Machine causing insomnia

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
User avatar
Pugsy
Posts: 62423
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 9:31 am
Location: Missouri, USA

Re: Machine causing insomnia

Post by Pugsy » Wed Jul 13, 2022 6:36 pm

There's more to settings than just a range.

There is

Ramp setting....is it on or off and for how long? Does it start at the factory default of 4 cm?
Minimum pressure (assuming auto mode since you mention a range) Sounds like yours is 5 cm
Maximum pressure...sounds like yours is 15 cm

EPR ...this is exhale relief....is it on or off or set to ramp only?
If it is on...what is the setting?

If you are using the ramp...then most likely you are starting out at 4 cm and EPR even if it was on can't help at all.
People often complain of having problems exhaling when EPR isn't available.

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: Mask Bleep Eclipse https://bleepsleep.com/the-eclipse/
I may have to RISE but I refuse to SHINE.

joepublic23
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2022 11:15 am

Re: Machine causing insomnia

Post by joepublic23 » Wed Jul 13, 2022 7:35 pm

It has a 20 minute ramp I believe. I think it starts at 4.

I don't think I have EPR. Do I need a BiPap machine for that?

My apnea is light, I forget what the number is. The Doctor wasn't convinced that I needed a CPAP, but apparently my snoring is terrible so I insisted on trying something. (As I previously stated I have long believed that I will not be able to physically fall asleep using a CPAP, I only pursued this after I learned about Inspire.)

I had thought that wearing a mask would prevent me from sleeping, but as soon as I breathed through it I found the exhaling to be a much bigger challenge since I have to actively work to empty my lungs. I had NOT been worried about the sound for some time, the machine is pretty quiet, but the leaky mask can be very loud. My wife found that sound to be worse than my snoring.
Thanks for the information.

_________________
MachineMask

User avatar
Pugsy
Posts: 62423
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 9:31 am
Location: Missouri, USA

Re: Machine causing insomnia

Post by Pugsy » Wed Jul 13, 2022 8:02 pm

EPR Exhale Pressure Relief when engaged and with room to function essentially creates a bilevel situation.
That's why we call the ResMed model machines with EPR the poor man's bilevel.

Your machine will have EPR available...now whether it is enabled and at what setting....we don't know
This is why I kept hounding you to get OSCAR....no guessing because OSCAR will give us all the settings.

BUT when using ramp and starting at 4 cm...EPR can't function even if it is on because the lowest the machine can go is 4 cm...and even so at the end of ramp the machine is only going to 5 cm...and you can't get more than a 1 cm drop down to 4 cm from the 5 cm.
Most people have a problem both in breathing and exhaling at such low pressures when EPR can't really help out.

The 15 cm max...it's a moot point because since you aren't going to sleep the machine won't be increasing the pressure from apnea events because you must be asleep for a sleep apnea event to happen. Since you aren't sleeping...no sleep apnea events can happen....pressure shouldn't be going up much since there's nothing to fight.

I will offer my standard suggestion for new people in your situation.

Change the minimum pressure to 7 cm
Turn EPR on "full time" and set it to 3.
Turn off the damn ramp.
Leave the max at 15 for now...I doubt seriously that you will even ever go there and if you do end up needing to go there we can cross that bridge later.

Try these settings while awake and under zero pressure to sleep at all. For now we just want to know if you can comfortably breathe at these settings. That's it.

Take my advice or don't....blow it off if you want to...tell us you "can't change anything" but that's simply not true.
You can do whatever you want to do if you want to do it badly enough. People change their settings all the time.
The link to the manual I gave you explains how to get to the setup menu area where you can make changes.

This is the simplest thing to do or try and if you are unwilling to at least try....I can't help and I won't even bother trying anymore. My patience level at this point is about as thin as one hair on my head.

Your choice....grow a pair and at least try or just continue with the pity party and you will quickly find out that you won't have very many guests at your pity party.
Absolutely NOTHING you have complained about is brand new to the world of cpap and despite what you think...yours isn't the worst case we have ever seen in the world. You aren't that special. You are no different than anyone else and your problems aren't really any different than others have had AND SUCCESSFULLY dealt with.
Now your attitude...is probably the worst I have seen and in 13 years here...I have seen a lot of bad attitudes.

