Cpap for extended wilderness camping?

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
Rob K
Posts: 587
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:22 pm

Re: Cpap for extended wilderness camping?

Post by Rob K » Fri May 13, 2022 8:28 pm

Glacierjay that is an awesome review on the GP-14. I've been eye balling that one for some time and like you say it's a bit large, great for a week long car camp though. Thanks so much for posting all the details which helps us all a lot. It sure seems odd that you would only get 2.5 nights from the cigarette socket and 9 nights from the 5.5mm socket. I would assume both of those are supplied by the same 12vdc. I would agree that all the extras are not needed on that pack.

Looking at the Nitecore also. Wish capacity was a little higher. A couple of those would seem good for backpacking plus a solar panel. Let me know what you figure out.

I tested the Z2 with my adjustable power supply and the motor definitely lags or runs slower when running on 12vdc. There is a significant delay in the reaction time of the motor when using the Z-Breathe exhale relief setting. The higher the setting the more lag. So the machine can be run on 12v in a pinch but certainly not ideal.

We are both running the same pressure. I'm actually set to 7.5cm right now, but 7 works decent also.

For car camping or kayak camping I'd like to have a power bank in the 40,000mah hour range. With two of those packs you could go 4 days before one would need to set up the solar panel to charge the battery. Or could go a week with two batteries without charging if it was particularly cloudy and rainy.

I'm researching heavily this week. I have 3-4 weeks left to figure out what to buy and test it before leaving. So likely will order something within the next week. I hate to waste money on a power bank and solar panel that ends up not working for what I need but getting short on time. Sifting through all the technical data on these power banks has been a major pita. Tough to know what to expect when using it to run your cpap. It sounds like some of the batteries are temperamental. It's so valuable when someone posts detailed info.

FYI I've been reading about graphene batteries. Everything about them seems better than lithium. Safer, run cooler, lighter, more efficient,etc. They sound like the future of portable power banks. The ones available right now are small capacity and expensive.

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ N10 Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Resmed F10 Mask for colds. When camping on battery power I use P10 mask and PR 560p machine.
Last edited by Rob K on Mon May 16, 2022 7:56 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Rob K
Posts: 587
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:22 pm

Re: Cpap for extended wilderness camping?

Post by Rob K » Fri May 13, 2022 8:36 pm

I have a dc meter that measures a number of things. I'll start running it tonight using the original power supply and see what it tells me. I don't have a battery yet.

You definitely want to unplug the Z2 when not using it. It draws around 21-23mA in standby mode or around 5wh over a 16 hour day.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07T9 ... UTF8&psc=1
Image


I had to get some 5.5mm x 2.1mm adapters to connect it to the Z2.
Image

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ N10 Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Resmed F10 Mask for colds. When camping on battery power I use P10 mask and PR 560p machine.
Last edited by Rob K on Thu May 19, 2022 11:48 am, edited 5 times in total.

Rob K
Posts: 587
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:22 pm

Re: Cpap for extended wilderness camping?

Post by Rob K » Fri May 13, 2022 8:41 pm

Here's the readings with the machine running at 7.5cm while I hold my breath so the readings are stable. Did this just to get ball park idea of what it draws when being used. Current draw seems to vary up around 100ma and down 100ma when breathing. Ball park 100-300ma when using the device a 7.5cm.

Image

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ N10 Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Resmed F10 Mask for colds. When camping on battery power I use P10 mask and PR 560p machine.
Last edited by Rob K on Wed May 18, 2022 8:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

Rob K
Posts: 587
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:22 pm

Re: Cpap for extended wilderness camping?

