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4betterO2 wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 06, 2021 1:53 pm

In the Dreamstation and the System One machines, is all the foam only in the main machine, or is there any at all in the humidifier?

If there were dangerous foam within the humidifier they would also likely be a part of the recall.

Also, is the cancer risk worse when using the machine's humidifier, or only when the ambient air itself has high humidity?

The recall notifications haven't made any claims about increased toxicity risks because of humidity. They have claimed that high humidity can be a contributing factor toward the degradation of the foam.

The built in humidifiers are downstream to the foam and likely not a contributing factor.

kbh209 wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 06, 2021 2:02 pm

If you can get a Resmed Airsense 10 AutoSet now, get it now. I was reading on CPAP DOT COM's website today that it's going to be about a year before Dreamstation 2s are going to enter the market , due to foam gate, as we're calling it, along with the world wide silicon chip shortage and our shipping issues. I suspect that the ResMed 11s supply and demand will be affected by the chip shortage and shipping issues.

Thanks, this seems prudent. Particularly since it doesn't look like the 11 is going to be really revolutionary. Quieter and smaller aren't must haves for me. I have an appointment for the DME to examine my machine in an hour, I'll talk to them then about getting the 10.

kbh209 wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 05, 2021 11:40 pm

The Airsense 10 (you want the AutoSet) is the best machine out there right now.

and has been since it was introduced, and before it, the S9 autoset, since it was introduced in 2010.

The only advantage that Philips Respironics machines have ever had is that they're cheaper.

never mind
have a nice day

Your photos show the air output, not the intake.

My photos showed the intake, which goes over foam along the entire pathway.

KingSnore wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 06, 2021 2:15 pm

kbh209 wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 06, 2021 2:02 pm

If you can get a Resmed Airsense 10 AutoSet now, get it now. I was reading on CPAP DOT COM's website today that it's going to be about a year before Dreamstation 2s are going to enter the market , due to foam gate, as we're calling it, along with the world wide silicon chip shortage and our shipping issues. I suspect that the ResMed 11s supply and demand will be affected by the chip shortage and shipping issues.

Thanks, this seems prudent. Particularly since it doesn't look like the 11 is going to be really revolutionary. Quieter and smaller aren't must haves for me. I have an appointment for the DME to examine my machine in an hour, I'll talk to them then about getting the 10.

I watched a review of the ResMed 11 and there doesn't seem to be much difference over the 10 other than the touch screen. The 10 is an excellent machine. I used a Dreamstation 1 for almost 3 years and the ResMed 10 is a far superior machine. The user menu and the clinicians settings menu is much more user friendly. The ResMed is also quieter. I could go on, but you get my point.

While there may or may not be foam adjacent to the humidifier in the Dreamstation, Philips does refer to the humidifier as included in the malfunctioning machine/s equipment base. There are many other Philips machines that are included in the recall and the placement of foam and its relationship to the humidifier is unknown to the general public.

This is a quote on one of Philips recall documents.

To date, Philips Respironics has received several complaints regarding the presence of black debris/particles within the airpath circuit (extending from the device outlet, humidifier, tubing, and mask). Philips also has received reports of headache, upper airway irritation, cough, chest pressure and sinus infection.

The air intake does not either go through or across the foam. The foam is strictly for sound proofing and rests on the bottom of the machine at least an inch or more from the intake channel.

I took my oldest (2010) machine apart. I disagree with your assessment. The foam is the floor of the air pathway. Air passes over (not through) on the way to the fan.

My oldest machine, which has spent lots of time in my car trunk as my travel machine, looked fine until I picked up the foam and tried to get some dust off. It was then very clear the foam was crumbling along the edges (worst was near the humidifier and the front edge of the machine). Car trunk heat may have accelerated that deterioration. I can leave the foam out. That means the air path to the fan is not sealed, and dust may be drawn in from other than the dust filter, but that seems better for me (maybe not the fan).

I’m not taking apart my newer machine, for fear to make the foam worse. It has been in climate controlled circumstances its whole life, so is not as likely to be deteriorating. I’ve put a bio filter at the hose.

I registered my dreamstation ASV today online and my DME said they will be he ones that handle Philips. I told them I dont want anything Philips after all this which they understood. Its astonishing how it feels to become reliant upon something and how it feels to be told to immediately stop using it, especially where complex apnea and the risk involved. Im counting my blessings thus far. I does pain me to know how many folks are straight out of pocket for these. My heart goes out to you all.

tisket wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 07, 2021 10:49 am

Your photos show the air output, not the intake.

My photos showed the intake, which goes over foam along the entire pathway.

yes...I believe you are right about my photos being of the output and not the intake...my bad
thanks for setting me straight

SleepyCPAP wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 07, 2021 11:52 am

The air intake does not either go through or across the foam. The foam is strictly for sound proofing and rests on the bottom of the machine at least an inch or more from the intake channel.

