CPAPtalk.com

Applecheeks, I'm so interested to see your graph. I don't think I've seen that particular pattern before. (Doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it!)

Here's what my usual looks like. I do think the oscillations between breaths are cardioballistic artifacts. It makes sense to me that they'd telegraph only when there wasn't any airflow through the airway.

Applecheeks wrote: ↑

Sat May 28, 2022 9:56 pm

Miss Emerita wrote: ↑

Sat May 28, 2022 11:58 am

The idealized flow trace inside the O in the Oscar emblem is much closer to reality than the trace in the video.

This is typical of my asleep pattern with no flow limitations, @5 cm pressure, 1 cm EPR, no snore, no leaks. Doesn't seem at all like the OSCAR logo.
typical breathing patterns.jpg

Because what you're showing there is not normal sleep breathing.

Miss Emerita wrote: ↑

Sun May 29, 2022 12:09 pm

Applecheeks, I'm so interested to see your graph. I don't think I've seen that particular pattern before. (Doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it!)

Here's what my usual looks like. I do think the oscillations between breaths are cardioballistic artifacts. It makes sense to me that they'd telegraph only when there wasn't any airflow through the airway.


Normal flow trace.png

Yes, THAT is an example of normal sleep breathing.

palerider wrote: ↑

Sun May 29, 2022 12:42 pm

It would be helpful if you would describe the distinction that makes my pattern abnormal as compared with Miss E.

By the way, I notice that we are using two different machines, and I have no idea of Miss E’s pressures. Does that make any difference?

My pressure when I inhale is 10; when I exhale, 5.

Hi Miss E,
And you are using a bipap (I’m not knowledgeable with the machine in your profile)

My machine is a Resmed Airsense 11 autoset elite in Apap mode with EPR set for 1 full time.

Miss Emerita wrote: ↑

Sun May 29, 2022 12:09 pm

Applecheeks, I'm so interested to see your graph. I don't think I've seen that particular pattern before. (Doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it!)

Me neither

Applecheeks wrote: ↑

Sun May 29, 2022 4:38 pm

palerider wrote: ↑

Sun May 29, 2022 12:42 pm

It would be helpful if you would describe the distinction that makes my pattern abnormal as compared with Miss E.

By the way, I notice that we are using two different machines, and I have no idea of Miss E’s pressures. Does that make any difference?

The pressure and machine type do not make a difference.

The exceptional thing about your pattern is the long, shallow exhale.
In human beings, inhaling is an effort, exhaling is simple a "letting go" - so quite a bit of air rushes out immediately, which is the pointed dip you can see in Miss E.'s graph, and in the Oscar logo. Your exhale has no dip, is seems relatively shallow compared to most graphs.

Applecheeks wrote: ↑

Sun May 29, 2022 4:38 pm

palerider wrote: ↑

Sun May 29, 2022 12:42 pm

It would be helpful if you would describe the distinction that makes my pattern abnormal as compared with Miss E.

If you can't *SEE* the difference then I'm quite sure nobody can describe it to you.

Applecheeks wrote: ↑

Sun May 29, 2022 4:38 pm

By the way, I notice that we are using two different machines, and I have no idea of Miss E’s pressures. Does that make any difference?

No.

ozij wrote: ↑

Sun May 29, 2022 10:24 pm

The exceptional thing about your pattern is the long, shallow exhale.
In human beings, inhaling is an effort, exhaling is simple a "letting go" - so quite a bit of air rushes out immediately, which is the pointed dip you can see in Miss E.'s graph, and in the Oscar logo. Your exhale has no dip, is seems relatively shallow compared to most graphs.

So what does the non-typical exhalation curve mean and what might cause this:
1) I'm not human? (haha)
2) there is some restriction in the airway that is preventing the sudden out rush of air (but that restriction is not seen on inhalation)
3) For some reason I am not "letting go", but controlling my chest muscles rate of relaxation.

Your speculation?

palerider wrote: ↑

Sun May 29, 2022 10:55 pm

If you can't *SEE* the difference then I'm quite sure nobody can describe it to you.

I SEE the difference alright, and @ozij did a good job in describing the non-typical part and why it is non-typical. His answer was helpful.

On the other hand, your answer implies that I am stupid because I can't "SEE". Being cranky and dismissive seems to be part of your sthick, your performance. That undermines your credibility - do you realize that? No need to reply to me.