Post by Rob K » Sat May 14, 2022 8:44 am

Here's some results from last night. Used the dc monitor in line with the ac power supply and the Z2 Auto.
Mode Cpap
Pressure 7.5cm
Time machine ran 7:08
15v x 1.66ah = 25wh

Night 2: Cpap, 7.5cm, 7:08time, 15v x 1.65ah = 24wh
Night 3: Cpap, 7.5cm, 6:34time, 15v x 1.33ah = 25wh
Night 4: Cpap, 7.5cm, 8:34time, 15v x 1.71ah = 25wh
Night 5: Cpap, 8cm, 8:20time, 15v x 1.86ah = 28wh
Night 6: Cpap, 8cm, 9:37time, 15v x 2.09ah = 31wh

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ N10 Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Resmed F10 Mask for colds. When camping on battery power I use P10 mask and PR 560p machine.
Last edited by Rob K on Sun May 22, 2022 8:37 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Bouteloua
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri May 07, 2021 7:27 pm

Re: Cpap for extended wilderness camping?

Post by Bouteloua » Sat May 14, 2022 12:46 pm

So according to these reviews,the Renogy battery bank does well powering a Breas Z2 at 12 volts. https://www.amazon.com/Renogy-72000mAh- ... ll_reviews Even so I have to wonder if it would do better with a DC to DC booster to take it to 15 volts.

According to these reviews you can get several nights from a charge on the Renogy (266 watt hours) where the propriety power shell battery has a much more limited capacity and means of charging. But it does have a DC to DC booster that ups the voltage to 15.

On Amazon, there are many DC to DC booster/converters than can do this. Here's one. https://www.amazon.com/Adjustable-Regul ... NrPXRydWU=

Rob K
Posts: 587
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:22 pm

Re: Cpap for extended wilderness camping?

Post by Rob K » Sat May 14, 2022 7:30 pm

Like I mentioned before the Z2 can be run on 12vdc even though Breas does not recommend it. The motor runs slower and lags in response to your breathing. I have no way to measure it but the pressure at the mask is a little less when running at 12v compared to 15v. So therapy is reduced when running at a lower voltage. Others have said they noticed a difference in the quality of therapy at 12v. One would need to increase pressure to maintain peak therapy running on 12v and live with the motor lag. So the Z2 running on 12v will work but not ideal. It depends on whether or not one is willing to live with the differences. I also suspect Breas won't warranty the unit if there is problems and they find out it was being run at 12vdc.

It will be interesting to see what glacierjay reports with the Renogy battery when running his machine from the PD(usb-c) output at 15v. The machine should run normally. Curious to see how many wh and days he gets running at 7cm of pressure.

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ N10 Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Resmed F10 Mask for colds. When camping on battery power I use P10 mask and PR 560p machine.

glacierjay
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun May 01, 2022 9:04 am

Re: Cpap for extended wilderness camping?

Post by glacierjay » Sun May 15, 2022 9:38 am

Quick note on the Nitecore NB2000 battery. It was quite disappointing. I charged it up all the way, then used the Jacobparts 15V USB-C PD trigger cable to run it. I got one 7-hour night plus about 6 hours last night before it gave up. Measured 23 watt-hours the first night and 18 the second.
Next steps:
I'll contact Nitecore support about why the battery would quit after only 41 watt-hours. They estimated it would get me through 3 nights. I hope I have a defective battery -- I'll update as I hear back from them.
I'll also try to contact Jacobparts. Maybe the 15V trigger cable uses a lot of power?

Rob K
Posts: 587
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:22 pm

Re: Cpap for extended wilderness camping?

Post by Rob K » Sun May 15, 2022 10:59 pm

Nitecore NB20000:
20,000mah/1000 = 22ah
22ah x 3.85v = 77wh of internal battery capacity(some of this will be lost during voltage conversion to 15v)

They also list a spec of: 13,500mah@5v
13,500mah/1000 = 13.5ah
13.5ah x 5v = 67.5wh

So converting 3.85v to 5v there was a loss of 9.5wh with the NB20000

We don't know the efficiency of the circuitry so I wish they would list the capacity specs at 15v. All we can do is take a guess, lets say it's 50wh. Possibly the circuitry will turn off the power before the battery gets to depleted so maybe less than 50wh.

