Philips corporate ploy

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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Pugsy
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Re: Philips corporate ploy

Post by Pugsy » Sun Oct 24, 2021 3:38 pm

jas32 wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:05 pm
Just trying to understand the situation. Is ResMed that much better in providing therapy? Are they computing their AHI differently? Or it's one of those things not worth fuzzing about?
Again....what is your metric for "better in providing therapy".....Is it just AHI? I know it is the primary metric used by a lot of people but that doesn't make it correct. People really need to learn to look at the big picture and not a tiny corner of the picture. AHI of 0.0 doesn't guarantee squat in terms of therapy or sleep or how we feel if all we look at is AHI.

AHI numbers are all computed the same way....Events divided by hours. Pretty simple. No matter which brand.
Now there is a very minor difference in flagging criteria between ResMed and Respironics for a hyponea flag but it is so minor it really doesn't impact the numbers. Otherwise criteria is the same for the other event flags.

Now the 2 brands do have different auto adjusting algorithms though and thus they do go about doing their jobs a bit differently in terms of response. This is where the difference in results in AHI likely shows up. People compare both brands at same pressure settings and they end up thinking one is "better". Can't really expect to use same settings on both machines and getting same results when there are 2 totally different auto adjusting algorithms at work.

I have used both brands in auto adjusting mode. I got the same AHI with BOTH brands but I did have to use a higher minimum pressure to get it done on the Respironics machine. People CAN get nice low AHI numbers with a Respironics machine if all they want is an AHI number to brag about but they have to understand the different algorithms and make adjustments to get it done.
Or it's one of those things not worth fuzzing about?
I guess it all depends on a person's thinking. Me....I don't "fuzz" about stuff that I can't do anything about anyway. Waste of precious energy (brain cells) IMHO to worry about stuff I don't stand a snowball's chance in hell of doing anything about.
I don't put all my eggs in the AHI basket either. AHI is one metric...not the ONLY metric we use to evaluate therapy.

By your own admission your AHI is reduced but you don't feel that your sleep quality itself has improved.....
so better numbers doesn't mean "better therapy" IMHO.
Better therapy is when we actually feel the improved numbers. IMHO
If I were in your shoes and not feeling the improvement in my sleep quality that I wanted or expected.....I would start doing a lot more detective work as to what else might be going on and quit using the AHI as the metric. It is often a misleading metric.

My most awesome miracle day after starting cpap came about 6 months into cpap therapy back in 2009. Respironics M Series APAP in auto mode. OMG it was a miracle. I felt like superwoman all day long. Imagine my surprise when I looked at the software reports that evening and saw the AHI was 10.4....WTH...yep...10.4. I thought for sure I just had to have had a 0.0 AHI night. I can tell you right now that I would gladly take AHI of 10.4 every night of the week right now if I could duplicate that OMG miracle. AHI be damned....I want to sleep good and feel rested and have tons of energy the next day....that is "better therapy" for me. :lol:

It's okay to use AHI as a metric.....just don't go making it the only metric used because there is so much more to feeling the good numbers than just getting them. Getting them is the easy part....feeling them is the difficult part so we have to understand the limitations of what "numbers" alone mean.

AHI of 0.0....nice metric to brag about and pat yourself on the back when you get it but it doesn't guarantee anything without a lot of other stuff falling into place to go along with it.
Doesn't matter what brand machine in that regard.

And yes...I do think ResMed is a "better" machine overall...that's why I use the brand but the reason I feel that way has absolutely nothing to do with just the AHI it might deliver.
My AHI last night.....0.6....and today I feel like total dog crap. Has absolutely nothing to do with my sleep apnea therapy though and everything to do with the amount of sleep I didn't get last night along with some other health issues that mess with my sleep quality that the cpap machine can't do a damn thing about no matter how much I wish it could/would.

When we put all our eggs in the AHI basket all by itself and won't/don't look at other factors that mess with sleep or how we feel........unrealistic expectations and a good way to find all the eggs cracked.

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jas32
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Location: SE Michigan

Re: Philips corporate ploy

Post by jas32 » Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:53 pm

Wow! Thanks for your insight. I really appreciate the education. I'm quite happy with my present CPAP therapy. I just came across the AHI "discrepancy" when I started using a ResMed for the first time. Being an old engineer it did not make sense to have a significant (3X) difference in AHI numbers between 2 machines trying to do the same thing, and was just curious for a reasonable explanation from the experts.

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jeresoph
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Re: Philips corporate ploy

Post by jeresoph » Mon Oct 25, 2021 8:27 pm

Couldn’t agree more with Pugsy, as always.
Since I’ve switched from Respironics to Resmed my sleep has improved noticeably. And I could sim0ly draw a conclusion that one machine is better than the other. But, but, but…..I have started an intermittent fast via the ‘Zero’ app. This involves finishing my dinner at least 3 hours before I go to bed, eating less generally and probably out of an over abundance of enthusiasm drinking one less glass of wine at night. And now I find (duh!) that the quality of my sleep is way better. Maybe the machine helps but 10 to 1 my lifestyle changes are the driving force. Now the challenge is to keep up this less indulgent lifestyle.
In some ways it’s like relying on your blood pressure medication to justify eating whatever you want when in truth there’s a lot that goes into a good night’s sleep. Once you taste the benefits of a really rejuvenating night’s sleep you understand that a little sacrifice goes a long way. But I do miss that extra glass of Chenin.