Can CPAP cause tongue sores?

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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GuanYu201
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Can CPAP cause tongue sores?

Post by GuanYu201 » Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:35 pm

I have been using a Resmed Airsense 10 with the Dreamwear Nasal CPAP mask and headgear, without nasal pillows. It works well and all has been going fine except I have been waking up at least once a month with very painful canker sores on my left side of the tongue or just a sore left side of the tongue. I have found that these sores don't fully heal until about 2 weeks have passed, but once they are gone, 2-3 days later I have another one! Same place, same pain. My theory is that the CPAP is causing so much suction, and my jaw is partially open, that my left side of the tongue gets partially sucked between my upper and lower teeth. Then, at some point I bite down, just enough to pinch the tongue, for several minutes or hours while sleeping. Then when I wake up, I'm stuck with a sore left side of the tongue. Have any of you heard of this condition? I checked the forum and I found some talk about mouth sores, but I think it was related to extreme dryness of the mouth after using CPAP. I have had that, but not lately and it's rare. I plan on asking my doctor to refer me to an oral specialist so that I can find out more about why I get these sores. There does appear to be bite marks on the left side of my tongue, but I asked my dentist about it and he said that everyone has these imprints of their teeth on their tongue and that they weren't bite marks. By the way, there is no bleeding or swelling, so that is why I think the suction/pressure theory is more likely than biting my tongue during the night.

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LSAT
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Re: Can CPAP cause tongue sores?

Post by LSAT » Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:06 pm

CPAP is not creating suction...It is blowing Continuous Positive Air Pressure.
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GuanYu201
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Re: Can CPAP cause tongue sores?

Post by GuanYu201 » Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:28 pm

Ok, so it's not suction...is there another way that CPAP can cause tongue sores? Like positive pressure that causes one to bite on the tongue? Or pressure on the jaw that is so tight that the tongue is pinched between the upper and lower jaw? Also, what about in the open airway situation: where air from the CPAP goes in the mouth and then out the nose? Wouldn't that cause a suction on the mouth?

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Pugsy
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Re: Can CPAP cause tongue sores?

Post by Pugsy » Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:34 pm

No....No... No and No.
CPAP usage isn't the cause.

Look elsewhere.
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GuanYu201
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Re: Can CPAP cause tongue sores?

Post by GuanYu201 » Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:41 pm

Ok...ok....ok and ok, thanks Pugsy. I am going to see an oral specialist and if I find out it's CPAP related, I'll post it for others.

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ChicagoGranny
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Re: Can CPAP cause tongue sores?

Post by ChicagoGranny » Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:54 pm

GuanYu201 wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:28 pm
Ok, so it's not suction...is there another way that CPAP can cause tongue sores? Like positive pressure that causes one to bite on the tongue? Or pressure on the jaw that is so tight that the tongue is pinched between the upper and lower jaw? Also, what about in the open airway situation: where air from the CPAP goes in the mouth and then out the nose? Wouldn't that cause a suction on the mouth?
No, CPAP doesn't cause canker sores. How tight is your headgear? Is the mask adjusted so tightly that it is causing you to bite your tongue at times? CPAP masks are not designed to be worn tightly adjusted. Look at some videos for your mask model on youtube. Watch three or four videos on adjusting your mask model.

Some people, like me, have an immune system that overreacts to injury in the gums or tongue. You want to prevent these injuries, but when one does happen there is a treatment. For decades, I have used triamcinolone dental paste ( https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/d ... ntal-paste ) to treat the occasional canker sore. It's a corticosteroid that "calms" down the immune response. It will heal the sore quickly if applied promptly and properly. For cost savings, make sure your doctor or dentist writes the script for generic.

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GuanYu201
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Re: Can CPAP cause tongue sores?

Post by GuanYu201 » Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:02 pm

Thank you ChicagoGranny. I think you are right...I need to use a better dental paste. After more research into tongue sores, I also agree with Pugsy that it can't be due to the CPAP equipment or the machine. It must be something else. I'll post something after I see the oral specialist. But in the meantime I will try a triamcinolone dental paste.

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ChicagoGranny
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Re: Can CPAP cause tongue sores?

Post by ChicagoGranny » Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:28 pm

GuanYu201 wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:02 pm
But in the meantime I will try a triamcinolone dental paste.
In the US, a prescription is needed.

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Re: Can CPAP cause tongue sores?

Post by chunkyfrog » Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:58 pm

Tongue/mouth sores may not have a clear-cut cause;
but the real question is how to relieve it.
I found that regular application of manuka honey helps.
No prescription, and tastes very nice.
Not cheap, but it is amazing stuff.
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ChicagoGranny
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Re: Can CPAP cause tongue sores?

Post by ChicagoGranny » Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:35 am

chunkyfrog wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:58 pm
Tongue/mouth sores may not have a clear-cut cause;
but the real question is how to relieve it.
I found that regular application of manuka honey helps.
No prescription, and tastes very nice.
Not cheap, but it is amazing stuff.
I'm skeptical. Plus, won't it rot teeth?

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chunkyfrog
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Re: Can CPAP cause tongue sores?

Post by chunkyfrog » Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:53 am

ChicagoGranny wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:35 am
. . .
I'm skeptical. Plus, won't it rot teeth?
Honey is nearly liquid, so it washes down your throat and away from teeth fairly quickly.
Especially clean teeth--brush, brush, brush--tooth scum is an irritant, and worse.
Your worst decay risk comes from sticky caramel, hard candy, which dissolves slowly,
and processed sugars--which have any "natural good stuff" removed.
We don't fully understand everything in honey, except that it has antibacterial properties.
Manuka honey is a step up--as it also contains antioxidants.
Research is expensive, and is not done much unless patents are at stake.
Bees have no patents---only secrets.
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Conrad
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Re: Can CPAP cause tongue sores?