Will be interesting to hear what they say. I would think they tested the capacity at all the voltages so I'd ask them what it is at 15v.

I've been looking at power banks in the 30k-40kmah range(110wh-150wh) Figuring the average bank should get me around 3-4 nights@7-8cm. A lot of power banks are 100wh and I feel like those will be 2+ nights@7-8cm. Especially with conversion losses and using them in cold temps. That's all speculation though based off what I have read. I don't have any to test yet. I'm trying to avoid wasting a bunch of money on units that aren't going to do what I need them to.

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ N10 Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Resmed F10 Mask for colds. When camping on battery power I use P10 mask and PR 560p machine.

Rob K
Posts: 587
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:22 pm

Re: Cpap for extended wilderness camping?

Post by Rob K » Wed May 18, 2022 6:44 pm

I was pondering dc boost converters to get from 12v to 15v. I'm thinking my best option is going to be a pd(usb-c) car charger. This will allow me to run my cpap in the vehicle if I ever need to do that, hopefully never. With the 12v cables I already have it will allow me to connect to any 12v battery and get 15v to the Z2. I'm also thinking of getting the Renogy 72000 power bank which has a cigarette style socket so the car charger would give me another option on that device in case the usb c connector fails. A pd car charger would give me a lot of options to run the Z2. The power banks I've been looking at can do fast charging at 60w so I would get a 100w charger so that it is not being pushed to hard and hopefully last for some time given that they are not cheap. My Jeep cig socket can handle 160w max so it also will not be pushed to the limit. Also a 100w charger will allow for faster charging power banks in the future if I decide the 60w input banks are to slow to charge. Probably going to stick with Baseus brand chargers since that is the power banks I'm looking at getting. Less problematic having it all be the same brand, I hope. This one is nice since it shows the voltage and power that it is supplying.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09MF ... SBV3&psc=1
Image




I have cables like these already from using 12v deep cycle batteries.
https://www.amazon.com/NOCO-GC018-Adapt ... 117&sr=8-3
Image

https://www.amazon.com/NOCO-GC017-Adapt ... 117&sr=8-5
Image

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ N10 Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Resmed F10 Mask for colds. When camping on battery power I use P10 mask and PR 560p machine.
Last edited by Rob K on Thu May 19, 2022 11:06 am, edited 10 times in total.

Rob K
Posts: 587
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:22 pm

Re: Cpap for extended wilderness camping?

Post by Rob K » Wed May 18, 2022 6:56 pm

This is one of the newer GaN(gallium nitride) pd wall chargers that are smaller, more efficient and run cooler. Not the latest technology but pretty new. This will fast charge the power banks I'm looking at via usb c ports and will have extra capacity in case I upgrade banks in the future. The multiple charge ports will allow me to charge several devices at the same time with just one charger. White in color so it stands out, so I don't lose or forget stuff.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B097X ... HYND&psc=1
Image

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ N10 Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Resmed F10 Mask for colds. When camping on battery power I use P10 mask and PR 560p machine.
Last edited by Rob K on Thu May 19, 2022 11:07 am, edited 3 times in total.

Rob K
Posts: 587
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:22 pm

Re: Cpap for extended wilderness camping?

Post by Rob K » Wed May 18, 2022 7:12 pm

I'm really disappointed in the selection of rugged waterproof power banks and solar panels for the outdoors. None of the compact lightweight systems that I've looked at allow for charging in questionable wet weather. For now you have to build that system yourself. Until I can get around to it I'm going to skip the solar panel and just get enough power banks to get me through a couple weeks. I'll charge at home for now until I figure things out further. Just having lithium polymer batteries will be a huge upgrade from the very heavy agm batteries I have been using. The downside is that the new setup is much more complex and more than likely less reliable. You can't beat the simplicity of a 12v battery and a cable to run your cpap. With all the extra electronics of the pd chargers and power banks they are bound to be more problematic. We'll see if I have the patience for it and whether or not it was an expensive mistake. :shock:

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ N10 Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Resmed F10 Mask for colds. When camping on battery power I use P10 mask and PR 560p machine.
Last edited by Rob K on Wed May 18, 2022 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Rob K
Posts: 587
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:22 pm

Re: Cpap for extended wilderness camping?

