Airsense 10 suddenly shut down

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tisket
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Re: Airsense 10 suddenly shut down

Post by tisket » Sun Jul 24, 2022 10:40 am

I recall it blowing air suddenly when I plugged it back in for the fifth time. It's quite possible there were a few seconds where it warmed back up and then started over at 8 pressure. I was sleep deprived, half asleep and rather alarmed at the time so my memories are not crystal clear. I thought it was dead and was surprised when the fifth attempt made it come back to life.

I used it last night with no issues, did not fully mouth tape as I don't like the idea of having no air for several minutes as appeared to happen here several times. Naturally my large leak was increased, still not sure how I can sleep through air blowing out my mouth but apparently I can. Just used a piece of blue sensitive skin tape across the middle of my mouth instead of the usual white paper tape across the whole thing. (REALLY wish they made that blue tape in 2" width.) Didn't see any breaks though in the graphs this time in OSCAR.
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SleepGeek
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Re: Airsense 10 suddenly shut down

Post by SleepGeek » Sun Jul 24, 2022 9:22 pm

tyrinryan wrote:
Sat Jul 23, 2022 11:48 pm
I thought this action was strange too; but sleepgeek said that "most cpap machines will come back on" when power is restored without pressing the "on" button.
I wouldn't want a cpap that didn't behave this way. IF you are sleeping you are not likely to push any buttons, so its best if there is a momentary blip in the power that it just continue where it left off.

I have seen this on both the Respironics and the Resmed brands. I have no idea if the new chinese models behave this way but it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't.

If the power just stays off then the user is likely to wake up, I know I do. Which is why I started staying plugged into a battery - problem solved.
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tisket
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Re: Airsense 10 suddenly shut down

Post by tisket » Sun Jul 24, 2022 9:41 pm

Since this seems a testable thing, I just tested it. Turned my machine on, let it blow for a minute, then unplugged it and counted to 30, then plugged it back in. It resumed blowing. I do not use Smart Start because it seems like it messes up the data write out to the data card sometimes.

Since I did not lose power (power alarm would have gone off, and alarm clock would be messed up) a battery/UPS would not have prevented what happened to me, which was the machine shutting down and staying shut down despite still being plugged into a live power strip.
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Pugsy
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Re: Airsense 10 suddenly shut down

Post by Pugsy » Sun Jul 24, 2022 9:45 pm

So....you unplugged the machine while it was blowing.
Then you plugged the machine back in and it started blowing immediately???? Is that correct?
Did you push any buttons anywhere on the machine after you plug it back in and it powered up?
Or no buttons pushed ...just plugged in and it started blowing without you touching the machine?
Could you see what pressure it was blowing at?
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tisket
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Re: Airsense 10 suddenly shut down

Post by tisket » Sun Jul 24, 2022 9:54 pm

Pugsy wrote:
Sun Jul 24, 2022 9:45 pm
So....you unplugged the machine while it was blowing.
Then you plugged the machine back in and it started blowing immediately???? Is that correct?
Yes, after I waited 30 seconds to make sure it was "dead" before plugging it back in.
Did you push any buttons anywhere on the machine after you plug it back in and it powered up?
No.
Or no buttons pushed ...just plugged in and it started blowing without you touching the machine?
Correct.
Could you see what pressure it was blowing at?
Yes, the ResMed logo came up, then it went right back to where it was before, which was the auto ramp, so it climbed to 7.8 and remained there. Looked like it started at nothing and climbed rapidly to 7.8. This was where it was at when I unplugged it. I am not sure what would happen if it was past the ramp time when I go to unplug it. Probably go to 8, my minimum pressure, I would guess. That's what the OSCAR graphs show on the 1st page of this thread anyway.
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Re: Airsense 10 suddenly shut down

Post by Pugsy » Sun Jul 24, 2022 10:20 pm

So i just now did an experiment with my AirCurve 10 VAuto.
Turned SmartStart off.
Pushed the ON button and it started blowing air through the hose. I was not attached. No mask on the hose.
Let it blow about 30 seconds or so then I pulled the power cord plug from the back of the machine.
It turned off.
So then I plugged it back in after maybe 30 seconds of it being off and unplugged. I am still unattached and SmartStart is still off.
The machine did absolutely nothing once I plugged it in and it quickly did its internal cycle thing.
I watched it for about a minute...it never came back on blowing the air at all.
The above is what I would expect to have happen.

It's not normal for a machine to immediately start blowing air without pushing the ON button when the power has been removed and then replaced.
The fact your machine turns itself off for no known reason and then starts blowing when it shouldn't be expected to be blowing air is a worry. If it starts blowing air and you haven't touched the ON button to start it.....something weird I would be thinking. Something weird in the innards of the machine relating to power somehow.