Post by Conrad » Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:30 am

GuanYu201 wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:35 pm
I have been using a Resmed Airsense 10 with the Dreamwear Nasal CPAP mask and headgear, without nasal pillows. It works well and all has been going fine except I have been waking up at least once a month with very painful canker sores on my left side of the tongue or just a sore left side of the tongue. I have found that these sores don't fully heal until about 2 weeks have passed, but once they are gone, 2-3 days later I have another one! Same place, same pain. My theory is that the CPAP is causing so much suction, and my jaw is partially open, that my left side of the tongue gets partially sucked between my upper and lower teeth. Then, at some point I bite down, just enough to pinch the tongue, for several minutes or hours while sleeping. Then when I wake up, I'm stuck with a sore left side of the tongue. Have any of you heard of this condition? I checked the forum and I found some talk about mouth sores, but I think it was related to extreme dryness of the mouth after using CPAP. I have had that, but not lately and it's rare. I plan on asking my doctor to refer me to an oral specialist so that I can find out more about why I get these sores. There does appear to be bite marks on the left side of my tongue, but I asked my dentist about it and he said that everyone has these imprints of their teeth on their tongue and that they weren't bite marks. By the way, there is no bleeding or swelling, so that is why I think the suction/pressure theory is more likely than biting my tongue during the night.
At one time I had an issue with canker sores too. As already stated above, there's no way for a cpap machine to cause these sores.

Two or three times a year I would get a canker sore somewhere in my mouth. Most of the time the sore developed after I bit the inside of my cheek or lip. These things are very painful and took at least a week or two to heal.

After I started cpap therapy I had an issue with dry mouth. Biotene dry mouth rinse was recommended to me by my doc. It helped with my dry mouth issues but the best thing that resulted from the use of Biotene was that it virtually eliminated the development of canker sores! I've been using my cpap, and Biotene, for about 9 years and I haven't had a canker sore in all that time.

YMMV
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palerider
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Re: Can CPAP cause tongue sores?

Post by palerider » Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:18 pm

ChicagoGranny wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:35 am
chunkyfrog wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:58 pm
I found that regular application of manuka honey helps
I'm skeptical. Plus, won't it rot teeth?
Why would honey, nature's antibiotic, rot teeth?
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ChicagoGranny
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Re: Can CPAP cause tongue sores?

Post by ChicagoGranny » Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:38 pm

palerider wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:18 pm
Why would honey, nature's antibiotic, rot teeth?
------------>
The purpose of this study was to determine and compare the cariogenicity of various fluids that are frequently fed to infants and toddlers. We chose to examine sucrose, cola drink, honey, human milk, cow milk, and water because some of these have been associated with development of early childhood caries, although direct experimental evidence is lacking.

Results. Cola, sucrose, and honey were by far the most cariogenic. In addition, cola and honey induced considerable erosion.

American Academy of Pediatrics
Article
Comparison of the Cariogenicity of Cola, Honey, Cow Milk, Human Milk, and Sucrose
https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/ ... nload=true
and
Conclusions: Consumption of honey increases caries in pediatric patients.
Shannon et al (2) in Association of Dentistry For Children
shorturl.at/dgnD8

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GuanYu201
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Re: Can CPAP cause tongue sores?

Post by GuanYu201 » Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:25 am

Conrad wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:30 am
GuanYu201 wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:35 pm
I have been using a Resmed Airsense 10 with the Dreamwear Nasal CPAP mask and headgear, without nasal pillows. It works well and all has been going fine except I have been waking up at least once a month with very painful canker sores on my left side of the tongue or just a sore left side of the tongue. I have found that these sores don't fully heal until about 2 weeks have passed, but once they are gone, 2-3 days later I have another one! Same place, same pain. My theory is that the CPAP is causing so much suction, and my jaw is partially open, that my left side of the tongue gets partially sucked between my upper and lower teeth. Then, at some point I bite down, just enough to pinch the tongue, for several minutes or hours while sleeping. Then when I wake up, I'm stuck with a sore left side of the tongue. Have any of you heard of this condition? I checked the forum and I found some talk about mouth sores, but I think it was related to extreme dryness of the mouth after using CPAP. I have had that, but not lately and it's rare. I plan on asking my doctor to refer me to an oral specialist so that I can find out more about why I get these sores. There does appear to be bite marks on the left side of my tongue, but I asked my dentist about it and he said that everyone has these imprints of their teeth on their tongue and that they weren't bite marks. By the way, there is no bleeding or swelling, so that is why I think the suction/pressure theory is more likely than biting my tongue during the night.
At one time I had an issue with canker sores too. As already stated above, there's no way for a cpap machine to cause these sores.

Two or three times a year I would get a canker sore somewhere in my mouth. Most of the time the sore developed after I bit the inside of my cheek or lip. These things are very painful and took at least a week or two to heal.

After I started cpap therapy I had an issue with dry mouth. Biotene dry mouth rinse was recommended to me by my doc. It helped with my dry mouth issues but the best thing that resulted from the use of Biotene was that it virtually eliminated the development of canker sores! I've been using my cpap, and Biotene, for about 9 years and I haven't had a canker sore in all that time.

YMMV
The occasional dry mouth effects of CPAP was one of the reasons I thought it could be causing my mouth/tongue sores. With a dry mouth you can get cracking and bleeding around lips, called angular cheilitis. I don't get that, but I thought maybe this effect could occur inside the mouth as well. From what I have been reading it looks like that's not the case. It must be something else, like food, or maybe a nutrient deficiency or an allergy, etc.. I don't believe that I am biting my tongue because there is no bleeding.