You can at least TRY....if you don't try or won't try then return the machine so someone else who might need it can get a machine. These machines are in short supply....you are screwing up someone else's chance of getting a machine.

I will bend over backwards in an effort to help someone as long as they will AT LEAST TRY. Don't try...no help anymore and no more comments from me trying to explain anything or help you.
Your choice....put on your big boy panties and grow a pair or just quit. We can't force you to do anything you are unwilling to at least try.

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: Mask Bleep Eclipse https://bleepsleep.com/the-eclipse/
I may have to RISE but I refuse to SHINE.

User avatar
ozij
Posts: 9367
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 11:52 pm

Re: Machine causing insomnia

Post by ozij » Wed Jul 13, 2022 8:55 pm

My post here is for any other newbie having trouble adapting to CPAP who got to this thread because they need help. Read the wonderful helpful suggestions, remember all of us attempting to help the OP (Original Poster) have experienced nightly choking and developed a deep fear of sleep because of that - and it is those of us who have been helped by CPAP despite our insomnia, despite the trouble exhaling who have posted suggestions. Insomnia is a natural, deep seated response of a mind and body that know sleep is causing lack of oxygen and would therefore rather avoid sleep. Training your mind and body to accept a mask on your face, and air blowing in starts with accepting the thought that this will be the solution to the choking, and training takes time.

Then, dear other newbie, if you've come to this point in the thread, follow the instructions about posting your own first thread. Do that, and you will find many people willing to try and help you slog through that terribly tough time in the beginning. We'll be there, willing to spend time understanding what is going on with your CPAP therapy, helping you get to the point when you sleep well, and live well. We'll be there because we have suffered and struggled and have been helped by members of the forum, and want to help others.

_________________
Machine: ResMed AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: Bleep DreamPort CPAP Mask Solution
Additional Comments: Machine: AirSense??? 10 AutoSet??? For Her CPAP Machine with HumidAir??? Heated HumidifierSoftware: Oscar; alternating masks
And now here is my secret, a very simple secret; it is only with the heart that one can see rightly, what is essential is invisible to the eye.

Antoine de Saint-Exupery

User avatar
Pugsy
Posts: 62423
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 9:31 am
Location: Missouri, USA

Re: Machine causing insomnia

Post by Pugsy » Wed Jul 13, 2022 9:07 pm

You aren't the only one with insomnia issues....we have all had to deal with it at some time or another and sometimes still deal with it.

But I remembered RobySue...a forum member from the past with a long history of insomnia issues that predate her OSA diagnosis and cpap.
You might find something useful or interesting in her blog.

http://adventures-in-hosehead-land.blog ... er_19.html

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: Mask Bleep Eclipse https://bleepsleep.com/the-eclipse/
I may have to RISE but I refuse to SHINE.

User avatar
zonker
Posts: 9940
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:36 pm

Re: Machine causing insomnia

Post by zonker » Wed Jul 13, 2022 10:01 pm

ozij wrote:
Wed Jul 13, 2022 8:55 pm
We'll be there because we have suffered and struggled and have been helped by members of the forum, and want to help others.
well said. it's what forum friend lazarus has said, in other words.

i quote him in my signature below, as "jnk".
"the world is full of good people. if you can't find one, be one."-sleepgeek(avatar)

"I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
The sinners are much more fun
You know that only the good die young"-billy joel

joepublic23
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2022 11:15 am

Re: Machine causing insomnia

Post by joepublic23 » Thu Jul 14, 2022 9:04 am

You aren't the only one with insomnia issues....we have all had to deal with it at some time or another and sometimes still deal with it.

