30 events an hour over the past 30 days (1.42 events an hour over the past 90 and .97 over the past year). I'm thinking AHI > 1 is cause for concern, so I wanted to ask what others think.
I use a ResMed AirSense 10 Respond, and the Resmed AirFit 10 nasal pillows. I hate that new strap they have, but I have gotten it. I replace the pillows about every 2 - 3 months (I know, it should be more frequently).
Anyhow, let me know your thoughts or if you need to see some charts from something.
Blessings!
_________________
Machine: ResMed AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier |
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Additional Comments: ResScan v5.9; Sleepyhead v1.0.0-beta |
Re: Leak Rate question
That's too hig
I'd say anything below 1.5, maybe 2 is fine.I'm thinking AHI > 1 is cause for concern,
Never heard of that one. which one does it correspond to?ResMed AirSense 10 Respond,
No, they should be replaced when necessary, not on any artificial schedule. I've gotten more than a year on them before.I replace the pillows about every 2 - 3 months (I know, it should be more frequently).
Without Oscar charts, all we can do is guess.Anyhow, let me know your thoughts or if you need to see some charts from something.
Get OSCAR
Accounts to put on the foe list: dataq1, clownbell, gearchange, lynninnj, mper!?, DreamDiver, Geer1, almostadoctor, sleepgeek, ajack, stom, mogy, D.H., They often post misleading, timewasting stuff.
Accounts to put on the foe list: dataq1, clownbell, gearchange, lynninnj, mper!?, DreamDiver, Geer1, almostadoctor, sleepgeek, ajack, stom, mogy, D.H., They often post misleading, timewasting stuff.
Re: Leak Rate question
The 95% leak number just means you were AT OR BELOW that number for 95% of the night.
It is NOT the overall average or where you spend 95% of the night at that leak number. The "or below" part of the definition is critical.
Do the leaks wake you up?
To really evaluate leaks and potential impact on therapy you have to look at the leak graphs themselves.
You want to see how deep into large leak territory you go and how long you stayed there (or above 30 L/min which is where the machine can start experiencing problems with sensing, responding and recording of any apnea events that might happen).
You have to use OSCAR.
It is NOT the overall average or where you spend 95% of the night at that leak number. The "or below" part of the definition is critical.
Do the leaks wake you up?
To really evaluate leaks and potential impact on therapy you have to look at the leak graphs themselves.
You want to see how deep into large leak territory you go and how long you stayed there (or above 30 L/min which is where the machine can start experiencing problems with sensing, responding and recording of any apnea events that might happen).
You have to use OSCAR.
_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier |
Additional Comments: Mask Bleep Eclipse https://bleepsleep.com/the-eclipse/ |
I may have to RISE but I refuse to SHINE.
If you want to try the Eclipse mask and want a special promo code to get a little off the price...send me a private message.
If you want to try the Eclipse mask and want a special promo code to get a little off the price...send me a private message.
- Perrybucsdad
- Posts: 834
- Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:09 am
- Location: Northeast Ohio
Re: Leak Rate question
I don't believe that the leaks are waking me up at this time. I do know there was a phase when I was waking up with my mouth open for some reason, but that was quite some time ago.
Here are the AHI, LL, and leak rate charts for the past 92 days.
Here are the AHI, LL, and leak rate charts for the past 92 days.
_________________
Machine: ResMed AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier |
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Additional Comments: ResScan v5.9; Sleepyhead v1.0.0-beta |
- Perrybucsdad
- Posts: 834
- Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:09 am
- Location: Northeast Ohio
Re: Leak Rate question
Here is just last night and more detail.
_________________
Machine: ResMed AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier |
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Additional Comments: ResScan v5.9; Sleepyhead v1.0.0-beta |
Re: Leak Rate question
Have you checked the hose(s) for a hole?
Your baseline leak is pretty high. You should hit 0.0 at least at some point but you never really do.
See my baseline here? Come to find out I had a teeny tiny hole in my heated hose. I never could feel it though. I had to do the water in those test to find it.
And here it is after I got a new hose.
Your baseline leak is pretty high. You should hit 0.0 at least at some point but you never really do.
