Cpap for extended wilderness camping?

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
Rob K
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Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:22 pm

Re: Cpap for extended wilderness camping?

Post by Rob K » Fri May 27, 2022 9:09 pm

That's a little less than I'm experiencing so far. Maybe yours wasn't fully charged because you were watching the percentage. Mine charged for two more hours after it got to 100%. Since we can't trust the displayed charge percentage the best way to know if it's done charging is to press the button on the side and check for the current to get to zero amps which means is not drawing anymore current from the charger and therefore is done charging. I'll run my bank some more tonight and see how far I get on the fourth night.

I went to the Eceen website and studied the specs on that 30w panel. Their information is pretty vague. They claim 19% efficiency which is not that great these days, low 20's is pretty common now for lightweight portable panels. They do not say anything about what type of solar cells they use. My guess is silicone type cells which work best with direct sunlight and not so good with clouds and such. Take a look at cigs type solar panels, I've read they will produce more energy in a day due to them being more efficient in low light conditions. The Powerfilm panels look pretty appealing also if it wasn't for the price. The Eceen also doesn't say anything about battery discharge protection. A lot of panels use a simple diode that only allows current flow in one direction. If the panel does not have discharge protection it will actually drain your battery when the panel is not charging.

I'm still studying solar panels so can't say for certain what the best choice will be.

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ N10 Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Resmed F10 Mask for colds. When camping on battery power I use P10 mask and PR 560p machine.

Rob K
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Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:22 pm

Re: Cpap for extended wilderness camping?

Post by Rob K » Sat May 28, 2022 9:32 pm

The final results are in for the Baseus. I ran my cpap while watching a movie one evening thinking the battery was nearly drained but it turned out it wasn't. The capacity percentage seems to not be accurate. I didn't want to run out in the middle of the night so I was going to finish it off while I was awake but that didn't pan out.

Zbreathe set to 1 for every night
Night 1: Cpap 7cm, 7:30time, 15.1v x 1.81ah = 27.3wh, 35% charge left
Night 2: Cpap 7cm, 7:31time, 15.1v x 1.83ah = 27.6wh, 6% charge left
Evening 3: Cpap 7cm, 2:46time, 15.1v x .66ah = 9.9wh, 0% charge left part way through
Night 3: Cpap 7cm, 7:20time, 15.1v x 1.61ah = 24.3wh, 0% charge left
Night 4: Cpap 7cm, 4:24time, 15.1v x .96ah = 14.5wh, Unit shut down (not sure if battery was completely drained or the bank just shut down)
Totals: 29:26time, 103.6wh
Battery capacity used: 103.6wh/114wh = 90.9%

So 29.5 hours run time on the Z2 and 104wh from the Baseus. That is right on par with what I read about in an independent test, they got 110wh running it at 5v for 96% of total battery capacity used. There was some loss converting to 15v so capacity and efficiency will decrease.

So the internal battery is likely 30,000mah. I have no idea why they rate it at 18000mah@3.8v = 68.4wh which seems like an awfully low rating, it could be the amount of capacity in the battery between 0% and 100% on their display. Like I said the battery took a charge for two more hours after the display said 100%. Also the Z2 ran for 13 more hours after the display started flashing 0%. 68.4wh is only 60% of the 114wh internal battery capacity so 18000mah(68.4wh) could be the usable battery capacity between their 0% to 100% display settings. That's my best guess, I really don't know.

So the good news for me is that I can get 3+ nights running at 7cm. So a recharge after 3 nights would be a good idea and leave a little charge left in the battery to prolong it's life.

Will be running the Renogy GP-14 72000mah starting tonight and see how long it goes.

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ N10 Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Resmed F10 Mask for colds. When camping on battery power I use P10 mask and PR 560p machine.
Last edited by Rob K on Sun Jun 12, 2022 4:19 pm, edited 5 times in total.

Rob K
Posts: 598
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:22 pm

Re: Cpap for extended wilderness camping?

