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Re: Sticky: Phillips Respironics recent recall notice discussion thread
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 12:26 pm
by Davidtoo
What I don't get is how Phillips could not have known far earlier that the foam released gasses. We are talking about many people with already compromised pulmonary systems breathing this stuff in, let alone the potential hazardous particles. It makes no sense to me how this could have gotten by the company until now.
I sure am not happy that I have been using its product for the last four months....I am glad there are lawyers looking into this.
Re: Sticky: Phillips Respironics recent recall notice discussion thread
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 12:51 pm
by ButtermilkBuoy
Grumpy48 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:34 pm
"Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep........" 
How many have discontinued use of their foam mattress or pillows due to nightly exposure to highly toxic VOC's which is made worse by the heat of your body laying directly on it? The foam used in a CPAP is at best comprised of a small nine square inches of foam and maybe an 1/8" in thickness. Compare that to the ginormous size of queen or king mattress and pillows that you lay on nightly inhaling the off-gassing VOC's probably in a concentration 100's of times more than the small strips of foam used in your Philips CPAP. Not saying you shouldn't be concerned about the foam in your CPAP or continue its use, but perhaps put things in proper perspective of other things around you which could potentially cause greater harm
.
https://www.sleepadvisor.org/toxic-mate ... attresses/
9 square inches by 1/8 inch deep is about 1 cubic inch of foam. Chemical-wise, that's nothing. Even a small female with a low respiratory rate inhales in excess of 500 gallons of air per night. Any off-gassing is going to be so highly diluted there is no danger.
Respironics has made an overreaction. I will continue to use my machine.
Re: Sticky: Phillips Respironics recent recall notice discussion thread
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:12 pm
by DMZABO
Ok so I went into my dreamstation 1 bi/pap . I removed the foam like the Australian bloke in his video. Put it back together and the machine went into choo choo train mode . Meaning i couldn’t even keep my mask on. My usual settings are 17 in 15 out.
I thought it would just stay at the same level but with a slight increase Do to the foam blockage not being there. So I put a roll medical gauze into the 2 areas where the foam was before. And man did this help out tremendously. It was Almost as if I didn’t pull the cancer causing foams out. (no really this surprised me) But then it dawned on me is the gauze susceptible to a mold of some kind? Anyone have any thoughts on this please ?
Re: Sticky: Phillips Respironics recent recall notice discussion thread
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:22 pm
by Davidtoo
ButtermilkBuoy wrote: ↑Fri Jul 09, 2021 12:51 pm
Grumpy48 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:34 pm
"Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep........"
How many have discontinued use of their foam mattress or pillows due to nightly exposure to highly toxic VOC's which is made worse by the heat of your body laying directly on it? The foam used in a CPAP is at best comprised of a small nine square inches of foam and maybe an 1/8" in thickness. Compare that to the ginormous size of queen or king mattress and pillows that you lay on nightly inhaling the off-gassing VOC's probably in a concentration 100's of times more than the small strips of foam used in your Philips CPAP. Not saying you shouldn't be concerned about the foam in your CPAP or continue its use, but perhaps put things in proper perspective of other things around you which could potentially cause greater harm
.
https://www.sleepadvisor.org/toxic-mate ... attresses/
9 square inches by 1/8 inch deep is about 1 cubic inch of foam. Chemical-wise, that's nothing. Even a small female with a low respiratory rate inhales in excess of 500 gallons of air per night. Any off-gassing is going to be so highly diluted there is no danger.
Respironics has made an overreaction. I will continue to use my machine.
Obviously the manufacturer and seller of the machine thinks differently, I doubt it entered into a Recall that will cost it hundreds of millions if not more on the spur of the moment. So with all due respect, your post makes no sense.
Re: Sticky: Phillips Respironics recent recall notice discussion thread
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:37 pm
by Grumpy48
It would be interesting if this tester is sensitive enough to detect TVOC's (total VOC's) contained in the air out flow of a CPAP(?)
https://www.amazon.com/IGERESS-Detector ... B07P8L2T7C
Or if one has the aptitude to construct Arduino projects......
https://www.amazon.com/KEYESTUDIO-Dioxi ... =hi&sr=1-2
Re: Sticky: Phillips Respironics recent recall notice discussion thread
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 6:58 pm
by rhashimoto
Davidtoo wrote: ↑Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:22 pm
ButtermilkBuoy wrote: ↑Fri Jul 09, 2021 12:51 pm
9 square inches by 1/8 inch deep is about 1 cubic inch of foam. Chemical-wise, that's nothing. Even a small female with a low respiratory rate inhales in excess of 500 gallons of air per night. Any off-gassing is going to be so highly diluted there is no danger.