See my baseline here? Come to find out I had a teeny tiny hole in my heated hose. I never could feel it though. I had to do the water in those test to find it.
And here it is after I got a new hose.
_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier |
Additional Comments: Mask Bleep Eclipse https://bleepsleep.com/the-eclipse/ |
I may have to RISE but I refuse to SHINE.
If you want to try the Eclipse mask and want a special promo code to get a little off the price...send me a private message.
If you want to try the Eclipse mask and want a special promo code to get a little off the price...send me a private message.
- Dog Slobber
- Posts: 3960
- Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:05 pm
- Location: Ontario, Canada
Re: Leak Rate question
Check for a hole. Check humidifier, and all hoses are properly seated and tight.
I've had some masks that never hit zero, but when your leak rate is 20 lpm, when you first put your mask on, and you don't feel anything, that leak is coming from somewhere.
Also make sure your mask settings actually matches your mask type. Your profile says pillows.
I've had some masks that never hit zero, but when your leak rate is 20 lpm, when you first put your mask on, and you don't feel anything, that leak is coming from somewhere.
Also make sure your mask settings actually matches your mask type. Your profile says pillows.
_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier |
Mask: AirFit™ P30i Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear Starter Pack |
Additional Comments: Min EPAP: 8.2, Max IPAP: 25, PS:4 |
- Perrybucsdad
- Posts: 834
- Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:09 am
- Location: Northeast Ohio
Re: Leak Rate question
I'm wondering if that 20lpm is the expected leak rate from the pillow. On the AirFit, there is supposed to be some leak (I've been trying to find on the ResMed site what the expected leak rate is supposed to be but I can't find it.Dog Slobber wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:21 pmbut when your leak rate is 20 lpm, when you first put your mask on, and you don't feel anything, that leak is coming from somewhere.
I did check for leaks in the hose... none I could detect. The lightweight hose though that is part of the head gear assembly on the AirFit P10 is really sloppy where it connects to the hard plastic that slides into the heated hoseline for the machine. I didn't detect any air, but then again, I didn't hold it under water either to see if I could see air bubbles.
Last night's leak rate was worse. Woke up with the red face on the unit. Strange as I felt like last night I had a good night sleep. When I look at the data though, I had Large leaks a good part of the night. % in LL was almost 32%. I really think the new strap design on the AirFit P10 might be the issue... but who knows. I do have a bunch of replacement straps for the headgear, so maybe I should swap one out. I guess I could also just tighten it too, but then my nose hurts in the morning. Maybe I just need to find or try a different type if nasal pillow with different headgear. I saw the ones that you have Pugsy, but I don't think I could deal with it being stuck with adhesive to my nose, especially if I am getting up a few times a night.
Edit:
I wonder if I should try the AirFit P30i? I do roll over and flip around a lot, and I wonder if my turning and all that may be some of the issue. I have a bunch of spare pillows for the P10 though and I don't think they are interchangeable with the P30i. I guess I could always sell them too.
Are the pillows best for people who go from their stomach to side and all over during the night? I know the full face never worked for me as I have facial hair and the leak rate was really bad when I had that many years ago. Just wondering what has less issues with people who toss and turn, nasal pillows, or a nasal cradle. I don't think the cradle is as forgiving, but I may be wrong.
_________________
Machine: ResMed AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier |
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Additional Comments: ResScan v5.9; Sleepyhead v1.0.0-beta |
Re: Leak Rate question
Watch for the release of the Eclipse...hopefully in a couple of months. It's the new and improved Bleep model.
But for now....if getting up during the night is an issue.....You unhook the Bleep mask at the short hose to long hose connection and go do what you need to do with the elephant trunk hanging from your nose.
With the Eclipse there are little magnets holding the mask frame to the ports and you can just slide the magnets to break the connection and go do your whatever that you want to do in the middle of the night without the elephant trunk and then reattach with the magnets when you go to bed.
Now for the mask's expected vent rate that you are talking about. Yes, all masks have those vent rates or intentional leaks as they can be called. You can usually find the numbers for that vent rate at whatever pressure in the mask paperwork that should have come with your mask.