Post by Rob K » Mon May 30, 2022 3:39 pm

Results for Renogy GP14 72000mah 266wh power bank. Using 15v trigger cable for the usb-c output. I'll update this post as I go.

Night 1: Cpap 7cm, Zbreathe1, 6:34time, 14.6v x 1.44ah = 21wh, 4 leds on in the morning(There are 4 leds to indicate state of charge)
Night 2: Cpap 7cm, Zbreathe1, 8:00time, 14.6v x 1.84ah = 26.9wh, 4 leds on in the morning
Night 3: Cpap 7cm, Zbreathe1, 8:41time, 14.6v x 1.92ah = 28wh, 3 leds on in the morning
Night 4: Cpap 7cm, Zbreathe1, 7:10time, 14.6v x 1.58ah = 23wh, 3 leds on in the morning
Night 5: Cpap 7cm, Zbreathe1, 8:06time, 14.6v x 1.76ah = 25.7wh, 2 leds on in the morning
Night 6: Cpap 7cm, Zbreathe1, 8:14time, 14.6v x 1.80ah = 26.3wh, 2 leds on in the morning
Night 7: Cpap 7cm, Zbreathe1, 8:24time, 14.6v x 1.84ah = 26.9wh, 2 leds on in the morning
Night 8: Cpap 7cm, Zbreathe1, 7:50time, 14.6v x 1.78ah = 25.9wh, 2 leds on in the morning
NIght 9: Cpap 7cm, Zbreathe1, 7:59time, 14.6v x 1.76ah = 25.7wh, 1 led on in the morning
Night 10: Cpap 7cm, Zbreathe1, 2:30time, 14.6 x .51ah = 7.5wh, 1 led flashing when Z2 shut down & usb-c output switched to 5v according to my usb meter
Totals: 9.25 nights, 73:28time, 16.23ah, 236.9wh
Battery capacity used: 236.9wh/266wh = 89% (This will decrease as the batteries age)

The state of charge leds don't seem very accurate. In theory 89% of the total battery capacity was used and 11% was not used. From what I've read to get the longest life you should not fully charge or discharge the battery. I'm alright with a somewhat reduced battery life so that I can get the maximum watthours. The bank will not be used a lot and by the time it goes bad I'll be wanting to upgrade to new technology and better batteries anyway.

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ N10 Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Resmed F10 Mask for colds. When camping on battery power I use P10 mask and PR 560p machine.
Last edited by Rob K on Tue Jun 07, 2022 9:58 am, edited 12 times in total.

glacierjay
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Joined: Sun May 01, 2022 9:04 am

Re: Cpap for extended wilderness camping?

Post by glacierjay » Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:34 am

RobK, thanks for posting preliminary results. A couple of questions:
  • Are you running the Z2 as CPAP rather than APAP? Do you know if this saves power? I see the Z2 reporting 7.5 or more when I wake so maybe I need to go CPAP 7 to reduce battery usage and increase hours of sleep.
  • What other settings affect power use in the Z2? Z-breath, Bluetooth, pressure relief, etc?
I'm in middle of my Renogy testing with 15V PD so I'm missing the most interesting part of the battery tests. Tried a few other batteries. Here's partial results:
Image

I need to re-do the Baseus test after I get through Renogy. I possibly didn't give Baseus a fair test as I found a frayed cable in my test setup. Will post final results when I get them.

Rob K
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Re: Cpap for extended wilderness camping?

Post by Rob K » Wed Jun 01, 2022 9:20 pm

If your machine is ramping up the speed and pressure above 7cm than you are using more power than me. That sounds like what is happening. I'm going to test at higher pressures down the line since 7cm is minimum for me. I'm getting some wake ups that I don't like and feel like I need a little more pressure, maybe 7.5cm or 8cm. I'll run 8cm if I can still get three nights out of the battery, if not I'll maybe live with how I feel at 7cm or 7.5cm. Preferably I'll use auto mode and let the machine decide what to do if I can still squeeze three nights out of the battery.

