Looking to test out CPAP

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
lynninnj
Posts: 569
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2022 8:56 am

Re: Looking to test out CPAP

Post by lynninnj » Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:02 am

Bujiba wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 7:34 am
It's been over a year since I made the above inquiry about testing out CPAP on my own. I don't recall why I was derailed from the plan. A few months later, I found myself being passed around from department to department at the university dental hospital with a few issues. One of those trips was for gingival pain treatment. The professor treating me noted the damage from clenching and grinding and asked me about my sleep. Of course I told her that I thought I had apnea, but hadn't had a sleep study done. She mentioned that resolving the apnea often reduces the clenching and grinding and referred me to the ENT deparment. The sleep study revealed mild to moderate apnea. I was initially advised for a MAD, but I ended up with a Resmed Autoset 10 and an N20 mask. I have been using it for 2 weeks. The first few nights my AHI was in the 1 and 2 range, but It has been progressively increasing. Now its in the 10 range. My pressure is set from 5 to 12. Since I am being treated at the main university hospital in Seoul, I have to wait for 3 months for my follow up appointment. \

That's too long for me to wait to make changes so I am back here to ask for help. I am waiting for a card reader and then I will figure out how to upload the data.

I find that the mask I am using is maybe not the best for me. The pressure collapses my nostrils if my mouth is opened. Sometimes the mask pinches my nostrils and closes one when I am on my side. I know I have mouth leaks, but I think they may be getting better with the tongue trick. I also have a tendency to drape my arms over my face so I cover the exhaust and it wakes me, not good for CO2 levels as well. I am thinking about trying the p30i due to the form factor possibly correcting these issues.

I have been referred to a surgeon for my collapsing nostrils. If I decide to proceed, it will be at least a year's wait. I am hoping a nasal pillow (not the cradle type will help).
As a TMJ sufferer I can say with much certainty....find a new spot to put your arms. DO NOT drape them over your face or head. When my hand rests anywhere near the jaw it creates not just jaw pain but find that correlates with a crappy nights sleep (even if it isn't necessarily the cause.)

I had the N30i which is similar to the P30i and found the headgear made the jaw pain worse. Your mileage may vary with that, but I think you would do better with a P1- than that P10i. You might even like the one I use which is the N30 (no i). The Bleep has zero headgear and may suit you as well as far as keeping the TMJ down to a minimum. I agree too that proper therapy, for me, has cut down on the jaw pain and grinding *a bit. As long as I keep my hands off my face.

Others have posted about cervical collars and taping to help with mouth opening during sleep. I have found if I lay down and have my chin up rather than down it help the way a cervical collar would by keeping the tissues of the throat from collapsing. That only works if I have a night relatively free of tossing or turning because I have to remember to do it every time I roll over (lift the chin).

Good luck and hope you find the happy fitting mask and what works for you.

_________________
Machine: AirSense 11 Autoset
Mask: ResMed AirFit N30 Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Newbie who loves her machine!
Spare me the nitpicking. I have a serious health issue and I came here to learn to manage it by managing my OSA. Move along if you can’t be kind.

User avatar
ChicagoGranny
Posts: 12869
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:43 pm
Location: USA

Re: Looking to test out CPAP

Post by ChicagoGranny » Sun Sep 18, 2022 3:02 pm

Bujiba wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 7:34 am
I have been referred to a surgeon for my collapsing nostrils.
I think Froggy is referring to UPPP surgeries.

Nasal surgery to correct a deviated septum or enlarged turbinates is safe and can have wonderful results.

Bujiba
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:33 am

Re: Looking to test out CPAP

Post by Bujiba » Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:54 pm

chunkyfrog wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:48 am
Surgery is rarely a good solution, except for the surgeon and his broker.
Try to avoid that.
ChicagoGranny wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 3:02 pm
I think Froggy is referring to UPPP surgeries.
Nasal surgery to correct a deviated septum or enlarged turbinates is safe and can have wonderful results.
While I am being cautious about the surgery, I feel I am in good hands as university hospitals are not, from my experience, motivated by profit. I have already met the surgeon. He ordered my CPAP and seemed confused as to why the prior ENT suggested a MAD first. I then told him that the ENT also listed surgery as an option. He quickly said that that was not a solution for apnea, to sick with trying CPAP. He mentioned that my septum alignment was good enough and didn't mention anything about turbinates. The issues is that the cartilage that forms the shape of the nostril and gives is structure is missing on both sides. Typically, it's one.

lynninnj wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:02 am
When my hand rests anywhere near the jaw it creates not just jaw pain but find that correlates with a crappy nights sleep (even if it isn't necessarily the cause.)