Page 7 of this online guide paperwork
https://document.resmed.com/documents/p ... er_eng.pdf
BUT....your machine should automatically deduct this vent rate from the leak numbers because your machine ONLY reports the excess leak.
Now if you were using a Respironics machine it does report the total leak which is the mask's expected vent rate PLUS any excess leaks.
ResMed machines deduct any expected vent rate before reporting leak numbers and only report excess leaks so what you are seeing is excess leak ABOVE the vent rate and it should at or near 0.0 for a baseline leak. When we first start the machine and are awake and we KNOW that there is no leak that we can feel or hear then that baseline leak should be at or near 0.0.
Yours isn't which makes us wonder where that excess leak is coming from.
Everyone should be able to start the night at or very close to 0.0 leak. That's part of why we have a mask type selection on the machine because it affects the calculations that the machine does for removing the vent rate prior to reporting leak numbers. Not the entire thing but part of it.
When you start the night with an already high baseline leak number then that just increases the chances of the machine report lots of leaks above 24 L/min when in reality those leaks aren't that high.
When your starting point is 20 L/min base line it doesn't take long to hit 24 L/min and get a large leak flag and an Mr Frowny for leak management.
Your mask is leaking somewhere somehow...or the hose is leaking somehow somewhere. Your baseline leak numbers should be at or close to 0.0 at least at the beginning of the night.
But for now....if getting up during the night is an issue.....You unhook the Bleep mask at the short hose to long hose connection and go do what you need to do with the elephant trunk hanging from your nose.
With the Eclipse there are little magnets holding the mask frame to the ports and you can just slide the magnets to break the connection and go do your whatever that you want to do in the middle of the night without the elephant trunk and then reattach with the magnets when you go to bed.
Now for the mask's expected vent rate that you are talking about. Yes, all masks have those vent rates or intentional leaks as they can be called. You can usually find the numbers for that vent rate at whatever pressure in the mask paperwork that should have come with your mask.
Page 7 of this online guide paperwork
https://document.resmed.com/documents/p ... er_eng.pdf
BUT....your machine should automatically deduct this vent rate from the leak numbers because your machine ONLY reports the excess leak.
Now if you were using a Respironics machine it does report the total leak which is the mask's expected vent rate PLUS any excess leaks.
ResMed machines deduct any expected vent rate before reporting leak numbers and only report excess leaks so what you are seeing is excess leak ABOVE the vent rate and it should at or near 0.0 for a baseline leak. When we first start the machine and are awake and we KNOW that there is no leak that we can feel or hear then that baseline leak should be at or near 0.0.
Yours isn't which makes us wonder where that excess leak is coming from.
Everyone should be able to start the night at or very close to 0.0 leak. That's part of why we have a mask type selection on the machine because it affects the calculations that the machine does for removing the vent rate prior to reporting leak numbers. Not the entire thing but part of it.
When you start the night with an already high baseline leak number then that just increases the chances of the machine report lots of leaks above 24 L/min when in reality those leaks aren't that high.
When your starting point is 20 L/min base line it doesn't take long to hit 24 L/min and get a large leak flag and an Mr Frowny for leak management.
Your mask is leaking somewhere somehow...or the hose is leaking somehow somewhere. Your baseline leak numbers should be at or close to 0.0 at least at the beginning of the night.
_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier |
Additional Comments: Mask Bleep Eclipse https://bleepsleep.com/the-eclipse/ |
I may have to RISE but I refuse to SHINE.
If you want to try the Eclipse mask and want a special promo code to get a little off the price...send me a private message.
If you want to try the Eclipse mask and want a special promo code to get a little off the price...send me a private message.
- Perrybucsdad
- Posts: 834
- Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:09 am
- Location: Northeast Ohio
Re: Leak Rate question
Okay, so I have some homework to do then. Only other place I can think of is the water tank (the seal in the tank itself and then the seal when you push the tank into the machine).