My machine still hasn't started blowing yet after I come here and compose this reply.
They just shouldn't come on unless someone pushes the ON power button when SmartStart is disabled.

My thoughts on it anyway.
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ozij
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Re: Airsense 10 suddenly shut down

Post by ozij » Sun Jul 24, 2022 10:29 pm

Pugsy wrote:
Sun Jul 24, 2022 10:20 pm
It's not normal for a machine to immediately start blowing air without pushing the ON button when the power has been removed and then replaced.
The fact your machine turns itself off for no known reason and then starts blowing when it shouldn't be expected to be blowing air is a worry. If it starts blowing air and you haven't touched the ON button to start it.....something weird I would be thinking. Something weird in the innards of the machine relating to power somehow.
Agree.
The on / off button seems to have a mind of its own.
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Re: Airsense 10 suddenly shut down

Post by chunkyfrog » Sun Jul 24, 2022 11:51 pm

Short term amnesia?

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tisket
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Re: Airsense 10 suddenly shut down

Post by tisket » Mon Jul 25, 2022 7:31 am

Thanks Pugsy. Interesting that you and SleepGeek seem to live in two different worlds (and my machine is in his).

Tried to contact Resmed, sounds like the warranty has to go through the one who sold me the machine (CPAP.com) and they said I have to go through troubleshooting steps with them before they can set up warranty work, so guess that will have to wait for tonight.

By the way I see they are calling the newer Airsense 10 "Card to Cloud" which oddly means they disabled the modem so it doesn't work with MyAir. Strange. Wonder what the "cloud" is supposed to mean.
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Re: Airsense 10 suddenly shut down

Post by Pugsy » Mon Jul 25, 2022 8:00 am

tisket wrote:
Mon Jul 25, 2022 7:31 am
Thanks Pugsy. Interesting that you and SleepGeek seem to live in two different worlds (and my machine is in his).
Shrugs about SleepGeek. My grandma used to say that if you can't say anything nice about someone then don't say anything at all. He is entitled to his opinion and I am entitled to mine and no where in the cpap forum rules does it say that both opinions have to be identical. I rarely agree with anything he says....so lets leave it at that and a public warning to SleepGeek...if you respond to this I will remove it and we can play whack a post all day but eventually I will win. You will NOT derail this thread by trying to start another pissing contest with me.
tisket wrote:
Mon Jul 25, 2022 7:31 am
Tried to contact Resmed, sounds like the warranty has to go through the one who sold me the machine (CPAP.com) and they said I have to go through troubleshooting steps with them before they can set up warranty work, so guess that will have to wait for tonight.
Yes...that's the way the warranty procedure works at cpap.com. Been through it myself several years ago with a machine doing weird crap within the software. Once you go through the steps and satisfy whatever they have you try (and yes mostly stupid stuff) they will honor the warranty.
Push the unreliability of the machine and your concern about power offs in the middle of the night and the potential effects on your health.
Push your concerns about reliability of data and response when there is such an obvious electrical or software problem within the machine. Push the fact that it makes you wonder what else might be either wrong with how the machine is working or might go wrong and do in the future. Push the fact that it does seem to be (at this point anyway) some sort of electrical or software issue. Machines don't or shouldn't up and turn themselves off for no reason and more pointedly start blowing air when plugged back in without the human pushing the ON button...that's simply a warning sign of potential upcoming problems.

You will have to jump through cpap.com hoops though but it shouldn't take long. In my own personal experience once I jumped the hoops and returned the machine they sent me a brand new unit. I didn't have to wait for the machine to go to ResMed and have them evaluate it and do whatever with it. I got the new machine once cpap.com got the defective machine.
tisket wrote:
Mon Jul 25, 2022 7:31 am
By the way I see they are calling the newer Airsense 10 "Card to Cloud" which oddly means they disabled the modem so it doesn't work with MyAir. Strange. Wonder what the "cloud" is supposed to mean.
My personal opinion about the naming of a machine with no ability to transmit to the cloud/web to reflect the cloud was just plain one of the stupidest things ResMed has ever done and they have done/named a lot of IMHO stupid names or done some really stupid things.

It's not a matter of disabling the modem so it can't transmit to MyAir website (or the professional version called AirView) it more likely a matter of not being able to get the electronic chips (or whatever they are called) to enable modem transmission in the first place. I think it is more likely tied to the shortage worldwide for the necessary chips/cards to do that modem transmitting function. So they just decided to manufacture a model of machine that simply couldn't ever phone home....which to me is actually a plus and not a minus but I can see where insurance is involved and lazy DMEs are involved that it isn't so convenient for them. All information that any doctor or DME needs to see is available simply by using a SD card and ResScan...but that means more work for the doctors and DMEs and they are spoiled (with MyAir and AirView) and don't want to do the work.

