questions about tubes

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onward60
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questions about tubes

Post by onward60 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:00 pm

So far I have not succeeded in sleeping with the mask because the cold air hitting my face is like a slap that wakes me up. I have been reading and have more questions than answers.

I read about rainout. What is it? Something dripping on your face? Why does this happen? Is it common?

Why do people use heated tubes? There are so many on cpap.com. How do you choose one?

Why do people use hose covers?

Thanks.
New to CPAP in Sept. 2021. N20 and MAD caused dental pain. Currently trying the Resmed Airfit F20 (medium). ResMed Air 10 for her machine.

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Dog Slobber
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Re: questions about tubes

Post by Dog Slobber » Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:09 pm

Rainout is when the humid air (from the humidifer) condenses back into water, inside the tube or mask. Think of a cold pitcher of water on a hot, humid day, all the water droplets from on the glass pitcher.

The same thing can happen within the CPAP hose, the water builds up, gets noisy and can then blow into your mask.

A heated hose (or cover) reduces or prevents rainout.

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onward60
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Re: questions about tubes

Post by onward60 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:52 pm

Dog Slobber wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:09 pm
Rainout is when the humid air (from the humidifer) condenses back into water, inside the tube or mask. Think of a cold pitcher of water on a hot, humid day, all the water droplets from on the glass pitcher.

The same thing can happen within the CPAP hose, the water builds up, gets noisy and can then blow into your mask.

A heated hose (or cover) reduces or prevents rainout.
Thank you. Do you use a heated hose or cover? Is one better than the other?
New to CPAP in Sept. 2021. N20 and MAD caused dental pain. Currently trying the Resmed Airfit F20 (medium). ResMed Air 10 for her machine.

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Pugsy
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Re: questions about tubes

Post by Pugsy » Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:07 pm

If the cold air bothers you and you aren't using a heated hose then get a heated hose.

Increasing the humidity setting or adding a hose cover is not going to warm up the air coming to your face all that much.

Heated hose can warm the air in the hose to 86 degrees. Should eliminate the cold air problem.
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onward60
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Re: questions about tubes

Post by onward60 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:09 pm

On a related topic, I just did the pre-warm-up of the humidifier on my Airsense 10. After 20 minuets, the metal plate inside the machine is somewhat warm. The water in the tank feels cool. I don't think it's any warmer than when I poured it in. Is this really as warm as it gets without a heated hose? It's a used unit. I'm just wondering if something is wrong with it.
New to CPAP in Sept. 2021. N20 and MAD caused dental pain. Currently trying the Resmed Airfit F20 (medium). ResMed Air 10 for her machine.

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Pugsy
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Re: questions about tubes

Post by Pugsy » Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:26 pm

What is your humidity setting?

If you are thinking the water will ever feel hot or even very warm....wrong thinking.
Even at maximum humidity setting the water won't ever feel that warm because it is always going to be cooler than your body temp.

Hose air temp doesn't affect the water chamber temp or water temp anyway.
Hose air temp and water chamber/humidity settings are totally separate from each other.
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onward60
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Re: questions about tubes

Post by onward60 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:46 pm

It says humidity level 4.

The water in the tank felt room temperature after it "warmed up." Can't figure out what the warm up is supposed to be doing.

I'm looking at heated hoses. I think I should wait until I get some sleep before I decide to spend money on something.
New to CPAP in Sept. 2021. N20 and MAD caused dental pain. Currently trying the Resmed Airfit F20 (medium). ResMed Air 10 for her machine.

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Dog Slobber
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Re: questions about tubes

Post by Dog Slobber » Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:54 pm

onward60 wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:46 pm

The water in the tank felt room temperature after it "warmed up." Can't figure out what the warm up is supposed to be doing.
The warmer the water the more water vapour that will be generated.

Boiling water (100 C) generates a lot of water vapour (steam).
Almost boiling water (95 C) generates a lot of water vapour , but not as much.
Slightly cooler water, less vapour, and so on.

When your humidifier is at 4, it is slightly warmer than at 3 and creates a little bit more water vapour.

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onward60
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Re: questions about tubes

Post by onward60 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:57 pm

Dog Slobber wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:54 pm
onward60 wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:46 pm

The water in the tank felt room temperature after it "warmed up." Can't figure out what the warm up is supposed to be doing.
The warmer the water the more water vapour that will be generated.

