Cpap for extended wilderness camping?

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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chunkyfrog
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Re: Cpap for extended wilderness camping?

Post by chunkyfrog » Sat Apr 02, 2022 1:47 pm

Too bad the Everest is no longer made.
A favorite of campers and bikers, obviously.
Remember the weird cpap that strapped on top of your head?
That design session had to be hilarious.

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Rob K
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Re: Cpap for extended wilderness camping?

Post by Rob K » Sat Apr 02, 2022 2:42 pm

I haven't heard of any of that stuff. I'm going to take a look.

cpap.com lists the Everest 3 as out of stock. When you click on it says no longer available and they recommend the Transcend.

If they could make a cpap small enough to wear on my head I'd be all for that. Integrate it into the mask. Small enough to carry it in a pocket would be most amazing. I suspect the main limitation is the amount of airflow needed and the size of the blower to do that.

Pretty frustrating being dependent on electricity. Wish I could just give up camping, that would make this all a lot easier. :D I love it though and the places I visit.

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Additional Comments: Resmed F10 Mask for colds. When camping on battery power I use P10 mask and PR 560p machine.
Last edited by Rob K on Sun Apr 03, 2022 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ray4852
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Re: Cpap for extended wilderness camping?

Post by Ray4852 » Sun Apr 03, 2022 6:36 am

You don't have to give up camping. what's a little electricity. if you need it, you produce it yourself. I boondock. I also need a Cpap. What I use to power my cpap. A lithium battle born 100 amp hour battery. I have 3 of them in my camper. two generators with 3 battery chargers to keep my batteries toped off. my cpap can last up to 5 nights running on low power with one 100 amp battery. I also have a 100 amp solar panel. right now I'm at the boarder line of needing an oxygen concentrator with my cpap. those machines need electricity. if I have to go on one of them, I hope not. I'm ready to buy a 200 amp hour lithium battery to power that bad boy. you don't have to give up what you enjoy doing.

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loggerhead12
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Re: Cpap for extended wilderness camping?

Post by loggerhead12 » Sun Apr 03, 2022 6:51 am

I can't remember if you were willing to look at DIY but this guy built what you wanted (the wilderness camping battery, not the wearable CPAP). He mentions that you could go bigger or smaller and use solar to recharge, either way. Fascinating project.

https://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic/t176 ... ilit=18650
Last edited by loggerhead12 on Sun Apr 03, 2022 9:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

Ray4852
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Re: Cpap for extended wilderness camping?

Post by Ray4852 » Sun Apr 03, 2022 7:48 am

Those DIY projects are fun to build if you have the electrical skill to build one. YouTube is loaded with videos that show you how to build one. I built my own solar power camping box with a lithium 100 amp battery. the battery sits in a NOCO battery group 32 battery box with a victron smart shunt to mentored how many watts I take out of my battery. I have another NOCO box same kind that sits on top of my battery box. the box on top has all the plugs and USB ports I need along with a 300 amp inverter. all plugs are marine grade 15 amp socket wired to its own circuit on a board. both boxes connect together with a 50 amp Anderson power plug. when its time to charge my battery I disconnect the plug take the battery box to a location to charge my battery with a solar panel or battery charger. I have everything setup with my iPad to mentored how many watts I put back in my battery with the victron app. I build two power stations like this. if you build one never keep the battery in the same box with the electrical components. lead acids batteries leak gas that will corrode your components. only way to go is lithium. those commercial boxes you see on the market are good for somebody that has no electrical skill. they work but the companies build them with a lot of stuff you don't need. if you have a problem with it. you have to send it back for repair.

craighagan
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Re: Cpap for extended wilderness camping?

Post by craighagan » Sun Apr 03, 2022 2:59 pm

I've a Z2. I both family camp and camp with scouts, often at places without electricity. The challenge really is how many days at a time will you be camping, how much power do you need per night (function of your settings), and what are your recharge options. I use a usb-c trigger cable to power the machine, which gives me some power efficiency.

