Oscar chart

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
jumblegirl
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Re: Oscar chart

Post by jumblegirl » Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:26 am

https://imgur.com/a/m2OXAro

This is the report from the sleepon ring

It has seemed to be fairly accurate in the past, but is obviously reporting much higher # of events during 1-2 and 4-5 am than the machine is reporting. But the ring is using pulse ox data to measure. By matching I meant the events are occurring in the same hours.

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jumblegirl
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Re: Oscar chart

Post by jumblegirl » Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:45 am

“Go here and watch the videos and learn how to zoom in and evaluate the flow rate (breaths) for asleep vs arousal flow rate.
If awake/arousal related flagging then we worry more about sleep quality itself as in why the poor sleep.”

Pugsy, where do I go to watch the videos?

Actually I do know how to zoom
In on the flow rate but not how to evaluate it.

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jumblegirl
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Re: Oscar chart

Post by jumblegirl » Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:05 am

what do the numbers in paretheses next to each time mean (under the Events/ Central apneas)

This is the zoom in of one part of the night flow rate

https://imgur.com/a/6x57ygj

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jumblegirl
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Re: Oscar chart

Post by jumblegirl » Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:14 am

Also I do not know if this is just normal but it's clear most of the events are happening during REM sleep which I read is when the airway muscles are more relaxed.

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Dog Slobber
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Re: Oscar chart

Post by Dog Slobber » Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:14 am

jumblegirl wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:26 am
https://imgur.com/a/m2OXAro

This is the report from the sleepon ring

It has seemed to be fairly accurate in the past, but is obviously reporting much higher # of events during 1-2 and 4-5 am than the machine is reporting. But the ring is using pulse ox data to measure. By matching I meant the events are occurring in the same hours.
No they don't matchup.

And You CANNOT derive AHI from pulse ox.

Here is how your $100 toy (with medical disclaimers) *actually* matches against your $1000 CPAP (virtually accepted by all medical practitioners).


toy_AHI.png
toy_AHI.png (248.05 KiB) Viewed 79 times
Your ring graph claims 55 events between 1:00 and 2:00, your CPAP 4 or 5.

Please reconsider what you believe to be the more accurate device.

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Pugsy
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Re: Oscar chart

Post by Pugsy » Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:24 am

jumblegirl wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:45 am
“Go here and watch the videos and learn how to zoom in and evaluate the flow rate (breaths) for asleep vs arousal flow rate.
If awake/arousal related flagging then we worry more about sleep quality itself as in why the poor sleep.”

Pugsy, where do I go to watch the videos?

Actually I do know how to zoom
In on the flow rate but not how to evaluate it.

Sorry. Did I forget the link?
Brain got ahead of fingers again.
http://freecpapadvice.com/sleepyhead-free-software
Actually if you watch the videos they will explain how to evaluate.
Mask: Bleep no headgear mask.. https://bleepsleep.com/
Machine: AirCurve 10 VAuto

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jumblegirl
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Re: Oscar chart

Post by jumblegirl » Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:04 am

My home sleep study used pulse ox to diagnose sleep apnea and give an AHI. There was definitely no flow rate. and the way you superimposed the bar graph doesn't actually cover the whole hour on the Oscar graph - I'm not saying that the events are the same # just they occur in same place at least the ones from 4-5am. I think CPAP can miss respiratory events because it's a treatment tool not diagnostic, no? The sleep study is supposed to be diagnostic with a nasal canula plus pulse ox and the chest strap and electrodes. The ring may be a toy but it is what drove me to get a sleep study and convinced me I might have apnea. I was already concerned based on other pulse ox data that I had o2 desaturations.

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ChicagoGranny
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Re: Oscar chart

Post by ChicagoGranny » Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:15 am

jumblegirl wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:04 am
I think CPAP can miss respiratory events because it's a treatment tool not diagnostic, no?
CPAP is highly accurate at recognizing respiratory events. (If the mask is leaking badly, the accuracy may be off.) CPAP cannot recognize whether you are awake or asleep. So it may give false-positive events when awake.

Do you have any lung dysfunction that might cause blood-ox desaturations when you are breathing normally?

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Dog Slobber
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Re: Oscar chart

Post by Dog Slobber » Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:24 am

jumblegirl wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:04 am
My home sleep study used pulse ox to diagnose sleep apnea and give an AHI. There was definitely no flow rate. and the way you superimposed the bar graph doesn't actually cover the whole hour on the Oscar graph - I'm not saying that the events are the same # just they occur in same place at least the ones from 4-5am. I think CPAP can miss respiratory events because it's a treatment tool not diagnostic, no? The sleep study is supposed to be diagnostic with a nasal canula plus pulse ox and the chest strap and electrodes. The ring may be a toy but it is what drove me to get a sleep study and convinced me I might have apnea. I was already concerned based on other pulse ox data that I had o2 desaturations.
Your home sleep test did use pulse ox, but it did not use pulse ox to measure your AHI. It *likely* used nasal cannula to measure air flow and a belt to measure respiratory effort. It then used that data to determine AHI and Obstructive/Centrals

It did *NOT* use pulse ox to measure AHI.