ResMed simply can't get enough of the electronic parts, due to the world wide shortage, to make all their machines be able to phone home so in an effort to sell more machines they decided to make machines that won't ever phone home and sell them as well. Money, money, money...profit...that's what it is all about. Market share.

Stupidest naming thing I have ever seen though. Idiots in the naming department. They should be fired. :lol: :lol:
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tisket
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Re: Airsense 10 suddenly shut down

Post by tisket » Mon Jul 25, 2022 8:12 am

By the way I should mention I had the mask on when I did my unplugging test. Don't know if that would affect the behavior.

Had a lot of large leak since I didn't fully tape last night. Time to break out the backup unit.
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Re: Airsense 10 suddenly shut down

Post by Pugsy » Mon Jul 25, 2022 8:24 am

tisket wrote:
Mon Jul 25, 2022 8:12 am
By the way I should mention I had the mask on when I did my unplugging test. Don't know if that would affect the behavior.
I did my experiment with mask not even attached to the hose and I wasn't involved at all.
Might be an experiment you could also try and report results to cpap.com. Totally removes the human from the equation.
You will have to have the long hose attached to the machine though. Without the long hose the machine will turn itself off when it gets turned on after a very short time and tell you that there is a massive leak. The machine won't blow air very long with no hose attached. I learned this a long time ago when I would want to air out a machine by letting it run for a prolonged period of time outside in the fresh air and got reminded of that fact last night when I first tried the experiment with hose not attached.

But the only way your wearing the mask would/could affect the results is IF you had SmartStart enbabled (turned on) and the machine sensed your breathing immediately and then started blowing.
You have said that SmartStart is disabled (turned off) so it shouldn't be a factor in your own experiments but you might confirm that SmartStart is indeed OFF.
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tisket
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Re: Airsense 10 suddenly shut down

Post by tisket » Mon Jul 25, 2022 8:41 am

Yeah SmartStart is off I did check that.

By the way does the Airsense 10 come with an SD card? If not I need to get one for my spare since I want the repair people to have my old SD card data showing the machine going off in the middle of the night.

If I do need to get one, what is the right capacity? I know with computers you sometimes don't want one too big because it can't use the FAT32 file system or something.
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Pugsy
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Re: Airsense 10 suddenly shut down

Post by Pugsy » Mon Jul 25, 2022 9:24 am

I don't believe that ResMed is shipping the AirSense 10 models (or 11s for that matter) with a SD card included anymore.
They used to but I don't see it listed anymore so I would assume not.

Any generic/cheap SD card will work. 8 GB is more than enough sized but it's getting hard to find even the 8 GB size anymore.
The 32 GB limit you were thinking about is for the AirSense 10 models (apparently the AirSense 11 models don't care)
and its 32 GB OR smaller is the recommendation. That's because the AirSense/AirCurve 10 models can't handle larger than 32 GB without wanting to re-partition the SD card.
If you get 32 GB or smaller just stick it in the AirSense 10 machine and the machine will format it to its liking. No extra work for you.
If you do get larger than 32 GB there is a bit of extra work for you but not horrible work.

Since the cost of SD cards is directly proportional to capacity...and since the machine in reality only probably needs at most 4 GB there is simply no reason to get the larger SD cards that are really large capacity and have a much higher price tag.
I am using a Sandisk 16 GB SD card in my machine right now but I had been using an 8 GB card. I had to get a new card because the old card ended up with a bent thingy (those multiple little metal things on the card) which I knew was causing a problem inserting the card and it was just a matter of time before I could insert the card at all.
I just go to WalMart and get the smallest they have available....no other place close and the price is about the same as on Amazon.
But you can order a new card since you aren't rushed for time and save a couple of bucks.

Originally back when the AirSense 10 machines were released (and the prior S9 models) ResMed included a 2 GB card...
In reality a 2 GB card is all that is needed but they are hard to find and very pricey when found. Might as well upgrade a bit and save money at the same time. It hurts nothing to have a SD card with a larger capacity because eventually the machine will start overwriting the old data anyway.....and they never tell us exactly when.
Used to be after 365 days but now I think it is much longer and I think that the machine will crap out before capacity is reached.
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Pugsy
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Re: Airsense 10 suddenly shut down

Post by Pugsy » Mon Jul 25, 2022 9:28 am

tisket wrote:
Mon Jul 25, 2022 8:41 am
I want the repair people to have my old SD card data showing the machine going off in the middle of the night.
I am not so sure that the repair people will even want or need the data off the card.
There's a history of the power on/off thing within the internal software and some codes involved.
They would need to use ResScan or OSCAR to see what the SD card contains and I doubt they even use any of that software.
They use a different software program to run checks on the machine.
I don't know exactly but acbio.com does ResMed warranty repair work and they might could enlighten you more as to what is done or needed. Give them a call.
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