I had the N30i which is similar to the P30i and found the headgear made the jaw pain worse. Your mileage may vary with that, but I think you would do better with a P1- than that P10i. You might even like the one I use which is the N30 (no i). The Bleep has zero headgear and may suit you as well as far as keeping the TMJ down to a minimum. I agree too that proper therapy, for me, has cut down on the jaw pain and grinding *a bit. As long as I keep my hands off my face.

Others have posted about cervical collars and taping to help with mouth opening during sleep. I have found if I lay down and have my chin up rather than down it help the way a cervical collar would by keeping the tissues of the throat from collapsing. That only works if I have a night relatively free of tossing or turning because I have to remember to do it every time I roll over (lift the chin).
I have already noticed a small difference in clenching. My muscles are less tired, sort to speak. Part of the journey through the dental hospital was having an implant removed. My body rejected 2 implants. However one was removed at a private clinic. Unfortunately, his removal technique was crap and there as been a lot of subsequent bone loss. The professor that removed the second implant without any bone loss will be doing a bone graft after an allergy test. I feel in excellent hands with her. She's been great. (Actually they have all been great. I've met a few.) In any case, I updated her on Friday and she informed me that the CPAP may not be enough to reduce the tension, grinding and clenching. She proceeded to sway that there are 2 solutions. One being a bite plate. But she said newer research has shown that they can alter occlusion over time and cause more issues later. The other is botox injections and that they have to be done right--not just in the jaw muscles, but in some other head/facial muscles that pick up the slack when the jaw is weakened. I agreed that I am open to the idea it if the CPAP therapy doesn't resolve my issues.

Thank you for the mask suggestions. I have looked into the N30, but I assume the cradle shape will push on my nostrils when on my side and aid in collapsing them and leaking. Do you mean the P10 vs the p30i, not P1 and P10i? Due to my arm draping, I was hoping to to have an elephant exhaust port. I have also been looking at an F&P nasal mask. It seems to be a hybrid of the N20 and P10. I forget the name. But it also has a diffuser. I have hope that it will help with my arm issue. I don't know how to stop draping my arm on my face. Interestingly, I felt horrible when I woke up at my sleep study and that is the position I was in when I woke up. You might be on to something with the connection to terrible sleep.

I have been reading some of the post about a collar as well. It's on my radar. One thing at a time. Thank you for the advice.


I will have 2 weeks of data when my card reader arrives. To get some therapy help, I am not sure which days of data I should post. One of the good days at the beginning and one of the current bad ones? I still need to read a primer on how to post the data. Should I post the sleep study as well?

User avatar
ChicagoGranny
Posts: 12869
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:43 pm
Location: USA

Re: Looking to test out CPAP

Post by ChicagoGranny » Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:58 am

Bujiba wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:54 pm
Due to my arm draping, I was hoping to to have an elephant exhaust port.
By "elephant exhaust port", do you mean a mask like the P30i which has an exhaust port on the hose elbow? Note that the P30i also has an exhaust vent on the front of the mask. This vent must not be blocked to prevent rebreathing of exhaled air.

Unfortunately, finding the right mask is often a trial-and-error process. Maybe you are already studying masks, specifications, ratings, reviews and popularity at cpap.com. When starting out, it's best to stick with the most popular ones because, as Captain Obvious says, the odds of a popular one working for you are higher as compared to an unpopular mask.

Whichever mask you are trying, find it on youtube and carefully watch three or four videos about fitting and adjusting. Failure to fit and adjust properly may be the number one reason for moving on to other masks.

lynninnj
Posts: 569
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2022 8:56 am

Re: Looking to test out CPAP

Post by lynninnj » Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:23 am

Bujiba wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:54 pm
chunkyfrog wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:48 am
Surgery is rarely a good solution, except for the surgeon and his broker.
Try to avoid that.
ChicagoGranny wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 3:02 pm
I think Froggy is referring to UPPP surgeries.
Nasal surgery to correct a deviated septum or enlarged turbinates is safe and can have wonderful results.
While I am being cautious about the surgery, I feel I am in good hands as university hospitals are not, from my experience, motivated by profit. I have already met the surgeon. He ordered my CPAP and seemed confused as to why the prior ENT suggested a MAD first. I then told him that the ENT also listed surgery as an option. He quickly said that that was not a solution for apnea, to sick with trying CPAP. He mentioned that my septum alignment was good enough and didn't mention anything about turbinates. The issues is that the cartilage that forms the shape of the nostril and gives is structure is missing on both sides. Typically, it's one.

lynninnj wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:02 am
When my hand rests anywhere near the jaw it creates not just jaw pain but find that correlates with a crappy nights sleep (even if it isn't necessarily the cause.)