Applecheeks....how about starting a new separate thread with your questions about your flow rate/breathing?
That one little snippet doesn't look like my asleep breathing flow rate either but I haven't had time to think on it very much to figure out what the deal is or if it is even a problem or not.

Is that the same pattern that you see all night long when you are asleep or does it ever change?

I would like to keep your problem separate in this situation for various reasons. You could link back to your posts here as part of the first post.
When you do a separate post how about including a typical night's overall detailed report in the traditional format and then include the snippet.
Do you know the "normal" routine? If not I show examples here.
http://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic/t1585 ... eview.html

Applecheeks wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 6:50 am

ozij wrote: ↑

Sun May 29, 2022 10:24 pm

The exceptional thing about your pattern is the long, shallow exhale.
In human beings, inhaling is an effort, exhaling is simple a "letting go" - so quite a bit of air rushes out immediately, which is the pointed dip you can see in Miss E.'s graph, and in the Oscar logo. Your exhale has no dip, is seems relatively shallow compared to most graphs.

So what does the non-typical exhalation curve mean and what might cause this:
1) I'm not human? (haha)
2) there is some restriction in the airway that is preventing the sudden out rush of air (but that restriction is not seen on inhalation)
3) For some reason I am not "letting go", but controlling my chest muscles rate of relaxation.

Your speculation?

I'm don't have the knowledge to make a reasonable speculation.
Here's what I can say:
You stated that's your typical "sleeping" breathing pattern, at a pressure of 5 and EPR of 1.
Could it be you were not sleeping? Do you ever see the more typical patterns?

When I saw your breathing pattern, I searched your messages to see if you have other health conditions. You did mention some. I don't know if and how what you mentioned is related to that breathing pattern. But I wonder: Do you actually use the APAP to treat sleep apnea i.e. sleep induced breathing stops? Or do you have another condition for which continuous positive air pressure may be necessary to help your breathing / oxygen exchange at night?

I know some medications change our breathing - I certainly don't know which do what and how whatever they do looks on the flow rate graph.

Applecheeks wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 7:05 am

His answer was ....

That should be "her answer"....

ozij wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 7:32 am

I'm don't have the knowledge to make a reasonable speculation.
Here's what I can say:
You stated that's your typical "sleeping" breathing pattern, at a pressure of 5 and EPR of 1.

At this point I don't have enough knowledge either which is why I asked for a new thread so we can isolate this question and maybe get attention of someone else who might have the knowledge.
I also don't know if maybe the machine not being able to go below 4 cm is somehow showing us exhale to that 4 cm and simply can't show less.....and 5 with EPR 1 does mean 4 cm.

I am wondering what the flow rate would look like if there weren't those restrictions????? If there were more room available for movement.

Where's SWS when we want him?

ozij wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 7:32 am

Could it be you were not sleeping?

If I define sleeping as "in my partner has to shake me to get me to respond" - yes I was clearly sleeping.

Do you ever see the more typical patterns?

Yes, I do, but only at higher pressures. Those higher pressures having been initiated by "flow limitations" (distorted flow curves).

Do you actually use the APAP to treat sleep apnea i.e. sleep induced breathing stops?

Longish story, I was sent for a home sleep study at the insistence of my electrophysiologist (EP is treating me for AFIB). Pulmonologist who interpreted the home study initially recommended NO treatment in spite of knowing that I had occasional AFIB - therefore no PAP was ordered. The EP guy told the Pul guy that Apnea causes AFIB and insisted that the Pul guy order APAP. That's how I've been on APAP for the last six months or so.

By the way, the frequency of AFIB events (1 to 2 a month) has not changed in the past six months. For whatever it's worth, my OSCAR average for the past six months is : AHI 2.4, OA 0.37, CA 0.22, and HI is 1.75 (so my bias seems to be toward shallow breathing). I also don't see any abnormal sleep days just prior to an AFIB episode, and almost all of my AFIB events are occurring mid-day so it appears to my way of thinking that any apneas do not (for me) trigger an AFIB event.

So the short answer is: I'm not sure why I'm "actually" using APAP.

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 7:24 am

Applecheeks....how about starting a new separate thread with your questions about your flow rate/breathing?

Just saw you request, I was off typing a reply to @ozij.

I'd be glad to start a new thread - I'll begin with my breath pattern and add (by link) the conversation that follows. Will that do it?