CPAP usage restrictions in Hospital

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
Jennybunny
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CPAP usage restrictions in Hospital

Post by Jennybunny » Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:11 am

I have been in Hospital quite a lot this year due to health problems (unrelated to CPAP) and the hospital (NHS) have this mandate where I have to stop using my CPAP an hour before anyone can enter my room in the morining.
I have been told that it's due to CoVid and that there are vents near the floor which pull the air which I have breathed and has settled.
I am only allowed to use it from 10pm to between 4am - 5am and if I am sleepy during the day, they will not allow me to use my CPAP, which as many of you know, your life depends on your CPAP while sleeping.
I would like to know if there is anyone else here who has had the same experience, mainly in UK, but welcome comments from anyone from outside the UK.
I do not believe this to be true as there are no vents in any ward I have ever been in and I always end up in a side room due to having a CPAP machine.
They tell me that in the last hour, the air settles and is drawn out by the vents, if this was true, the vents would be active 24/7 and not in this particular hour.

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Julie
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Re: CPAP usage restrictions in Hospital

Post by Julie » Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:53 am

I agree the hours allowed to use the machine are short, but likely enough to be sure you won't die the next day from OSA - we all have to adjust a bit now all things considered and I'm sure you'll be fine. After all, until you were diagnosed, you managed to survive without Cpap. I would not fuss about where the vents are - the staff likely have enough else to worry about.

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loggerhead12
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Re: CPAP usage restrictions in Hospital

Post by loggerhead12 » Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:12 am

So - if you have COVID the air coming out of your CPAP is infected, but the air coming out of your nose and mouth is not?

Were any actual medical doctors involved in that determination?

Policies like this are why we no longer trust those who are supposed to be medical authorities.

Sartman
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Re: CPAP usage restrictions in Hospital

Post by Sartman » Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:37 am

Is this policy in the United States also?

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palerider
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Re: CPAP usage restrictions in Hospital

Post by palerider » Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:26 am

Sartman wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:37 am
Is this policy in the United States also?
No, there's nothing like any kind of "standard policy" in the US.

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rick blaine
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Re: CPAP usage restrictions in Hospital

Post by rick blaine » Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:36 pm

Hi Jennybunny,

I have sleep apnea. I live in the UK, in Gloucestershire. And I was in an NHS hospital for 10 days last October – ie, a year ago today.

As far as I know, the rule about switching-off-CPAP-an-hour-before breakfast is national policy, coming from NICE (the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence). And btw, you don't mention it, but there is a parallel rule – any staff member on a non-Covid ward who has to come into your room for any reason while the CPAP machine is running has to 'suit-up' in full personal-protection equipment – N95 mask, visor, body suit.

So any contact with the patient during that time has to be for a good reason.

The two rules are based on the idea that it's the breathing out of possibly infected patients which is problematic. The out-breath from a Covid-infected person contains virus-rich moisture droplets. And CPAP treatment greatly amplifies both the amount of, and the wide dispersion of, said droplets.

These rules on non-Covid treating wards are there for the safety and protection of the doctors, nurses, and nurses' aides – and thru them, other patients. The hour between (a) you waking up and turning off the machine and (b) the nurses' aide bringing the cup of tea which is the start of giving out breakfast in NHS hospitals is deemed sufficient for the larger moisture droplets to drop to the floor.

And the easiest way to provide this level of protection for and with a patient who also has sleep apnea is to put them in a room by their self.

The hour-before thing did strike me at first as an odd-but-minor restriction – the more so since I was tested on the day of admission and tested again every three days after that. But that was just me thinking about it from a personal point of view. And it was clear from the way the staff behaved in observing these rules that they were and are national policy.

And if they were and are erring on the side of caution, I'm happy with that.

I'm also happy that I got both prompt and gold-standard treatment. I have no complaints. :)

RB.