I had the N30i which is similar to the P30i and found the headgear made the jaw pain worse. Your mileage may vary with that, but I think you would do better with a P1- than that P10i. You might even like the one I use which is the N30 (no i). The Bleep has zero headgear and may suit you as well as far as keeping the TMJ down to a minimum. I agree too that proper therapy, for me, has cut down on the jaw pain and grinding *a bit. As long as I keep my hands off my face.

Others have posted about cervical collars and taping to help with mouth opening during sleep. I have found if I lay down and have my chin up rather than down it help the way a cervical collar would by keeping the tissues of the throat from collapsing. That only works if I have a night relatively free of tossing or turning because I have to remember to do it every time I roll over (lift the chin).
I have already noticed a small difference in clenching. My muscles are less tired, sort to speak. Part of the journey through the dental hospital was having an implant removed. My body rejected 2 implants. However one was removed at a private clinic. Unfortunately, his removal technique was crap and there as been a lot of subsequent bone loss. The professor that removed the second implant without any bone loss will be doing a bone graft after an allergy test. I feel in excellent hands with her. She's been great. (Actually they have all been great. I've met a few.) In any case, I updated her on Friday and she informed me that the CPAP may not be enough to reduce the tension, grinding and clenching. She proceeded to sway that there are 2 solutions. One being a bite plate. But she said newer research has shown that they can alter occlusion over time and cause more issues later. The other is botox injections and that they have to be done right--not just in the jaw muscles, but in some other head/facial muscles that pick up the slack when the jaw is weakened. I agreed that I am open to the idea it if the CPAP therapy doesn't resolve my issues.

Thank you for the mask suggestions. I have looked into the N30, but I assume the cradle shape will push on my nostrils when on my side and aid in collapsing them and leaking. Do you mean the P10 vs the p30i, not P1 and P10i? Due to my arm draping, I was hoping to to have an elephant exhaust port. I have also been looking at an F&P nasal mask. It seems to be a hybrid of the N20 and P10. I forget the name. But it also has a diffuser. I have hope that it will help with my arm issue. I don't know how to stop draping my arm on my face. Interestingly, I felt horrible when I woke up at my sleep study and that is the position I was in when I woke up. You might be on to something with the connection to terrible sleep.

I have been reading some of the post about a collar as well. It's on my radar. One thing at a time. Thank you for the advice.


I will have 2 weeks of data when my card reader arrives. To get some therapy help, I am not sure which days of data I should post. One of the good days at the beginning and one of the current bad ones? I still need to read a primer on how to post the data. Should I post the sleep study as well?
Please forgive my typi yes I meant P10. that one actually has little silicone bits that sit up IN the nostrils. There’s two types of straps for P10/N30. The new ones with buckles I fin uncomfortably close to my temples and the “old school P10” straps with no buckles. Cheap knockoffs can be had online and I have several. This allows me to put on a new snug one every night and the others shrink up after wash and dryer. If you somehow managed to only sleep on one side you will be able to put the buckle on the side on top.

I used to sleep on my hands which hurt my hands. I trained myself to hug up on a stuffed animal at my chest. If you’re a dude and not happy with that suggestion hugging a small pillow to your chest may help you break the habit at least some of the time.

The CPAP has not made my TMJ issues go away. Not completely. I do some trigger point work at some muscles near the jaw and that helps tremendously. I am not a dentist but I don’t know that that ever goes away as long as you have a loose ligament or two or three on one side or the other.

It’s good to know that you have some options in your back pocket for later but I would say give some of these things to try in the meantime.

Hope that helps

_________________
Machine: AirSense 11 Autoset
Mask: ResMed AirFit N30 Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Newbie who loves her machine!
Spare me the nitpicking. I have a serious health issue and I came here to learn to manage it by managing my OSA. Move along if you can’t be kind.

