CPAPtalk.com

dataq1 wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 06, 2022 10:25 am

@ all above:
Does anyone here have medical credentials? Anyone at all?
Or, as having been suggested above, the disparaging remarks of medical professionals (or other contributors) be understood as rantings of malcontents?
Or, as someone else recently said, "a social media" outlet?

There is nothing at all problematic with a contributor sharing their own experiences, and what worked (or not) for them. But expanding their personal experience as a medical diagnosis, and or advice or direction to others is of questionable helpfulness.

So.... Any medical professionals (credentialed) here?

I don't know about credentials, but I watch a lot of medical programs on TV...does that count?

RobertS975 wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 06, 2022 6:41 pm

I don't always agree with some of the criticism leveled at the medical infrastructure, but much of it is justified frustration.

Well stated, and I can understand that frustration can lead criticism and rage, but as I said at the outset, it's the broad generalizations about medical professionals indifference and disregard towards CPAP patients that is particularly problematic ("they just don't care").
To apply someone else's terms "stereotyping" the entire specialty does more harm by subtly suggesting that patients ought to disregard the counsel of the trained professionals.

RobertS975 wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 06, 2022 6:41 pm

I have been able to tell the physician and his N.P.s many of the tricks that I have learned on this board.

Certainly a good thing to share insights that come up on this board. But despite the reaction of some of the above commentors attempts to reframe the question, or misconstrue my concern, my issue was the qualification of contributors generally undermining sleep specialists. My concern was not validity of therapy advice offered here, something that I have no credentials to do, regardless of 20+ years of personal experience in CPAP.

LSAT wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 06, 2022 8:44 pm

I don't know about credentials, but I watch a lot of medical programs on TV...does that count?

Only if you also stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night

amenite wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 06, 2022 9:59 pm

Only if you also stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night

https://youtu.be/8dOHEw8izno

dataq1 wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 06, 2022 8:56 pm

RobertS975 wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 06, 2022 6:41 pm

I don't always agree with some of the criticism leveled at the medical infrastructure, but much of it is justified frustration.

Well stated, and I can understand that frustration can lead criticism and rage, but as I said at the outset, it's the broad generalizations about medical professionals indifference and disregard towards CPAP patients that is particularly problematic ("they just don't care").
To apply someone else's terms "stereotyping" the entire specialty does more harm by subtly suggesting that patients ought to disregard the counsel of the trained professionals.

RobertS975 wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 06, 2022 6:41 pm

I have been able to tell the physician and his N.P.s many of the tricks that I have learned on this board.

Certainly a good thing to share insights that come up on this board. But despite the reaction of some of the above commentors attempts to reframe the question, or misconstrue my concern, my issue was the qualification of contributors generally undermining sleep specialists. My concern was not validity of therapy advice offered here, something that I have no credentials to do, regardless of 20+ years of personal experience in CPAP.

Dude its not just sleep specialists. Have you completely missed the anti faucci stuff all over the place ? That's what freedom looks like. We get to question the "so called" experts. What you want is censorship. You won't find that here.

dataq1 wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 06, 2022 8:56 pm

To apply someone else's terms "stereotyping" the entire specialty does more harm by subtly suggesting that patients ought to disregard the counsel of the trained professionals.

Now you're stereotyping.

Do you think just because I read a comment by some unknown screen name on an internet forum that

"they just don't care"

I would believe it?

Like the 2 dozen phone calls I get everyday from the SSA, IRS, solar heating people, grandchildren in jail, Amazon saying I just bought an iPhone 24 for $1800 and credit card people who are going to write my entire debt off?

It's pretty simple. If you don't like this board, go find one that you do. Bye.

Morbius wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 07, 2022 4:59 am

Do you think just because I read a comment by some unknown screen name on an internet forum that
"they [medical professionals] just don't care"
I would believe it?

Fair point about some unknown screen name. OTOH, if the screen name is well known and has posted here in excess of 25,000 times, and claims that to have helped hundreds of CPaP users over the past ten years here,..... well that is someone that a newbie might pay attention to.

The question is not can he express his personal opinion, but rather does the screen name have some qualification or credential that would warrant readers to take his opinion seriously and act on it by disregarding the counsel of their sleep specialists.

dataq1 wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 07, 2022 2:08 pm

Fair point about some unknown screen name. OTOH, if the screen name is well known and has posted here in excess of 25,000 times, and claims that to have helped hundreds of CPaP users over the past ten years here,..... well that is someone that a newbie might pay attention to.

The question is not can he express his personal opinion, but rather does the screen name have some qualification or credential that would warrant readers to take his opinion seriously and act on it by disregarding the counsel of their sleep specialists.

I think you're getting obsessed with this, but OK...

What are some examples of this "anonymous" person's opinion that require us to call Homeland Security and get some Agent Orange?

Or was it Level Orange. I forget...

Deborah K. wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 07, 2022 1:40 pm

It's pretty simple. If you don't like this board, go find one that you do. Bye.