PS. The bit about the vents near the floor – nah. The room I was in did not have extraction vents near the floor. The best way to deal with infected moisture droplets reaching the floor is to wash the floor – and my room got that every day.

Jennybunny
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Re: CPAP usage restrictions in Hospital

Post by Jennybunny » Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:23 pm

Julie wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:53 am
I agree the hours allowed to use the machine are short, but likely enough to be sure you won't die the next day from OSA - we all have to adjust a bit now all things considered and I'm sure you'll be fine. After all, until you were diagnosed, you managed to survive without Cpap. I would not fuss about where the vents are - the staff likely have enough else to worry about.
Actually, I stopped breathing twice and had to be resuscitated both times, all thanks to their stupid 'rules'. I have been monitored and the results of the monitoring, I am told I stop breathing every 6 seconds.

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Jennybunny
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Re: CPAP usage restrictions in Hospital

Post by Jennybunny » Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:38 pm

rick blaine wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:36 pm
Hi Jennybunny,

These rules on non-Covid treating wards are there for the safety and protection of the doctors, nurses, and nurses' aides – and thru them, other patients. The hour between (a) you waking up and turning off the machine and (b) the nurses' aide bringing the cup of tea which is the start of giving out breakfast in NHS hospitals is deemed sufficient for the larger moisture droplets to drop to the floor.

I'm also happy that I got both prompt and gold-standard treatment. I have no complaints. :)

RB.

PS. The bit about the vents near the floor – nah. The room I was in did not have extraction vents near the floor. The best way to deal with infected moisture droplets reaching the floor is to wash the floor – and my room got that every day.
Yep, they also had to do that here too. I wish I could say the same about not having any complaints, as their rough treatment on forcing me to use their mask, literally forcing it onto my face and slapping my hands away when I tried to adjust the mask as it was too tight. And telling me I could not put it on, but they could, yet they said I could take it off in the morning.

I don't know why they have to lie about the vent's bit, there are no vents in any part of the Hospital, they also cleaned the floor daily, even before the exaggerated flu outbreak..

I have found out more in your reply than all of the time I have been in Hospital this year regarding the restrictions regarding CPAP.
I have also contacted PALS at my local Hospital and they asked which ward(s) I was in and they said that they will contact them to find out why they were doing this. I won't hold my breath (pun intended :-) )

Thanks
Jenny

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zonker
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Re: CPAP usage restrictions in Hospital

Post by zonker » Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:44 pm

Jennybunny wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:38 pm


I have found out more in your reply than all of the time I have been in Hospital this year regarding the restrictions regarding CPAP.
rick is an absolute treasure trove of information on how the whole system works in your country.

we are mighty glad to have him here!
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Janknitz
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Re: CPAP usage restrictions in Hospital

Post by Janknitz » Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:48 pm

Before my daughter applied to medical schools we toured a school with a special ventilation system in the anatomy lab. Formaldehyde (or whatever they use these days) is heavier than room air, and there WERE vents near to floor to pull it out of the room. As a result, the anatomy lab didn't smell too bad at all. So there are systems that work like that, but whether it's actually built into these hospital rooms is a question.

What do they do for a patient that is on CPAP and needs an IV bag changed, or other treatment every certain number of hours? How do they wake you to take off your CPAP if they can't even come into the room? Would they deny you emergency treatment like CPR even if you don't have Covid because you coded while using CPAP? How long will it take to "suit up" while you are flat lined?

My daughter is a medical resident now, so I'm all for protecting healthcare personnel. But still, this seems a bit scary.
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D.H.
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Re: CPAP usage restrictions in Hospital

Post by D.H. » Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:21 pm

loggerhead12 wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:12 am
So - if you have COVID the air coming out of your CPAP is infected, but the air coming out of your nose and mouth is not?

Were any actual medical doctors involved in that determination?

Policies like this are why we no longer trust those who are supposed to be medical authorities.
My understanding is not that the Covid-19 virus "lives" in the your CPAP machine. Rather, they feel like you might have the virus, and that the machine will spread it much more efficiently than your natural breathing.