But I remembered RobySue...a forum member from the past with a long history of insomnia issues that predate her OSA diagnosis and cpap.
You might find something useful or interesting in her blog.

http://adventures-in-hosehead-land.blog ... er_19.html

_________________

Thank you so much. Whoever wrote THAT article total understands exactly what I am saying. (I do disagree with the no reading in bed rule though, it helps me wind down). I tried to explain what she said to my doctor and to the people at the equipment company but they didn't take my concerns seriously.

I don't fear OSA, snoring and occasionally waking up with a headache have long been an annoying but manageable part of my life. I DREAD insomnia however. It is debilitating and ruins everything. The first few weeks with the CPAP, resulted in my going from 6 hours of obstructed sleep per night to 1 hour of tossing and turning and 5 hours of obstructed sleep per night, but this week the monster re-awoke and is only letting me get 2 or 3 hours of obstructed sleep per night.

I am getting refitted for a mask on Tuesday, I am trying to decide if I continue attempting to use the CPAP until then or not. I am seeing the Doctor next month for some desensitization techniques. My thought is using a very powerful sedative.

_________________
MachineMask

User avatar
ozij
Posts: 9367
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 11:52 pm

Re: Machine causing insomnia

Post by ozij » Thu Jul 14, 2022 9:33 am

I remember RobySue!

I couldn't get to the link Pugsy supplied. Edit: turns out I couldn't get to the link that was quoted. But once I clicked on Pugsy's original (see following dialogue) it worked just fine

Which is why I'm writing the link again:

Taming the CPAP-Induced Insomnia Monster

_________________
Machine: ResMed AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: Bleep DreamPort CPAP Mask Solution
Additional Comments: Machine: AirSense??? 10 AutoSet??? For Her CPAP Machine with HumidAir??? Heated HumidifierSoftware: Oscar; alternating masks
Last edited by ozij on Thu Jul 14, 2022 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
And now here is my secret, a very simple secret; it is only with the heart that one can see rightly, what is essential is invisible to the eye.

Antoine de Saint-Exupery

User avatar
Pugsy
Posts: 62423
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 9:31 am
Location: Missouri, USA

Re: Machine causing insomnia

Post by Pugsy » Thu Jul 14, 2022 9:39 am

ozij wrote:
Thu Jul 14, 2022 9:33 am
I remember RobySue!

I couldn't get to the link Pugsy supplied.

Which is why I'm writing the link again:

Taming the CPAP-Induced Insomnia Monster
Hmmm...the link works on my end. Maybe the problem is where you are at.....I dunno.

Anyway, RobySue was quite active here for a long time then she had some personal stuff (totally unrelated to her OSA or machine use or sleep issues) come up that consumed so much of her time she didn't really have time for us here what with the family issues and her work.

And to the OP in this thread....RobySue has been successfully using her cpap for many, many years and got the insomnia issues from the cpap use itself sorted out long ago.
She still battles insomnia caused by other stuff though.

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: Mask Bleep Eclipse https://bleepsleep.com/the-eclipse/
I may have to RISE but I refuse to SHINE.

User avatar
ozij
Posts: 9367
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 11:52 pm

Re: Machine causing insomnia

Post by ozij » Thu Jul 14, 2022 9:55 am

Pugsy wrote:
Thu Jul 14, 2022 9:39 am
Hmmm...the link works on my end. Maybe the problem is where you are at.....I dunno.
Strange. I get it truncated, on both Edge, and Chrome, and even when attempting to quote it:
Do you get the full text?

_________________
Machine: ResMed AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: Bleep DreamPort CPAP Mask Solution
Additional Comments: Machine: AirSense??? 10 AutoSet??? For Her CPAP Machine with HumidAir??? Heated HumidifierSoftware: Oscar; alternating masks
And now here is my secret, a very simple secret; it is only with the heart that one can see rightly, what is essential is invisible to the eye.

Antoine de Saint-Exupery

User avatar
Pugsy
Posts: 62423
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 9:31 am
Location: Missouri, USA

Re: Machine causing insomnia

Post by Pugsy » Thu Jul 14, 2022 10:15 am

ozij wrote:
Thu Jul 14, 2022 9:55 am
Do you get the full text?
I do when I use the original link I posted which is this one
http://adventures-in-hosehead-land.blog ... er_19.html

but for the other links where someone quoted me...the link is broken because when you quote something that has a link in it the entire address will often get cut short.