Auto mode on any machine will draw more power if it ramps up the motor speed and pressure when detecting breathing difficulties. If the machine doesn't detect breathing problems and doesn't ramp up the pressure ever, than it will use the same amount of power as cpap mode.

The beauty of auto mode is that the machine does what it needs to do to take care of your breathing problems. If you set it to cpap mode you are limiting the machine to a single pressure and which is possibly not high enough to take care of all your breathing events. You can set the single pressure to your minimum and live with the increased apnea events as long as it doesn't effect your sleep in a bad way. Or you can set the single pressure a little higher so it takes care of most of your breathing problems but at the same time you'll be using more power to run the motor at a higher speed and pressure.

In other words it's a trade off with any machine. If you want to maximize battery life you limit the pressure to the minimum that is acceptable to you. With minimum pressure and increased events do you feel ok in the morning or do you feel bad. Are you waking a bunch or sleeping decently.

I imagine those other things you asked about effect power usage but I don't know to what degree, I have not measured or tested them. Zbreathe is pressure relief or exhale relief, whatever you want to call it. You would think zbreathe exhale relief would decrease power usage because the motor speed slows down to decrease the pressure. I'm not sure that is valid though. It's possible that it could use more power to ramp the speed and pressure back up, maybe more than just running with zbreathe at minimum. That would be a test for the future.

I've been running zbreathe at setting of 1 so I don't have to listen to the whining at setting 2 and the chirping at setting 3.

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ N10 Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Resmed F10 Mask for colds. When camping on battery power I use P10 mask and PR 560p machine.
Last edited by Rob K on Sat Jun 04, 2022 8:36 am, edited 2 times in total.

Rob K
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Re: Cpap for extended wilderness camping?

Post by Rob K » Wed Jun 01, 2022 9:42 pm

I should mention that if you are set to auto mode and the machine ramps the pressure up and down as needed, than your power usage will vary every night depending on what your body needs. Every time you test the battery capacity your results will be different because your pressure needs were different each night.

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ N10 Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Resmed F10 Mask for colds. When camping on battery power I use P10 mask and PR 560p machine.

Rob K
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Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:22 pm

Re: Cpap for extended wilderness camping?

Post by Rob K » Tue Jun 07, 2022 9:53 am

Final results are in for the Renogy GP14 power bank. I kept all the results together several posts back. At 7cm I was able to get 9+ full nights using the usb-c output on the Renogy GP14 to run the Z2. I was able to use 89% of the total battery capacity before things shut down. Ideally you wouldn't completely charge or discharge the battery for the longest life. I won't be using the battery a lot so it should last for quite a few years even with fully charging the bank until it stops drawing current and discharging to 11%.

Next I'll do another run with the Baseus at a higher pressure.

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ N10 Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Resmed F10 Mask for colds. When camping on battery power I use P10 mask and PR 560p machine.

AZdreamer
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Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2022 8:54 pm

Re: Cpap for extended wilderness camping?

Post by AZdreamer » Tue Jun 07, 2022 10:06 am

Rob K, nine nights on the Renogy is impressive! My pressure is set at 12 on the Z2 so I imagine I would get somewhat less endurance but I would be happy to get several days from a battery that is less than 3lbs. Thanks for sharing.

glacierjay
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Joined: Sun May 01, 2022 9:04 am

Re: Cpap for extended wilderness camping?

Post by glacierjay » Tue Jun 07, 2022 12:34 pm

My results trying the Renogy GP-14 battery pack. Z2 Apap 7-9, zbreathe 2, Jacobparts 15V trigger cable:
Image
Not as many nights as at 12 volts, possibly there are things I can optimize to get another night or two out of the battery.

Snow is melting in the mountains. It's time to start packpacking and try this in the field instead of in bed.

Rob K
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Re: Cpap for extended wilderness camping?