If you do go solar, there are "ok" options, the problem is that a solar cell of merit is still fairly large, and you want something waterproof. I used a 50w one last summer with scouts and will use it again this coming summer. Even with poor weather it can usually provide enough power to recharge a battery pack from a night's usage and charging my phone.

How much draw a Z2 takes? I backpack with a 30,000mah battery (114wH), my settings are 5/auto, and I can get 2 nights out of that and still charge my and my son's cell phone.

And, yah, its annoying it takes 15v, it technically will start with 12v, but i think it either can't do APAP or can't run the motor at much pressure, I've never had it work. A 15v USB-C trigger cable is easy to buy these days, so not a big deal.

My gear is documented here. Look there for the 50w waterproof solar panel I have. its not bad, and can wrap around my sleeping bag (I won't backpack with it, too heavy). It IS waterproof, and mine has endured several days of pouring rain, I just kept my battery dry. When I'm not camping, I often use it via an omni charge to run my laptop at a park while being a professional vagrant. IF you get that one, check the note on plug polarity - i may have received a bad cable, or they may just ship with weird cables. Make sure you use a power bank which can handle solar input (e.g. has its own MPPT charger, such as the omnicharge/renogy that I have)

Feel free to reach out if you have questions.

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Re: Cpap for extended wilderness camping?

Post by Rob K » Sun Apr 03, 2022 6:26 pm

Thanks for the insights everyone. I have schooling and close to 30 years experience in electronics. I can assemble something but have a ton of other things to do in life. I was hoping to just buy what I need an move on but it appears that is not going to happen.

Your right I'll end up needing to buy a solar panel with mc4 connectors, likely in 50watt range. I need one that folds down to fit inside my 11.5" kayak hatch. It seems all of the compact folding panels come with dc plug or usb connections and not waterproof mc4 connections. I'm still on the hunt for that product. The other option that I've seen done, which I'm not very excited to do, is charging batteries on the kayak. A smaller panel would work since I could charge everyday when paddling and fishing. I'm not always kayaking so something that is dual purpose would be ideal. Something that will work for the car camp and the kayak/canoe camp.

I camp for up to two weeks at a time. I'd go much longer if I could get off work but that doesn't happen. Right now I can only dream of being out there for longer periods.

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Last edited by Rob K on Sun Apr 03, 2022 7:02 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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SleepGeek
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Re: Cpap for extended wilderness camping?

Post by SleepGeek » Sun Apr 03, 2022 6:44 pm

I also have put together many battery boxes but also have a couple of the Sears 1150 Jump Starters. They have served many purposes for me yet I still use one at home where my cpap is plugged into it. It may be hard to find that model these days but I think having a handle, the options, and all pre-built in a case ready to go made it attractive to me.

This is where I learned about it https://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic/t649 ... on+gumbyct

But hopefully you can find another model that will work for you.
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craighagan
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Re: Cpap for extended wilderness camping?

Post by craighagan » Sun Apr 03, 2022 6:57 pm

Rob K wrote:
Sun Apr 03, 2022 6:26 pm
Thanks for the insights everyone. I have schooling and close to 30 years experience in electronics. I can assemble something but have a ton of other things to do in life. I was hoping to just buy what I need an move on but it appears that is not going to happen.

Your right I'll end up needing to buy a solar panel with mc4 connectors, likely in 50watt range. I need one that folds down to fit inside my 11.5" kayak hatch. I'm still on the hunt for that product. The other option that I've seen done, which I'm not very excited to do, is charging batteries on the kayak. A smaller panel would work since I could charge everyday when paddling and fishing. I'm not always kayaking so something that is dual purpose would be ideal. Something that will work for the car camp and the kayak/canoe camp.

I camp for up to two weeks at a time. I'd go much longer if I could get off work but that doesn't happen. Right now I can only dream of being out there for longer periods.
not sure you need to assemble that much. there is a lot of kit these days that is just plug/play.