I took my oldest (2010) machine apart. I disagree with your assessment. The foam is the floor of the air pathway. Air passes over (not through) on the way to the fan.

My oldest machine, which has spent lots of time in my car trunk as my travel machine, looked fine until I picked up the foam and tried to get some dust off. It was then very clear the foam was crumbling along the edges (worst was near the humidifier and the front edge of the machine). Car trunk heat may have accelerated that deterioration. I can leave the foam out. That means the air path to the fan is not sealed, and dust may be drawn in from other than the dust filter, but that seems better for me (maybe not the fan).

I’m not taking apart my newer machine, for fear to make the foam worse. It has been in climate controlled circumstances its whole life, so is not as likely to be deteriorating. I’ve put a bio filter at the hose.

yes...you are correct...I was wrong on my assessment of the situation with the intake and output..thanks for setting me straight
I'm still glad I took the foam out.

SirGaspAlot wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:36 pm

I registered my dreamstation ASV today online and my DME said they will be he ones that handle Philips. I told them I dont want anything Philips after all this which they understood. Its astonishing how it feels to become reliant upon something and how it feels to be told to immediately stop using it, especially where complex apnea and the risk involved. Im counting my blessings thus far. I does pain me to know how many folks are straight out of pocket for these. My heart goes out to you all.

Who should pay for replacement machines from another manufacturer if not the patient? Why should insurance companies pay if the machines don't meet the criteria for replacement? Do you really expect Philips to supply a machine from another manufacturer to replace your Philips CPAP machine? We don't even know yet what the repair plan is. Maybe in the end everyone gets a new machine from Philips.

Yes, I ordered a Resmed Airsense 10 autoset with my own money. It is partly about the recall and partly from reading all the reports here about the Resmed Airsense 10 simply being a better product. My AHI is decent, but not great, with the Dreamstation even after lots of playing with the settings. I am still tired every day even with eight hours in bed.

If it weren't for users of SoClean and other ozone sanitizers, do you think this recall would have ever occurred? Would have Philips or users for that matter taken notice of minute bits of foam particulates or given thought about off-gassing VOC's. Companies generally don't go looking for problems unless there is enough substantive evidence to do so ($$$). The reporting of foam bits was particularly minimal and easily could have been ignored as too infrequent to investigate. The accelerated degradation from ozone seems to have maybe been a contributing factor to examine what was occurring with the foam and prompt a further look.

Should we curse the users of SoClean for the recall that has been so disruptive or thank them for uncovering a potential health risk ?

irish80122 wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 05, 2021 10:01 pm

Hi all, new person here, though I did force myself to read through all the posts.

I see a lot of folks jumped on the Airsense 10, and I likely will as well, but is anyone still waiting on the Airsense 11? Is there much reason to? The videos I have seen don't make it look that that big of an upgrade, but I thought i would ak about it before plopping down the cash.

Also, my wife (who also has a Dreamstation, lucky us) is thinking about getting a HDM Z2 as the replacement. Anyone here have experience using it as a daily driver... at least until Phillips figures things out?

I appreciate all of you more than you know!

It's a tough call. I'm thinking about it myself. From the reports I've seen there isn't much difference functionally other than a touch screen, although appearance seems different. A DME did tell me the Airsense 11 will have a smaller water chamber. If that's true, it could push me to the 10 because with my Dreamstation I'd empty a tank in about 5 hours.

The main advantage I see to waiting for the 11 is the longer time parts, such as water chambers, are available. It seems to me it starts getting harder to find those parts when a machine is two generations old. So, when the 12 comes out it may start getting harder to find water chambers for the 10. I'm back to using my old M-series machine now, and I've not been able to find any left over water chambers for it anywhere. I have two I still have that I could clean up for use, and that's it. An 11 may give an extra 5 years or so of easy part replacement.

On the other hand, as others have pointed out, the 11s may be in short supply due to chip shortages and other constraints. In addition, the longer you wait, the more people are going to learn about the recall and start buying up inventory. It might be buy now or have difficulty getting later.

Maybe this isn't news to anybody, but my DME today told me Phillips asked them for a list of their patients who actively use their machines. It seems they are planning to prioritize so that active patients will get their units replaced/repaired before those who have not been consistently using them. She didn't know if they also asked for a ranking of patient severity to prioritize that way as well.

HairyReasoner wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 07, 2021 7:01 pm

irish80122 wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 05, 2021 10:01 pm

...
I see a lot of folks jumped on the Airsense 10
...

It's a tough call. I'm thinking about it myself.
...

I made the call the day of the recall announcement. Probably the last time any of us will see a new machine on sale for some time. Price went up another $300 a few days later. At least you can still find one today if you want one.

My pressure is down 1-2 cm consistently on this machine. Only drawback is the 24v converter needed for battery powered operation but I'm over that too. It's looking like Resmed for the long haul. Maybe keep a repaired PRS1 on hand for emergencies or CPAP curious guests