Post by Rob K » Tue Jun 07, 2022 7:28 pm

AZdreamer wrote:
Tue Jun 07, 2022 10:06 am
Rob K, nine nights on the Renogy is impressive! My pressure is set at 12 on the Z2 so I imagine I would get somewhat less endurance but I would be happy to get several days from a battery that is less than 3lbs. Thanks for sharing.
It was pretty large investment but I went from an old Phillips machine and 100lbs of deep cycle agm batteries to get me through two weeks to the Breas Z2 Auto with the three batteries totaling around 5-6 pounds. I'm pumped literally and figuratively. :mrgreen:

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ N10 Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Resmed F10 Mask for colds. When camping on battery power I use P10 mask and PR 560p machine.
Last edited by Rob K on Tue Jun 07, 2022 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Rob K
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Re: Cpap for extended wilderness camping?

Post by Rob K » Tue Jun 07, 2022 7:34 pm

Thanks for the results Glacierjay. Our results are looking pretty similar. I likely got one more night because my pressure was Cpap 7cm and yours was a little higher pressure running auto mode. I just changed my pressure to Apap 7-9cm, this would be my preferred setting. Will run the Baseus again for the next few nights and see if the pressure ramps up at all and see if I can still squeeze 3 nights out of it. I'm headed out sometime this month also to test in the field. Will see how the cool temperatures at night change things, hopefully not to much.

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ N10 Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Resmed F10 Mask for colds. When camping on battery power I use P10 mask and PR 560p machine.

Rob K
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Re: Cpap for extended wilderness camping?

Post by Rob K » Sun Jun 12, 2022 4:16 pm

Another set of results for the Baseus 30000. I don't think the Z2 ramped up the pressure at all and stayed at 7cm all night. Not certain because the HDM Data Viewer software is terrible and the instructions are worse. The Z2 ran a little longer this time around, probably because my apnea was a little less problematic and the machine didn't have to work against a blocked airway as much, that's my theory.

Night 1: Apap7-9cm, Zbreathe1, 7:30time, 15.1v x 1.64ah = 24.8wh, 29% battery left
Night 2: Apap7-9cm, Zbreathe1, 7:59time, 15.1v x 1.75ah = 26.4wh, 2% battery left
Night 3: Apap7-9cm, Zbreathe1, 7:06time, 15.1v x 1.55ah = 23.4wh, 0% battery left
Night 4: Apap7-9cm, Zbreathe1, 7:16time, 15.1v x 1.60ah = 24.2wh, 0% battery left
Night 5: Apap7-9cm, Zbreathe1, 1:33time, 15.1v x .34ah = 5.1wh, bank shut down
Total: 4+ short nights, 31hrs 24min, 103.9wh
Battery capacity used: 103.9wh/114wh = 91.1%

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ N10 Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Resmed F10 Mask for colds. When camping on battery power I use P10 mask and PR 560p machine.

tommu56
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Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2022 12:41 pm

Re: Cpap for extended wilderness camping?

Post by tommu56 » Wed Jun 15, 2022 1:10 pm

Rob K wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 2:39 pm
I've been using my Phillips cpap which runs off of 12v directly. It has worked just fine for car camping for quite a few years. I'm getting tired of hauling large deep cycle lead acid batteries around which can only be discharged to around 50% for longevity. I'm driving in and camping in the wilderness for up to two weeks at at time and not in electrified campgrounds. That's a lot of battery power, weight and space taken up in my vehicle. Also would love to do some kayak camping. Looking to upgrade to a compact lightweight system that will run for weeks at a time or indefinitely.

It appears there are 4 options right now for machines. Breas Z2, Airmini, Transcend, Dreamstation Go. Unfortunately I don't think any of these work with the Oscar software that we use here a lot on the forum. Out of these a Z2 Auto seems to make the most sense. Small, light and relatively quite. Has a display so no phone is needed. Can be operated as a stand alone device. Can use any mask with the unit.

Does the Z2 Auto make the most sense to purchase? Are there other options on the market that I have missed. Someone really needs to step up and build a unit for extended time off grid in the wilderness.

For camping I would set the machine for minimum therapy at 8cm and cpap mode for longest run time. Anyone know how much battery power a Z2 Auto uses for 8hrs at 8cm or a setting close to that?