Respironics has made an overreaction. I will continue to use my machine.
Obviously the manufacturer and seller of the machine thinks differently, I doubt it entered into a Recall that will cost it hundreds of millions if not more on the spur of the moment. So with all due respect, your post makes no sense.
The risk analyses for Philips and for patients are different. It can both be true that the risk for any particular patient is very small and the risk for Philips is significant.
For example, and I'm just pulling numbers out the air here, say there is a 1 in 10,000 chance that an outgassing machine will give you cancer and kill you. You might rationally consider that risk to be negligible in comparison to going without therapy.
In contrast, 1 in 10,000 means that about 400 estates could be bringing a wrongful death suit if Philips does nothing. If they average a $3 million payout, they are on the hook for $1.2 billion plus reputation damage. They might rationally consider avoiding that worth a $600 million recall.
I have no idea if this is the situation, but the point is that completely rational actors can make apparently contradictory decisions because their risks are not symmetric.
Re: Sticky: Phillips Respironics recent recall notice discussion thread
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 7:15 pm
by kbh209
Today I went to my appointment at the ENT specialist's office. She's not a sleep specialist, but I had the strangest but strongest urge to let her know of the Philips Respironics recall. She was super thankful, as soon as lunch time, she was going to reach out to her mom about the recall - and she let me know she was going to start educating her patients, if she knew they were on CPAP/BiPap therapy.
Re: Sticky: Phillips Respironics recent recall notice discussion thread
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:28 pm
by Dan_McD
The fact that the UK has played down the seriousness of the Dreamstation recall has ate at me all day. You know what they always say "Follow the Money."
Number one, the UK Health Administration is not the Albert Einstein of all Health entities for one thing. They have had more problems with the Wuhan Flu than many Countries including the USA and Asia per capita.
Number two, I looked on the bottom of my Dreamstation and sometimes lack of information is more telling than some information. With out taking the Dreamstation apart I could not find a "Made In ____" anywhere on the machine. Not in the humidifier, not in the water tank, not under lids or filters, none. I did notice a sticker on the bottom and certification by a company named "Intertek." Intertek Electrical Medical Equipment. You will never guess where their home office is. Google is your friend.
Andre Lacroix, Chief Executive Officer, Intertek Group PLC
33 Cavendish Square London,
W1G 0PS United Kingdom - Number of employees 45,092
You will never guess what Intertek's main gig is...
Intertek Group PLC offers product inspection services. The Company tests textiles, toys, petroleum, chemicals, electronics, building materials, and agricultural products. Intertek inspects products for safety to governments, exporters, and importers, as well as certifies that import duties are declared and paid.
That's all folks.
https://www.intertek.com/about/ - I counted 47 offices in UK
Re: Sticky: Phillips Respironics recent recall notice discussion thread
Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 8:55 am
by Dan_McD
DMZABO wrote: ↑Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:12 pm
Ok so I went into my dreamstation 1 bi/pap . I removed the foam like the Australian bloke in his video. Put it back together and the machine went into choo choo train mode . Meaning i couldn’t even keep my mask on. My usual settings are 17 in 15 out.
I thought it would just stay at the same level but with a slight increase Do to the foam blockage not being there. So I put a roll medical gauze into the 2 areas where the foam was before. And man did this help out tremendously. It was Almost as if I didn’t pull the cancer causing foams out. (no really this surprised me) But then it dawned on me is the gauze susceptible to a mold of some kind? Anyone have any thoughts on this please ?
Just a suggestion. Don't put anything where the foam was and lower your usual settings by 2 or 3 cm and see how that works.
Re: Sticky: Phillips Respironics recent recall notice discussion thread
Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 1:12 pm
by DMZABO
Dan_McD wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 8:55 am
DMZABO wrote: ↑Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:12 pm
Ok so I went into my dreamstation 1 bi/pap . I removed the foam like the Australian bloke in his video. Put it back together and the machine went into choo choo train mode . Meaning i couldn’t even keep my mask on. My usual settings are 17 in 15 out.