We should all be so lucky.

Deborah K. wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 07, 2022 1:40 pm

It's pretty simple. If you don't like this board, go find one that you do. Bye.

Where did you get notion that I disliked this forum? I don’t think I’ve written anything derogatory about this forum.

Been here for 15+ years, probably not going anywhere.

dataq1 wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 07, 2022 7:10 pm

Deborah K. wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 07, 2022 1:40 pm

It's pretty simple. If you don't like this board, go find one that you do. Bye.

Where did you get notion that I disliked this forum? I don’t think I’ve written anything derogatory about this forum.

Been here for 15+ years, probably not going anywhere.

Now, if only you'd go back to not posting, like you'd blessedly done for the past 8 years.

I was filling out a medical history recently, and I was astonished by the amount of medical care I have consumed over the course of the last 68 years, especially considering that I feel pretty healthy. I have been attended by urologists, neurologists, otolaryngologists, ophthalmologists (enough times that I can spell it on the first try), internists, allergists, audiologists, podiatrists, dermatologists, cardiologists, phlebotomists, radiologists, gastroenterologists, oncologists, and several kinds of surgeon. Some experiences were better than others, but on the whole, I have almost always been satisfied with the care I received and felt like I was treated with skill, professionalism, and respect. I know not everyone is so lucky -- I used to be a medical malpractice lawyer -- but the healthcare system has served me well and been pretty nice about it. In all this time, it is only the sleep medicine industry that made me feel like a cog in a machine built to tick the necessary boxes required to move merchandise and obtain third-party payment with a minimum of effort. There must be people who receive wise, individualized advice and treatment, and I actually received some when I was first diagnosed long ago, but in recent years I can't remember any friend or relative relating that kind of happy experience. Delay and unresponsiveness seem like the rule rather than the exception, and those who have told me about bad experiences include not only people like my brother, who are suspicious and cynical about all healthcare providers, but also sophisticated patients with doctors in their families, people who are skillful and experienced in navigating the healthcare system. Sleep medicine and DMEs manage to frustrate them as well. It seems to me that the original poster's issue was not so much whether we have in this forum expertise enough to justify giving one another advice, which of course we do, but whether it is sufficient to justify the disparaging remarks we make from time to time about the providers. To me, that is not an issue of credentials or medical knowledge; patients are the experts in being patients. Rather, it is the lived experience of many of us to feel that we are treated with short shrift by our providers, and it is a helpful form of reality check to learn that we are not alone. We learn this from others who have been through the same mill. It is as patients, not experts, that we conclude that we have no choice but to help ourselves and help each other.

dataq1 wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 05, 2022 11:40 pm

What are the qualifications for contributors on this forum to be dispensing advice or counsel to users?

I've noticed (in other forum threads) that some contributors speak derisively of medical professionals, Cpap equipment manufacturers, DMEs, and licensed therapists.
I can understand a forum contributor sharing their own anecdotal experiences, but to broadly generalize is something else and ought be accompanied by some assertion of competency or training.

To be clear, I'm referring to statements like:
5AHI threshold: it's 'good enough' for medical people, who don't care about your health anyway.

Sleep docs and techs: "they simply don't care".

What are the qualifications for contributors on this forum to be dispensing advice or counsel to users?

What would be useful to forum readers is if contributors would clearly indicate what is opinion versus what is fact.

Hi Dataq1,
I responded to the 5AHI thread. I backed up what I said with a reference to a research study, done by medical professionals.
I’m not a medical professional. My opinion, based on my own body’s experience, is that <5 AHI is inadequate as an indicator of “treated” and that opinion has come out in what I say here and to my doctor. My doctor said I was treated, my body said not! My doctor said something about how many hundreds of patients needed attention… I don’t say “the doctor didn’t care”, instead I say my health needs me to be taking the lead, because the doctors don’t have time for taking the lead with me. The doctor named the 5AHI (plus excursions above that, in my case up to 11.75AHI) as the triage cut off point. For my previous doctor’s office of my starting time on CPAP, who didn’t specify full-data machines on prescriptions in 2010 (but I got one due to this and other forums opinions), I was praised for using my CPAP every night for 7-8 hours. Different triage threshold. I would not have met that threshold if I hadn’t had opinions here on masks, tweaking sleep hygiene, etc. to keep me going. YMMV.

The forum does have time for me. I find out so many good tips here, and then message my sleep doctor. I try to pay it forward by answering a question now and then, and I think I’m able to give a useful opinion without claiming any certification or degree (just another experienced user). Most recently this and another forum have been more than helpful, essential even, to deal with a disruption in my CPAP treatment that my doctor’s office hadn’t seemed to hear about before (Palatal Prolapse). I was glad for any opinions here, as I wasn’t getting the medical advice needed. I didn’t think to ask any online if they were medical professionals, as I figure we’re all posting here as patients.

-SleepyCPAP (whose facts are maybe only true for my own experience)