For batteries, obviously lithium ion is going to be the lightest. Follow by Lithium iron phosphate batteries. These bridge the gap between lithium ion and lead acid batteries. These fall in the middle with weight, durability, safety and price. Will be getting lithium ions though.

Sounds like the Z2 requires 14-15vdc. Wish they would have made it 12vdc so you can easily use any battery in an emergency. Thinking of getting two batteries of the same capacity. Wondering if a 3 night battery would be sufficient. One can be used for several days while the other is left out to be charged by a solar panel. Obviously things will need to be waterproof because I won't be in camp watching for rain and waiting for batteries to charge.

Then I would need to figure out a solar panel. Probably one of the waterproof, lightweight, roll up or fold up variety. These are less efficient but much more convenient for transport. I'm guessing around 20-50w range depending on battery size and amount of time needed for charging.

Any insight would be appreciated.

Im new to the board but have had a S9 for about 10 years got a Z1 about 3 years ago for travel i use an power add pilot pro 32000 (this is a laptop charger battery that you can set output volts) that I have been using all this time to run cpcp my settings are 12 the battery when new would last 3 nights now it lasts one.

I'm complanting building a adaptor to run my Z1 on Milwaukee M18 tool battery im still in the design stages for this but parts are coming from amazon in the next week.

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Rob K
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Re: Cpap for extended wilderness camping?

Post by Rob K » Thu Jun 16, 2022 8:45 pm

Another run on the Baseus 30000. I suspect the pressure did not ramp up and stayed at 8cm.

Night 1: Apap8-10cm, Zbreathe1, 8:21time, 15.2v x 2.05ah = 31.2wh, 40% displayed charge
Night 2: Apap8-10cm, Zbreathe1, 8:35time, 15.2v x 2.12ah = 32.2wh, 11% displayed charge
Night 3: Apap8-10cm, Zbreathe1, 8:27time, 15.2v x 2.08ah = 31.6wh, 0% flashing on display
Night 4: Apap8-10cm, Zbreathe1, 2:45time, 15.1v x .71 ah = 10.7wh, bank shut down
Total: 3+ nights, 28:08 hours, 105.7wh
Battery capacity used 105.7/114 = 92.7%

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ N10 Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Resmed F10 Mask for colds. When camping on battery power I use P10 mask and PR 560p machine.

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AndyB
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Location: SE Wisconsin

Re: Cpap for extended wilderness camping?

Post by AndyB » Sat Jun 18, 2022 3:56 pm

Not really "extended wilderness camping", but for what it's worth I used a ResMed Air10 DC/DC Converter 90W (model 37003, product #37297) and a Jackery Explorer 160 portable power station to power a ResMed AirSense 10 Autoset during a 4-day/3 night off-the-grid car camping trip. This setup worked perfectly, with one capacity caveat noted below.

Jackery's website states that the Explorer 160 should not be used to power CPAP machines, instead recommending a significantly larger and more expensive model. However, I needed to be able to take the power station on a U.S. commercial airline flight, and the Explorer 160 is the maximum lithium battery WH size allowed on board by the FAA.

I found the Explorer 160 had plenty of juice for 2 full nights (approx. 7 hrs per night), with 20% capacity remaining after the second night. I was able to recharge the battery after the second night back to 45% capacity from a car's 12V cigarette lighter with the vehicle idling for an hour. That gave me enough juice for 7-1/2 hrs the 3rd night, with 5% capacity remaining.

I used the Explorer 160's 12V DC output to power the ResMed converter, which in turn delivered 24V DC to the ResMed AirSense 10 Autoset's input. To minimize power usage, I turned humidification and temperature off. The Autoset operated in APAP mode, with pressure settings of 8.0 min to 16.0 max and EPR 2 full time. Average pressure (IPAP) for the 3 nights was 11.02 (average EPAP = 9.02). As far as I could tell, the therapy provided by this setup seemed identical to the therapy I receive using normal AC power.

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: DreamWear Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Started therapy June 2015