And yes, the superimposed graph does have the potential for some leeway but there no way that it lines up consistently.

CPAP devices are treatment devices, but that doesn't mean the reported apneas are not accurately measured. They can't (necessarily) be used diagnose Apnea because they can't be used without applying pressure and thus treating.

Their reported AHI are post-treatment measurements.

I can show you dozens of peer reviewed studies comparing CPAP device accuracies. Show me one that shows the accuracy of your sleepon ring using pulse ox to measure AHI.

You need to decide if you accept your CPAP is a good tool for measuring and treating your Apnea. It doesn't make sense that you are questioning its accuracy, while at the same time obsessing over its reported numbers and insisting that everyone explain to you what they mean, so you can get a perfect night sleep tonight.

jumblegirl
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Re: Oscar chart

Post by jumblegirl » Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:45 am

"Your home sleep test did use pulse ox, but it did not use pulse ox to measure your AHI. It *likely* used nasal cannula to measure air flow and a belt to measure respiratory effort. It then used that data to determine AHI and Obstructive/Centrals

It did *NOT* use pulse ox to measure AHI."

My home sleep study had no nasal canula and no strap or belt. It was a watchpat one. I think it was a crappy overpriced tool but that is what Stanford Sleep Center ordered for me and I didn't want to wait until end of July which is when I could get an in-lab appt. I would have preferred a canula and strap to measure flow rate and breathing. But I had no idea what they were going to send me. There is another sleep center nearby that does use both those for home tests, but I didn't know that. Now of course my insurance does not even want to pay for in lab study so I have to appeal.

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jumblegirl
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Re: Oscar chart

Post by jumblegirl » Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:48 am

Pugsy wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:24 am
jumblegirl wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:45 am
“Go here and watch the videos and learn how to zoom in and evaluate the flow rate (breaths) for asleep vs arousal flow rate.
If awake/arousal related flagging then we worry more about sleep quality itself as in why the poor sleep.”

Pugsy, where do I go to watch the videos?

Actually I do know how to zoom
In on the flow rate but not how to evaluate it.

Sorry. Did I forget the link?
Brain got ahead of fingers again.
http://freecpapadvice.com/sleepyhead-free-software
Actually if you watch the videos they will explain how to evaluate.
Thanks these were helpful, although the intepretation mostly suggested the machines were marking false positives. Is this web site still active, the forum is not and it seems like they offer home sleep studies now but I don't know how up to date the site is.

_________________
Machine: AirSense 11 Autoset
Mask: AirTouch™ F20 For Her Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: APAP min 7/max 12, EPR off

jumblegirl
Posts: 101
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2022 7:34 am

Re: Oscar chart

Post by jumblegirl » Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:56 am

ChicagoGranny wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:15 am
jumblegirl wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:04 am
I think CPAP can miss respiratory events because it's a treatment tool not diagnostic, no?
CPAP is highly accurate at recognizing respiratory events. (If the mask is leaking badly, the accuracy may be off.) CPAP cannot recognize whether you are awake or asleep. So it may give false-positive events when awake.

Do you have any lung dysfunction that might cause blood-ox desaturations when you are breathing normally?
I have been diagnosed with asthma a long time ago but I do not have any symptoms or use any treatment right now.

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Pugsy
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Re: Oscar chart

Post by Pugsy » Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:58 am

jumblegirl wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:48 am
Is this web site still active, the forum is not and it seems like they offer home sleep studies now but I don't know how up to date the site is.
Actually the forum is still active but they are having some IT problems. I have sent Jason a message about the forum being screwed up. It's happened before and he has to get someone to fix whatever bug is in the forum software.
Jason runs the business that will do the home sleep studies.

And yes..the videos are talking about false positives a lot because so often people see centrals and panic.
You have to learn to spot the false positives to be able to spot the real centrals.

And another thing...the WatchPat home sleep study thing is actually very well thought of in the medical community.
Pretty darn accurate. Kaiser uses it routine for all their screening. Kaiser only will do in lab sleep studies when problems pop up with someone diagnosed using the WatchPat and they need further evaluation. It's not a crap sleep study at all.
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Miss Emerita
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Re: Oscar chart

Post by Miss Emerita » Thu Jun 16, 2022 12:06 pm

The WatchPAT test uses peripheral arterial tonometry. The device you clip onto your finger measures peripheral arterial tone along with O2 levels. There's a very thorough discussion of PAT-based apnea tests here:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaot ... le/1759186
Oscar software is available at https://www.sleepfiles.com/OSCAR/

jumblegirl
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Re: Oscar chart

Post by jumblegirl » Thu Jun 16, 2022 12:13 pm

What the watchpat actually measures on the finger is "peripheral arterial tonometry' I don't know how that compares to measuring with a nasal cannula or chest strap.

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Machine: AirSense 11 Autoset
Mask: AirTouch™ F20 For Her Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: APAP min 7/max 12, EPR off