I thought it would just stay at the same level but with a slight increase Do to the foam blockage not being there. So I put a roll medical gauze into the 2 areas where the foam was before. And man did this help out tremendously. It was Almost as if I didn’t pull the cancer causing foams out. (no really this surprised me) But then it dawned on me is the gauze susceptible to a mold of some kind? Anyone have any thoughts on this please ?
Just a suggestion. Don't put anything where the foam was and lower your usual settings by 2 or 3 cm and see how that works.
First off love that ride! And yes I went back in there today and dug out the medical gauze pads.(last night was the first night in use and it left me with a weird taste in my mouth/chest. Spooked me out?) And I didn’t put anything else in there just as you suggested. It seems to be just fine without anything. And yes I was going to dial down those numbers too. I’m not as good as a lot of you hoseheads are with tuning in my numbers. Also I bought a laptop to try and do the Oscar thing. But I’m no good with anything with Windows. I went to download it from this form and something about it won’t let me do that because Oscar isn’t a protected app or something like that. But I’d like to get help with my sleep numbers and what not. I need to get a friend over to help me go around this windows crap. I have been using an iPad for ages and just don’t know what I’m doing with the windows. But as soon as I get this computer up I’d like to share my info with you all and get some advice. No doctor can do more than people who actually live with these sleep apnea’s . Well at least as far as I’m concerned. Besides these doctors won’t even see you in their offices now because of the covid concern? That’s a bunch of b.s. but he’ll gladly take $35 bucks for a zoom visit? I’d rather come here for my help. sorry for being long winded but I do appreciate your answer and help. T. Y.
Re: Sticky: Phillips Respironics recent recall notice discussion thread
Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 1:35 pm
by Dan_McD
DMZABO wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 1:12 pm
Dan_McD wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 8:55 am
DMZABO wrote: ↑Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:12 pm
Ok so I went into my dreamstation 1 bi/pap . I removed the foam like the Australian bloke in his video. Put it back together and the machine went into choo choo train mode . Meaning i couldn’t even keep my mask on. My usual settings are 17 in 15 out.
I thought it would just stay at the same level but with a slight increase Do to the foam blockage not being there. So I put a roll medical gauze into the 2 areas where the foam was before. And man did this help out tremendously. It was Almost as if I didn’t pull the cancer causing foams out. (no really this surprised me) But then it dawned on me is the gauze susceptible to a mold of some kind? Anyone have any thoughts on this please ?
Just a suggestion. Don't put anything where the foam was and lower your usual settings by 2 or 3 cm and see how that works.
First off love that ride! And yes I went back in there today and dug out the medical gauze pads.(last night was the first night in use and it left me with a weird taste in my mouth/chest. Spooked me out?) And I didn’t put anything else in there just as you suggested. It seems to be just fine without anything. And yes I was going to dial down those numbers too. I’m not as good as a lot of you hoseheads are with tuning in my numbers. Also I bought a laptop to try and do the Oscar thing. But I’m no good with anything with Windows. I went to download it from this form and something about it won’t let me do that because Oscar isn’t a protected app or something like that. But I’d like to get help with my sleep numbers and what not. I need to get a friend over to help me go around this windows crap. I have been using an iPad for ages and just don’t know what I’m doing with the windows. But as soon as I get this computer up I’d like to share my info with you all and get some advice. No doctor can do more than people who actually live with these sleep apnea’s . Well at least as far as I’m concerned. Besides these doctors won’t even see you in their offices now because of the covid concern? That’s a bunch of b.s. but he’ll gladly take $35 bucks for a zoom visit? I’d rather come here for my help. sorry for being long winded but I do appreciate your answer and help. T. Y.
Here is a wiki link for installation of OSCAR. When you get that flag from windows just ignore it and proceed. This link tells you about that warning and a lot of other installation info.
http://www.apneaboard.com/wiki/index.ph ... n:_Windows
Re: Sticky: Phillips Respironics recent recall notice discussion thread
Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 1:56 pm
by Dan_McD
Dan_McD wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 1:35 pm
DMZABO wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 1:12 pm
Dan_McD wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 8:55 am
DMZABO wrote: ↑Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:12 pm
Ok so I went into my dreamstation 1 bi/pap . I removed the foam like the Australian bloke in his video. Put it back together and the machine went into choo choo train mode . Meaning i couldn’t even keep my mask on. My usual settings are 17 in 15 out.
I thought it would just stay at the same level but with a slight increase Do to the foam blockage not being there. So I put a roll medical gauze into the 2 areas where the foam was before. And man did this help out tremendously. It was Almost as if I didn’t pull the cancer causing foams out. (no really this surprised me) But then it dawned on me is the gauze susceptible to a mold of some kind? Anyone have any thoughts on this please ?