Boiling water (100 C) generates a lot of water vapour (steam).
Almost boiling water (95 C) generates a lot of water vapour , but not as much.
Slightly cooler water, less vapour, and so on.

When your humidifier is at 4, it is slightly warmer than at 3 and creates a little bit more water vapour.

So it doesn't mean warm up the water? It means get up to humidity level? When I told her the cold air was bothering me, the gal at the DME told me using the "warm up" would warm up the water!
New to CPAP in Sept. 2021. N20 and MAD caused dental pain. Currently trying the Resmed Airfit F20 (medium). ResMed Air 10 for her machine.

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Pugsy
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Re: questions about tubes

Post by Pugsy » Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:22 pm

Warming the water more with a higher humidity setting is unlikely to impact hose air temp much, if at all.
The slightly warmer water simply can't warm the air in the hose all that much.
You could try a higher humidity setting if you wish and see but don't be surprised if the air coming to your face isn't much warmer.

You still haven't slept very much with the mask on and if the cold air really bugs you then how are you going to get more hours of sleep if the cold air keeps you awake?

Also remember that the ambient bedroom temperature affects the air coming into the machine and also the hose air temp once the air leaves the machine and gets into the hose.
If your bedroom is rather cool then it will also cool the air in the non heated hose. If it wasn't ever very warm to start with then it will be even cooler by the time it reaches your face.
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onward60
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Re: questions about tubes

Post by onward60 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:02 pm

Pugsy wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:22 pm
Warming the water more with a higher humidity setting is unlikely to impact hose air temp much, if at all.
The slightly warmer water simply can't warm the air in the hose all that much.
You could try a higher humidity setting if you wish and see but don't be surprised if the air coming to your face isn't much warmer.

You still haven't slept very much with the mask on and if the cold air really bugs you then how are you going to get more hours of sleep if the cold air keeps you awake?

Also remember that the ambient bedroom temperature affects the air coming into the machine and also the hose air temp once the air leaves the machine and gets into the hose.
If your bedroom is rather cool then it will also cool the air in the non heated hose. If it wasn't ever very warm to start with then it will be even cooler by the time it reaches your face.

So I think you're saying I need to get a heated hose, right?
New to CPAP in Sept. 2021. N20 and MAD caused dental pain. Currently trying the Resmed Airfit F20 (medium). ResMed Air 10 for her machine.

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onward60
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Re: questions about tubes

Post by onward60 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:04 pm

I told my sleep nurse the reason I logged so little time was the cold air in my face was keeping me awake. This was his reply:

"The air temperature can be adjusted. Your equipment company can walk you through how to do that. Actually, patients often feel that the air is too warm for them."

Can anyone make any sense of this?
New to CPAP in Sept. 2021. N20 and MAD caused dental pain. Currently trying the Resmed Airfit F20 (medium). ResMed Air 10 for her machine.

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Julie
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Re: questions about tubes

Post by Julie » Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:44 pm

Hi, well when it is very warm (summer) it is uncomfortable to use Cpap at times and the warm air doesn't seem to promote great AHI numbers, but that's relative and most people have A/C... just another thing tho' to factor in. You're trying to cover every conceivable base before you even get going and will drive yourself cuckoo :D , maybe try to relax and take one thing at a time (which also makes it easier to isolate any problems that do show up).

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Re: questions about tubes

Post by chunkyfrog » Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:46 pm

Re: what your "sleep nurse" said:
Some people are paid way too much for what little they know or understand.
You can't fix stupid--just learn to work around it.
Resmed Airsense 10 Autoset FOR HER, p10 mask

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onward60
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Re: questions about tubes

Post by onward60 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:44 am

Julie wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:44 pm
Hi, well when it is very warm (summer) it is uncomfortable to use Cpap at times and the warm air doesn't seem to promote great AHI numbers, but that's relative and most people have A/C... just another thing tho' to factor in. You're trying to cover every conceivable base before you even get going and will drive yourself cuckoo :D , maybe try to relax and take one thing at a time (which also makes it easier to isolate any problems that do show up).
It's so complicated. :( The thing is, I can't even use the thing because it's blowing cold air in my face.
New to CPAP in Sept. 2021. N20 and MAD caused dental pain. Currently trying the Resmed Airfit F20 (medium). ResMed Air 10 for her machine.

My private messages might be turned off.