Alternative to putting a cell in your kayak: get a 50w flexible waterproof one, and something to cover the exposed plug, and lash it on the outside. I'm planning on doing that for a canoeing trip. You. might be able to have it cabled up to a battery stowed in a dry bag below -- thats my intention.

Rob K
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Re: Cpap for extended wilderness camping?

Post by Rob K » Sun Apr 03, 2022 7:07 pm

Yes not as limited on panel size with a canoe. Inside a kayak hatch is a different story. Needs to be 11.5" width to fit through my hatch and stow it away. I use my kayak on the Great Lakes so safety is priority number one. Having as little as possible on deck is important. I hate to lash to many things up top. In case of capsize each item makes it harder to get the craft back upright.

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Ray4852
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Re: Cpap for extended wilderness camping?

Post by Ray4852 » Mon Apr 04, 2022 5:58 am

This is what I would do. buy a couple of those small battery packs that will run your cpap at night. bring one lithium battery 100 amp with you to keep those battery packs charged up. bring a cable with a usb plug to transfer power from the bigger battery to charge the small battery packs. solar is good but if you don't get any sun what good is it. your next option is better than any solar panel you can buy is put in a DC to DC charger in your car or truck. this charger will charge up everything in a few hours. those small flexible solar panels you see, are very overrated. they are expensive and wont last very long. if you want solar go with the Renogy 100 amp solar suitcase. the eclipse panel is a little better but the regular panel still put out 6.5 amps with the PWM charger controller. this panel will keep your big battery toped off the power you need for the small battery packs.

Rob K
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Re: Cpap for extended wilderness camping?

Post by Rob K » Tue Apr 05, 2022 1:59 pm

For solar panels I'm looking at a compact folding type with waterproof connectors. They can be rigid, semi-flexible or flexible depending on materials used and how they are made. The solar cells are typically silicon or cigs(copper indium gallium selenide). Silicon is more efficient in bright sunlight and cigs is more efficient in low light.

The semi-flexible panels are usually silicon wafers sliced extremely thin to create solar cells. Cigs is a powder that gets burned onto a backer and can create a even thinner, more flexible, more durable and lighter panel.

On the flexible panels the coating of the cells is typically pet or etfe. Etfe being newer and more durable.

There are a lot of folding panels that are sewn into fabric. Fabric absorbs water. I want the more waterproof laminated panels like the Anker photo I posted earlier or like this Sunjack panel.

What I mentioned is all simplified and didn't cover a lot of things since it would to technical and complicated. Basically I'm looking for a around a 50w laminated folding etfe cigs panel with waterproof connectors. Not easy to find since most everything seems to come with non waterproof usb jacks. :roll:

https://sunjack.com/collections/all-pro ... rger-panel
Image

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Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ N10 Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Resmed F10 Mask for colds. When camping on battery power I use P10 mask and PR 560p machine.
Last edited by Rob K on Thu May 19, 2022 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Cpap for extended wilderness camping?

Post by Rob K » Fri Apr 29, 2022 8:01 pm

Ended up purchasing a Breas Z2 Auto from cpap.com after a month or so wait for them to get some in stock. I didn't realize until now that these are built here in the USA. I'm happy my purchase is employing people here in the country.

I fired it up today and it's not as noisy as I expected it to be. Even the chirping sound of the motor is not real loud. I wear ear plugs when sleeping and don't here the machine at all, just the sound of the air through the tube and mask. Of course my P10 mask is one of the quietest which helps a lot.

On the negative side. It has a display for changing settings which I like but to get any sort of feedback like an ahi number you have to use their app. So extremely annoying how we are forced to use our phones for everything. My insurance would have paid for an Air Mini but I hated that it needed a phone to operate so I bought the Z2 on my own out of network. Of course my phone won't connect to the Z2 after many attempts. I'll have to try and find some work around. Maybe I can get it to connect at some point, I'm not real hopeful though.

Will give the Z2 the first test run tonight and record power usage so that I can figure what size batteries I'll need to get.