Just a suggestion. Don't put anything where the foam was and lower your usual settings by 2 or 3 cm and see how that works.
First off love that ride! And yes I went back in there today and dug out the medical gauze pads.(last night was the first night in use and it left me with a weird taste in my mouth/chest. Spooked me out?) And I didn’t put anything else in there just as you suggested. It seems to be just fine without anything. And yes I was going to dial down those numbers too. I’m not as good as a lot of you hoseheads are with tuning in my numbers. Also I bought a laptop to try and do the Oscar thing. But I’m no good with anything with Windows. I went to download it from this form and something about it won’t let me do that because Oscar isn’t a protected app or something like that. But I’d like to get help with my sleep numbers and what not. I need to get a friend over to help me go around this windows crap. I have been using an iPad for ages and just don’t know what I’m doing with the windows. But as soon as I get this computer up I’d like to share my info with you all and get some advice. No doctor can do more than people who actually live with these sleep apnea’s . Well at least as far as I’m concerned. Besides these doctors won’t even see you in their offices now because of the covid concern? That’s a bunch of b.s. but he’ll gladly take $35 bucks for a zoom visit? I’d rather come here for my help. sorry for being long winded but I do appreciate your answer and help. T. Y.
Here is a wiki link for installation of OSCAR. When you get that flag from windows just ignore it and proceed. This link tells you about that warning and a lot of other installation info.
http://www.apneaboard.com/wiki/index.ph ... n:_Windows
If you don't know how to change the pressure settings on your Dreamstation, you need to be able to get into the clinicians settings. Here is another link to download the 'Clinicians Settings Manual'. You need to follow the instructions on the link and then download the manual for the "Dreamstation APAP" or Auto.
https://www.apneaboard.com/adjust-cpap- ... manual#TWO
Re: Sticky: Phillips Respironics recent recall notice discussion thread
Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 2:31 pm
by DaveS_
I am going to remove my foam today, only thing I wonder about is was this foam intended to reduce noise or does it act as a filter also? I know I have a fliter that I change, but does this foam filter as well? will I be reducing the flitering of the air by removing it?
My insurance provider BC/BS told me there's nothing I can do, floow DME instructions to go register the unit and wait. I find that unacceptable, and as I cannot afford to buy a resmed, I have no choice but to discontinue therapy, use the dreamstation, or buy my own. Only solution is to remove the foam.
Re: Sticky: Phillips Respironics recent recall notice discussion thread
Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:05 pm
by Dan_McD
DaveS_ wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 2:31 pm
I am going to remove my foam today, only thing I wonder about is was this foam intended to reduce noise or does it act as a filter also? I know I have a fliter that I change, but does this foam filter as well? will I be reducing the flitering of the air by removing it?
My insurance provider BC/BS told me there's nothing I can do, floow DME instructions to go register the unit and wait. I find that unacceptable, and as I cannot afford to buy a resmed, I have no choice but to discontinue therapy, use the dreamstation, or buy my own. Only solution is to remove the foam.
From what we can tell, most importantly from the manufacturer Philips, the foam disintegrates, puts off gasses and VOC's and is unhealthy to the user. There are some commenters in this thread that we, or the FDA, etc. are over-reacting. We, or others, did not promote the recall. The Manufacturer made the recall, so if we do what is best for our health it is to take the Recaller's recommendation and stop using the unhealthy machine they manufactured. I would register your machine even if it is just a formality, but it could be a useful commodity.
Given your above list options I would remove the unhealthy foam and continue to use the machine. The foam, while air goes through it into your lungs, it is not a filter. If only that were true, it would be replaceable and we all would not be in this mess. You might need to adjust your pressure settings but I would try it first before resetting. I have no experience with the foam removal because I opted for a different machine. There are posters on here that have removed the foam and there are several YouTube videos on "How-To" God Bless.
Re: Sticky: Phillips Respironics recent recall notice discussion thread
Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:25 pm
by Boyce
Dan_McD wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 8:55 am
Just a suggestion. Don't put anything where the foam was and lower your usual settings by 2 or 3 cm and see how that works.
Removal of the foam is not a reason to lower the pressure. The machine has pressure sensors that will maintain the correct fan speed. Of course, if you damage one of the pressure sensors in taking the foam out, the machine will not work properly at any setting.