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Re: CPAP usage restrictions in Hospital

Post by rick blaine » Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:53 am

Hi janknitz,

You ask: "What do they do for a patient that is on CPAP and needs an IV bag changed, or other treatment every certain number of hours?"

If the patient is on a non-Covid ward, and if the CPAP machine is on – then the doctor or nurse suits up into full PPE – personal protective equipment – and then enters the room.

If you re-read what I posted above, you'll see that I mentioned that. :)

In my case, I was on 'six hours obs' – observations every six hours accompanied by a change of drip. And after the first night of that, with the change-over made at 2 am – when my machine was on, and the nurse had to fully suit-up – I negotiated with the nurses that (a) starting from mid-nite, I would sleep, CPAP supported, for only five hours – and then (b) I'd switch off, and be ready for the next obs at 6 am.

I did this because I have no trouble in fully co-operating with people when they're working to save my life. Simples. :)

As to your 'what if the patient coded?' question – these days, if there's any danger of a patient coding, and their virus status is untested, they'll be put in a ward where at least one person who is trained in re-suss is suited up all the time – and in fresh, that is, uncontaminated PPE.

I know it's a different jurisdiction, but please credit the staff in my locale with having thought thru and anticipated such problems and contingencies, and having put adequate cover in place.

Jennybunny
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Re: CPAP usage restrictions in Hospital

Post by Jennybunny » Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:06 am

Janknitz wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:48 pm
Before my daughter applied to medical schools we toured a school with a special ventilation system in the anatomy lab. Formaldehyde (or whatever they use these days) is heavier than room air, and there WERE vents near to floor to pull it out of the room. As a result, the anatomy lab didn't smell too bad at all. So there are systems that work like that, but whether it's actually built into these hospital rooms is a question.
In my local Hospital, there are NO vents in any of the wards.
What do they do for a patient that is on CPAP and needs an IV bag changed, or other treatment every certain number of hours? How do they wake you to take off your CPAP if they can't even come into the room? Would they deny you emergency treatment like CPR even if you don't have Covid because you coded while using CPAP? How long will it take to "suit up" while you are flat lined?
They would have to 'suit up', which takes 30 mins.

Also, the Hospital filled in a 'RESPECT' form and on it was DNR. Which I was very annoyed about. I was in a total of 8 or 9 times (this year has been a bit rough for me). The first time, I was constantly cold and at one point, I had 9 blankets on me. The second time I was in was due to the first where I ended up with pneumonia. It was only the last time I was in that there was no 'RESPECT' form with DNR on it and I stopped breathing twice.
My daughter is a medical resident now, so I'm all for protecting healthcare personnel. But still, this seems a bit scary.
I hope she has not been forced to have the jab as it's experimental and alters a persons RNA and due to this, they are then classed as non-human. It also voids life insurance as the jab is experimental.

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Re: CPAP usage restrictions in Hospital

Post by Julie » Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:17 am

Experimental?

Two yrs ago very, very many people (older yes, but being together in long term care homes aggravated that horribly) died of Covid, but now that hundreds of thousands/millions have been vacc'd that's no longer the case and the vast majority of new cases are from unvacc'd people. You may call it whatever you want, but the proof does seem to be in the pudding of far more people now living than the other way around. And the vaccinations had been in the works for decades since the original Coronovirus (SARS, etc) showed up - they weren't just thrown together when Covid 19 came around and are no more 'experimental' now than any of the vaccinations children get as standards when they're young - and no one has questioned those in very, very many years.

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Re: CPAP usage restrictions in Hospital

Post by palerider » Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:05 am

Jennybunny wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:06 am
I hope she has not been forced to have the jab as it's experimental and alters a persons RNA and due to this, they are then classed as non-human. It also voids life insurance as the jab is experimental.
Please keep the bullshit lies out of the forum.

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