I love that it's a little smaller and lighter than a pound of butter. :mrgreen:

Image

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Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
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Additional Comments: Resmed F10 Mask for colds. When camping on battery power I use P10 mask and PR 560p machine.

danthedad
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Re: Cpap for extended wilderness camping?

Post by danthedad » Sat Apr 30, 2022 9:38 pm

I've also been trying to build a CPAP kit for backpacking and based on previous forum posts, landed on the Z2.

I just got my new Z2 Auto CPAP this week and picked up a few other items on Amazon to complete the kit.

* This battery supports 3 Amp at 15 V: Anker 737 Power Bank
* This cable triggers the battery into outputting the needed 15V: JacobsParts 15V USB C Type-C PD Trigger

I fully charged the Anker battery and then connected the trigger cable to the battery. I measure 14.92 volts on the barrel jack output from the trigger cable so all looks good so far. I connected the Z2 and the screen comes on, I can navigate the menus and still looks good. The problem I'm having is that as soon as I hit go on the CPAP, the power cuts out from the battery. I have to remove the trigger cable for a bit and reconnect to the battery before the battery lights come back on.

Has anyone else had a similar problem with Anker or any other battery with this setup? It seem really straightforward so I don't know if the battery is bad, or the trigger cable, or something else. I tried both of the JacobsParts cables (it's a 2-pack).

I just ordered the Baseus 30000mAh Power Bank USB-C PD which I saw in another post on here since it's known to work for someone else.

Thanks in advance for any insights or ideas :idea: to troubleshoot. :)

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Rob K
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Re: Cpap for extended wilderness camping?

Post by Rob K » Sun May 01, 2022 5:30 pm

Awesome thanks for the input. Based on what I have read in the last couple months. Some power banks can be problematic when used with cpaps. litetrek on this forum had the same problems with his Anker 533. It was tough to get the system operating and it took a number of power ups and luck to get it to go. I've never owned or used a power bank so I'm learning as I go. I can't really offer sound advise on troubleshooting right now. I'm used to using 12v deep cycle lead acid batteries which are very reliable and non problematic. The world of lithium power banks sounds a little tedious but I'm going to give it a try.
Here's where I read about the Anker 533 problem:
viewtopic/t179963/Battery-solution-for- ... g&start=30


So I used the Z2 a couple nights at home. The first night was a little rough. Running at a pressure of 7cm it's definitely louder than my Resmed Vauto. I wake up a lot through the night but I felt like the sound of the air through the tube and mask was much louder than what I was used to and causing me to wake more easily. Definitely will be trying to find some work around to make it quieter in addition to the muffler. I did turn it down to 6cm for the second night and that was more tolerable. I can't see people using this machine at higher pressures. I don't know how one would sleep unless one could get used to the noise.

One thing that struck me as odd through the night was the lack of pressure changes in the apap mode. Both nights it stayed at the lowest pressure through the whole night. My Resmed Vauto ramps the pressure up and down a good number of times through the night usually between 10-14cm. Likely the Z2 doesn't react as quickly to breathing events. It probably lets a lot of them slip by without adjusting pressure or maybe is designed to be less sensitive. Maybe there is more pressure at the mask with the Z2 which is why it sounds louder and takes care of my apnea at lower pressure, not really sure. I don't have a way to measure the pressure at the mask but it feels pretty similar with the Vauto set to 10cm and the Z2 set to 6cm. Maybe it's the shorter hose that allows for more pressure at the mask, don't know, it's a mystery.


Power consumption:
My power meter measures kilowatt hours so not a real detailed measurement. Not enough decimal places in the display. In other words it measures in 10wh increments.
Night 1 it was set to 7cm for 6.25hours and it used somewhere between 20-30wh using the power adapter plugged into 120vac
Night 2 it was set for 6cm for 7.5hrs and it used somewhere between 20-30wh using the power adapter plugged into 120vac

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ N10 Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Resmed F10 Mask for colds. When camping on battery power I use P10 mask and PR 560p machine.