Post by Rob K » Wed May 18, 2022 7:33 pm

There's a million power banks on the market and it's tough to come by info for the Z2 being run on the various power banks. It looks like I'm going to have to be one of guinea pigs and roll the dice. These are the power banks that I'm thinking of getting. They check most of the boxes for my requirements but not all of them, so still a gamble.

I'm hoping I can squeeze 3 nights out of the Baseus 30000mah 65w power bank at a pressure of 7-8cm. Wanting to use these with a solar panel eventually and for kayak camping. I'll get two of them which hopefully will do three nights each for a total of 6 nights without solar charging in case of several rainy days. In reality it will probably end up being less, maybe I'll get lucky. They have a display that tells you battery percentage, voltage and current.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08JV ... J8QV&psc=1
Image


The other one I'm looking at is the huge capacity Renogy 72000mah power bank which will be no problem to haul around in the Jeep. This will also work well with my old Phillips machine that I used to use for camping. It will be my back up machine, hopefully never have to use it again.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0791 ... XAC6&psc=1
Image

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ N10 Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Resmed F10 Mask for colds. When camping on battery power I use P10 mask and PR 560p machine.
Last edited by Rob K on Fri May 20, 2022 11:43 am, edited 6 times in total.

Rob K
Posts: 587
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:22 pm

Re: Cpap for extended wilderness camping?

Post by Rob K » Wed May 18, 2022 8:02 pm

Everything I listed above will output 15v@3amps = 45watts through the pd(usb-c) port with the correct 15v usb c cable. The Z2 ac power adapter supplies 30w so the 45w from all these devices will be more than enough even if you are running at maximum pressure. From what I've seen running the Z2 at 7-8cm, the power used is very minimal compared to my large machines.

These are the 15v usb-c pd trigger cables with 5.5mm x 2.1mm end for connecting to the Z2. These look like cheap cables but all I could find for now. Good to have a backup in case one fails. Will keep an eye out for something of better quality for the future.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08NS ... 76JE&psc=1
Image

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ N10 Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Resmed F10 Mask for colds. When camping on battery power I use P10 mask and PR 560p machine.
Last edited by Rob K on Sat May 21, 2022 7:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Rob K
Posts: 587
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:22 pm

Re: Cpap for extended wilderness camping?

Post by Rob K » Wed May 18, 2022 8:40 pm

Also getting one of these usb meters so that I can verify that everything is working the way it is supposed to. This one comes with an adjustable load resister for draining the battery and testing the capacity not that it is necessary. I'm sort of an electronics nerd since that's what my college degrees are based on. I tend to be out of the loop these days. Technology changes so fast I can't keep up with it all so I don't try to hard. I prefer to worry more about camping and fishing and stuff like that. :mrgreen:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08CX ... UTF8&psc=1
Image

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ N10 Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Resmed F10 Mask for colds. When camping on battery power I use P10 mask and PR 560p machine.

Rob K
Posts: 587
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:22 pm

Re: Cpap for extended wilderness camping?

Post by Rob K » Thu May 19, 2022 12:20 pm

craighagan wrote:
Sun Apr 03, 2022 2:59 pm
I've a Z2. I both family camp and camp with scouts, often at places without electricity. Feel free to reach out if you have questions.
https://github.com/craighagan/hackproje ... PAP/HDM_Z2
Thanks so much for posting that link to your equipment. It has been very helpful.

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ N10 Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Resmed F10 Mask for colds. When camping on battery power I use P10 mask and PR 560p machine.
Last edited by Rob K on Sat May 21, 2022 8:03 pm, edited 3 times in total.