Like the quoted one you used right above where you ask if I got full text....I could tell that link was broken because there is a line under parts of the address and not under some words.

When anyone quotes anything that has a link in it....often the link won't work.
All the text will get quoted but something breaks in any link addresses that get included in the quote.

What happens if you try the link I posted again here in this reply? Does it work? It should. I went directly to RobySue's blog and copied it. This isn't something I have copied and saved on a cheat sheet.

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: Mask Bleep Eclipse https://bleepsleep.com/the-eclipse/
I may have to RISE but I refuse to SHINE.

User avatar
ozij
Posts: 9367
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 11:52 pm

Re: Machine causing insomnia

Post by ozij » Thu Jul 14, 2022 11:52 am

This one works perfectly - I can see the line all through the elipsis to the very end.

When it didn't work, it was indeed from the quote, not on the link from your original mail.

Broken in the quote. Your original link was, and is, fine.

_________________
Machine: ResMed AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: Bleep DreamPort CPAP Mask Solution
Additional Comments: Machine: AirSense??? 10 AutoSet??? For Her CPAP Machine with HumidAir??? Heated HumidifierSoftware: Oscar; alternating masks
And now here is my secret, a very simple secret; it is only with the heart that one can see rightly, what is essential is invisible to the eye.

Antoine de Saint-Exupery

User avatar
ozij
Posts: 9367
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 11:52 pm

Re: Machine causing insomnia

Post by ozij » Thu Jul 14, 2022 12:07 pm

Pugsy wrote:
Thu Jul 14, 2022 10:15 am
ozij wrote:
Thu Jul 14, 2022 9:55 am
Do you get the full text?
I do when I use the original link I posted which is this one
http://adventures-in-hosehead-land.blog ... er_19.html
Actually, the quote using the tags doesn't break the link.
It's quoting through simple copy paste that does.

The following is a copy and paste of your text:
I do when I use the original link I posted which is this one
http://adventures-in-hosehead-land.blog ... er_19.html

Link broken.

_________________
Machine: ResMed AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: Bleep DreamPort CPAP Mask Solution
Additional Comments: Machine: AirSense??? 10 AutoSet??? For Her CPAP Machine with HumidAir??? Heated HumidifierSoftware: Oscar; alternating masks
And now here is my secret, a very simple secret; it is only with the heart that one can see rightly, what is essential is invisible to the eye.

Antoine de Saint-Exupery

User avatar
mummmz
Posts: 247
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:06 pm
Location: USA

Re: Machine causing insomnia

Post by mummmz » Thu Jul 14, 2022 2:22 pm

My doctor said no reading in bed because the light from the reading device (kindle, phone, etc) is not good for sleep...I looked at her and responded I'm reading an actual BOOK. lol She also said don't go changing your settings! Uh, I haven't changed my setting since I got my new machine EXCEPT for the one she told me to change. DUH

Remember doctors are supposed to work for us. We pay them, not the other way around. The most they can do is drop you as a patient. And that's ok because there are other, possibly better doctors out there.

I still haven't seen any response to what the OPs settings are other than pressure of 5-15, he thinks. Does he even have a CPAP or is he a troll just trying to stir things up? If not he should post an OSCAR report.

_________________
Machine: AirSense 11 Autoset
Mask: ResMed AirFit™ F30 Mask + 2 Replacement Cushions Bundle
Additional Comments: Autopap Min 8.4, max 15, ramp off, flex 3, heated humidity off, O2 therapy added 5/20/22 & discontinued 8/26/22 after asthmas dx/treatment

joepublic23
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2022 11:15 am

Re: Machine causing insomnia

Post by joepublic23 » Thu Jul 14, 2022 8:14 pm

I don’t have any Oscar reports because I can’t sleep with the machine at this point. I am not sure how to check all the settings.

_________________
MachineMask