zonker therapy thread redux: in the arms of morpheus

[GrumpyHere]

maybe i could throw an anchor over the head of the bed?

Not quite an anchor, but a scheme that I never got around trying:

1. Take a bed sheet and fold over one end to form a pocket
2. Sewing ensues
3. Insert pillows into the pocket
4. Place the contraption on the bed and adjust so the pillows is between the knee and the buttocks
5. Tuck the other end under the mattress so the weight provides the anchoring
6. Sleep
7. Profit ???

[zonker]

I can't imagine not sliding onto the floor at least once a night--unless:
Corduroy pajamas, with matching bottom sheet, all cut cross-grain.
Of course, the stripes on your birthday suit will run sideways, too.

this sounds like a scheme to produce static electricity.

[zonker]

maybe i could throw an anchor over the head of the bed?

Not quite an anchor, but a scheme that I never got around trying:

1. Take a bed sheet and fold over one end to form a pocket
2. Sewing ensues
3. Insert pillows into the pocket
4. Place the contraption on the bed and adjust so the pillows is between the knee and the buttocks
5. Tuck the other end under the mattress so the weight provides the anchoring
6. Sleep
7. Profit ???

erm, i believe you lost me at step two.

[palerider]

For those with shoulder problems, this is what i used while recovering from a serious shoulder injury. Without it sleep was a big issue as I could not comfortably sleep on either side.

No Z, it’s not cheap, but it did make a big difference for me while recovering. Something to consider.

https://medcline.com/

hmmm....certainly ain't cheap. but it's something for me to think about.

besides, the man in the picture sure looks happy!

I was scrolling through it and glimpsed something just as I closed the tab, and thought, briefly, that it'd said "Baked by science", and "what? 350 for 2 hours?" flitted though my mind in the moment before I reopened the tab and looked.

[zonker]

I was scrolling through it and glimpsed something just as I closed the tab, and thought, briefly, that it'd said "Baked by science", and "what? 350 for 2 hours?" flitted though my mind in the moment before I reopened the tab and looked.

the science is baked right in!

plus it has that delightful cinnamon smell.

[zonker]

it's been a minute, kids. and nothing from yours truly. that's because there isn't much to report.

my ahi continues to NOT be a problem, by any stretch of the imagination. oh pugsy's aliens came over one night to bestow a bit of obstructive apnea, taking me to 1.44. i don't even know if it was real. things calmed down after that and the aliens haven't revisited.

of course, it's the comfort front i'm more concerned about. remember, i'm working on trying to reduce and maybe even eliminate my fractured sleep. alas, there doesn't seem to be any sort of switch that i can turn to make that happen.

i do seem to be getting longer periods of my "first sleep". that is, i'm sleeping longer before i initially wake up. i used to wake up almost spot on 3:30 am after lights out at 11 pm. now that can stretch until 5:30 am. that's a huge step in the right direction for sure. but it's in no way consistent.

i've been keeping a journal. but i think i may have to start taking more comprehensive notes. maybe start taking down what i ate the day of my sleep. how much coffee? how much wine? and so forth. i like to think i do a fairly decent job of sleep hygiene. however, i imagine i'd be quite surprised to see the correlation.

anyway, i press on.

excelsior!

[Miss Emerita]

That’s real progress! I hope before long you’ll sleep all the way through the night.

Yes, journal-keeping. The trick must be to pick the right variables to track. I’ll be curious how it goes.

[chunkyfrog]

Parachute harness!
Put that on, and one could sleep on the Minbari "beds" on Babylon 5.

[zonker]

That’s real progress! I hope before long you’ll sleep all the way through the night.

Yes, journal-keeping. The trick must be to pick the right variables to track. I’ll be curious how it goes.

thanks for the encouragement!

[zonker]

Parachute harness!
Put that on, and one could sleep on the Minbari "beds" on Babylon 5.

sorry not a fan, so that went right over my head.

[chunkyfrog]

Google an image--they look like sloping rocks.