_________________
Machine: ResMed AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier |
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Additional Comments: ResScan v5.9; Sleepyhead v1.0.0-beta |
Re: Leak Rate question
Usually if the water chamber isn't inserted completely the leak is loud and annoying and the cpap machine will complain immediately about it....but worth checking out for sure.
You might take the time to do some awake tests to see if you can figure out where the leak is at.
Like maybe 15 minutes or so using the mask and machine and evaluate things.
You might take the time to do some awake tests to see if you can figure out where the leak is at.
Like maybe 15 minutes or so using the mask and machine and evaluate things.
_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier |
Additional Comments: Mask Bleep Eclipse https://bleepsleep.com/the-eclipse/ |
I may have to RISE but I refuse to SHINE.
If you want to try the Eclipse mask and want a special promo code to get a little off the price...send me a private message.
If you want to try the Eclipse mask and want a special promo code to get a little off the price...send me a private message.
Re: Leak Rate question
Systematic awake experiments...first start with a brand new long hose...then look at mask hose...make sure water chamber is inserted completely....look inside where the chamber goes to see if anything is loose, etc.
OSCAR has a minimum session duration criteria before it will import a short session. I don't know what that criteria is but someone tried a 3 minute experiment and it didn't show up in OSCAR.
OSCAR has a minimum session duration criteria before it will import a short session. I don't know what that criteria is but someone tried a 3 minute experiment and it didn't show up in OSCAR.
_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier |
Additional Comments: Mask Bleep Eclipse https://bleepsleep.com/the-eclipse/ |
I may have to RISE but I refuse to SHINE.
If you want to try the Eclipse mask and want a special promo code to get a little off the price...send me a private message.
If you want to try the Eclipse mask and want a special promo code to get a little off the price...send me a private message.
Re: Leak Rate question
Curious- I don’t want to hijack but quick on topic question…. I have an N30 cushion. Is that considered a “pillow” in the settings or do I need to change it?Dog Slobber wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:21 pmCheck for a hole. Check humidifier, and all hoses are properly seated and tight.
I've had some masks that never hit zero, but when your leak rate is 20 lpm, when you first put your mask on, and you don't feel anything, that leak is coming from somewhere.
Also make sure your mask settings actually matches your mask type. Your profile says pillows.
_________________
Machine: AirSense 11 Autoset |
Mask: ResMed AirFit N30 Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Additional Comments: Newbie who loves her machine! |
Beware the schoolyard bullies, mean girls, and fragile male egos. Move along if you can’t be kind.
Re: Leak Rate question
When pugsy gave me the video to explain how to put the Bleep on, The dude did something very interesting. He covered up the bottom of the hose and tried to breathe out. His nostrils got all puffed out.Pugsy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 6:47 amUsually if the water chamber isn't inserted completely the leak is loud and annoying and the cpap machine will complain immediately about it....but worth checking out for sure.
You might take the time to do some awake tests to see if you can figure out where the leak is at.
Like maybe 15 minutes or so using the mask and machine and evaluate things.
I have a similar mask to what the original poster has with the N 30 and when I put it on I do the same thing. I cover the bottom of the hose and see if my nose puffs out to know if I have a leak.
I would imagine you can do use the same techniques attached to the longer hose or even the shorter hose with the pillows?
Hope that helps.
_________________
Machine: AirSense 11 Autoset |
Mask: ResMed AirFit N30 Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Additional Comments: Newbie who loves her machine! |
Beware the schoolyard bullies, mean girls, and fragile male egos. Move along if you can’t be kind.
Re: Leak Rate question
With my p10s I felt like the air was leaking where are the silicone pillows attached to the frame up above the hose.Perrybucsdad wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 6:35 amOkay, so I have some homework to do then. Only other place I can think of is the water tank (the seal in the tank itself and then the seal when you push the tank into the machine).
I am not sure if I quoted you in one of my other posts but please look for it it might help you to try blowing out your nose while covering up the bottom of your hose just to see if you can find the holes that way.
Hope that helps
_________________
Machine: AirSense 11 Autoset |
Mask: ResMed AirFit N30 Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Additional Comments: Newbie who loves her machine! |
Beware the schoolyard bullies, mean girls, and fragile male egos. Move along if you can’t be kind.