User avatar
zonker
Posts: 9539
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:36 pm

Re: Looking to test out CPAP

Post by zonker » Mon Sep 19, 2022 3:40 pm

Bujiba wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:54 pm



I will have 2 weeks of data when my card reader arrives. To get some therapy help, I am not sure which days of data I should post. One of the good days at the beginning and one of the current bad ones? I still need to read a primer on how to post the data. Should I post the sleep study as well?
generally speaking, don't post the sleep study unless asked. if you do, be sure to redact personal info on the report. as to the "primer", read this link for helpful info-

viewtopic/t172378/Sticky--Newbies-PLEAS ... STING.html

good luck!
"the world is full of good people. if you can't find one, be one."-sleepgeek(avatar)

"I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
The sinners are much more fun
You know that only the good die young"-billy joel

Bujiba
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:33 am

Re: Looking to test out CPAP

Post by Bujiba » Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:54 am

ChicagoGranny wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:58 am
Bujiba wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:54 pm
Due to my arm draping, I was hoping to to have an elephant exhaust port.
By "elephant exhaust port", do you mean a mask like the P30i which has an exhaust port on the hose elbow? Note that the P30i also has an exhaust vent on the front of the mask. This vent must not be blocked to prevent rebreathing of exhaled air.

Unfortunately, finding the right mask is often a trial-and-error process. Maybe you are already studying masks, specifications, ratings, reviews and popularity at cpap.com. When starting out, it's best to stick with the most popular ones because, as Captain Obvious says, the odds of a popular one working for you are higher as compared to an unpopular mask.

Whichever mask you are trying, find it on youtube and carefully watch three or four videos about fitting and adjusting. Failure to fit and adjust properly may be the number one reason for moving on to other masks.
Actually, That should have read I was hoping to NOT have an elephant exhaust port. Meaning the exhaust being at the nose only. I don't want to cover it. It is noisy when I sleep on my side and a pillow or blanket gets in the area or blocks it. Not to mention my arm. I have re-read the tips you posted last year and following your advice. At CPAP.com they have listed the N30i as the best for side sleepers. Due to issues already mentioned, I think the p30i might suit me better.
lynninnj wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:23 am


Please forgive my typi yes I meant P10. that one actually has little silicone bits that sit up IN the nostrils. There’s two types of straps for P10/N30. The new ones with buckles I fin uncomfortably close to my temples and the “old school P10” straps with no buckles. Cheap knockoffs can be had online and I have several. This allows me to put on a new snug one every night and the others shrink up after wash and dryer. If you somehow managed to only sleep on one side you will be able to put the buckle on the side on top.

I used to sleep on my hands which hurt my hands. I trained myself to hug up on a stuffed animal at my chest. If you’re a dude and not happy with that suggestion hugging a small pillow to your chest may help you break the habit at least some of the time.

The CPAP has not made my TMJ issues go away. Not completely. I do some trigger point work at some muscles near the jaw and that helps tremendously. I am not a dentist but I don’t know that that ever goes away as long as you have a loose ligament or two or three on one side or the other.

Thanks for the tips with the P10. My problem is tightness. My muscles are tense, tight and like a rock. I use a trigger point ball when it's bad. You're right. It helps a lot.

Zonker, Noted. Thanks.

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Respirator99
Posts: 178
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2021 12:39 am
Location: Australia

Re: Looking to test out CPAP

Post by Respirator99 » Tue Sep 20, 2022 4:53 am

chunkyfrog wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:48 am
Surgery is rarely a good solution, except for the surgeon and his broker.
Try to avoid that.
Agreed - surgery for sleep apnea is really the very last option to consider. Never had it myself but others have reported it's very painful and often doesn't reduce the apnea enough to dispense with the machine. A lot of trauma, pain and expense for nothing.

You've got an excellent machine in the Airsense 10 Autoset. The thing to do now is to get some detailed data happening. There are two main options:

1. Oscar https://www.sleepfiles.com/OSCAR/
2. SleepHQ https://sleephq.com

Oscar requires a "real" computer such as a Windows PC, Mac or Linux box. It won't work on a phone or tablet. However Oscar will give you the greatest quantity of useful data. With Oscar you can make a snapshot of the data display and post it to the forum.

SleepHQ will work on any device with a web browser including phones and tablets. Like Oscar, you need to download the data from an SD card in your machine. SleepHQ has the great advantage of allowing you to share a link to your data so that other people can look in detail, zoom in and pan around. However the package is not as complete as Oscar and does require you to upoad your data to a remote server which some people won't want to do for security reasons.

Once you get either of these programs working, post an image or link and people will be able to make some constructive comments.
* Download Oscar
* Oscar help
* Organise your Oscar charts

I have no medical training or qualifications. I'm just a bloke on the internet - take my advice for what it's worth.