[zonker]

got some questions about therapy and now that i'm getting my rainout/humidity issues under control, i thought i'd come back here to see what help you guys could offer. of course, i'm doing this on a friday night when you guys are all out partying! woo-hoo!!

i did a bit of google searching the forum about this before starting to ask, but not getting a large amount of hits. simply, it's osa and rem. this seems to be more pronounced in vauto than it was in apap, though that could just be my perception. but i've just looked back through oscar and i certainly seem to be getting them so far this month, at least.

pugsy had mentioned in my "thin line" thread that the osa clusters i was seeing certainly seemed to be rem sleep related as they came at the right time in the sleep cycle. that is, i go to bed at 11pm and these clusters tend to show up at around 12:45 am. these don't occur each and every night. some nights, i sail past that time and will get a cluster later. some very few nights, no obstructive clusters at all.

now from what i've read on the forum, pugsy has these too. and i think the only way to defeat them is by raising my pressure. if so, i'm put in a position of using higher pressure throughout the night against the chance that i'll need it for rem sleep.

does that all sound right so far? or is there something i'm missing?

let me know if you want to look at some charts.

[Pugsy]

So.....about how many nights out of the last couple of weeks have you seen any sort of clustering that we would assume is related to REM?
Just how many happen to be in a cluster?
Do you wake up that you know of from the clustering?
Is it usually just one cluster a night or multiple clusters....when you have a cluster?

Do you know if your sleep study happened to mention the number of events in REM? Did it offer a REM AHI?

I am making an educated guess as to your clusters being REM related....I have no proof.
For me in my sleep study it was documented that REM was bad for me...53 per hour in REM....and about 12 per hour in non REM. I have also done some extensive sleep position experimenting to see how much sleeping supine might affect any clustering I might have but it doesn't seem like it does.
FWIW....it seems like if I am going to have any clustering it is almost always with the first REM of the night. I used to call it my witching hour. Either a little cluster could be seen or when no clustering is seen I can usually tell by the rather marked increase in pressure as I cycle through the night and the other probable REM stages.

It is of course entirely possible with you that maybe supine and REM combined is when it might be worse.

Post your worse looking detailed report that you have where there is some clusters. Pick the ugliest one.
Let's see just how bad it might be.

FWIW....I rarely see much in the way of clusters now and I have actually reduced my pressure a bit....lost a little weight and went from Respironics to ResMed. When I do see a cluster now....I just shrug my shoulders and move on.

[zonker]

So.....about how many nights out of the last couple of weeks have you seen any sort of clustering that we would assume is related to REM?

for all of april, 7 occurred in the time frame i mentioned. one was a cluster much later around 5 i think.

Just how many happen to be in a cluster?

the rest can happen individually.

Do you wake up that you know of from the clustering?

no not that i'm aware of.

Is it usually just one cluster a night or multiple clusters....when you have a cluster?

four have been multiple, three have been single at the "witching hour" and one was the 5 am one mentioned above.

Do you know if your sleep study happened to mention the number of events in REM? Did it offer a REM AHI?

the only copy of my sleep study is at cpap.com. i have a request in to see it. (apparently, due to privacy issues.) i don't remember much of anything about my sleep study. will report when i find out.

Post your worse looking detailed report that you have where there is some clusters. Pick the ugliest one.
Let's see just how bad it might be.

here tis-

[Pugsy]

So about 8 nights you saw some clusters ....out of about 21 nights.
Roughly 40% of the nights...and about half were just one cluster.

If you want to try to better prevent the clusters (from whatever the cause) you will need a little more minimum EPAP.
I don't think you will need a whole lot though.
And remember if these are REM clusters you probably are having 3 to 5 REM cycles each night but you are only having the clusters for some of the night and only some of the nights.
Does make me wonder why you aren't seeing a cluster with each REM cycle or at least each night.
Sleep position could also maybe playing a part....supine or chin tuck or something.

Minimum EPAP is what you want to play with. Since the machine won't due halves....I suggest 0.6 more EPAP minimum.
Since you aren't having clusters every night you need to probably keep the setting change for at least a week. Give yourself a chance to have one of those random nights where the clusters happen.