CPAPtalk.com

All of the talk and action around suing Philips really annoys me. There are insufficient facts to do so. At some point Philips became aware of the problem. They researched further ... this takes time. One person (or many) reporting particles does not mean there's a defect on Philips' end. Especially in the world of ozone cleaners! So they did their due diligence and became aware of an issue, and took rather unprecedented steps to address it. I don't recall a time where a manufacturer not only recalled everything going back so far, but also stated they are suspending manufacturing in order to concentrate on fixing machine as fast as possible.

It's OK to be worried about cancer causing outgassing, but before you panic fully (or if you are disposed to, maybe this will make your life far more troublesome):

• https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer- ... medication
• https://www.epa.gov/ground-water-and-dr ... a-and-pfos
• https://www.epa.gov/ground-water-and-dr ... king-water

Oh, by the way:

• https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/ ... m?ID=72581
• https://24x7mag.com/standards/fda-updat ... p-devices/
• https://medicaldevices.icij.org/events/ ... se-10-cpap

Many of these recalls are less important, that's not my point. My point is that it's common to discover problems post release. It simply happens. The alternate would be to have to test the devices for literally many years under simulated usage, and that still would miss things while depriving consumers of new and better treatment.

Are you diabetic? Check that metformin recall. I don't think there are any manufacturers that haven't been impacted. Your choice? You could go to the non-extended release version of the drug and have to take it many times a day, or you can hope/rely on the fact that there is now increased sensitivity to the presence of NDMA in many, many drugs (not just diabetes).

All of the advertising for lawsuits around such things pre-condition many people to think "they should have known better". That's just not how science works. (PS, non-science is worse, so don't read this the wrong way.) The lawsuits serve exactly one purpose: Make lawyers rich. Go ahead, sign up for one ... let me know what you get.

That's not to say all lawsuits are wrong, but like ANYTHING else in our society, following the money is KEY to understanding what is really happening. To that end, I will acknowledge you can say the same about Philips potentially ignoring known defects, but again, there's no evidence to that fact, and I haven't seen anything to make me think so.

Just my $.02

TL;DR - don't stop using your Philips CPAP if you don't have an alternative. Use an AB filter in the interim. Get your machine fixed, or get a different make (that is up to you). Your machine does not know about the recall, so it isn't going to spontaneously start releasing particles in the next day or two while you order and receive a filter. PS if you are an Amazon prime member you can get one very fast if you look for it. Though they ARE disappearing, and probably getting more expensive since Amazon prices by demand and supply....

**** This is only my own personal viewpoint and not necessarily a recommendation as to what others may believe or want to do.****

For those concerned about offgassing of the small amount of foam used in a CPAP, how about that big mattress you sleep on every night?
https://www.webmd.com/sleep-disorders/n ... -you-sleep

Consider also furniture in the rest of your home. Air conditioning units will contain foam for insulation and sound dampening. Foam is used in your car for seat cushions and dash padding. Remember how the interior windows of a new car hazed. Plastic and foam offgassing caused the haze.
The off gassing of foam is initially greatest when new and tapers off fairly rapidly as the foam further cures and stabilizes.

The report Phillips issued conveys a very low percentage of foam particulates that have been found ("low complaint rate (0.03% in 2020)") and no one knows for sure if it may have been the result of inappropriate cleaning methods that may have caused the complaints. Over the course of 50 years of repairing and tinkering with all sorts of electronics and household items that have foam contained withing for various reasons, it seems that it takes foam quite a long time to degrade to the point of crumbling or getting mushy if in a normal household environment. I just recently replace some black foam that had been used for AC window sealing that was better than 15 years old that was in direct sunlight and did just start to show bits coming off when rubbed.
I do realize all foams may be different and may have different rates of degradation. I for one am not going to panic and discontinue use of my current DreamStation despite the Phillips notification until I see a better clarification to the remediation Phillips may have.

As far as particulate pieces that may potentially break off from the foam, I'm playing around with a filter of sorts that is affixed to the air tube in the water tank. The hose mounted filters are not intended for a heated hose and would need to be jury-rigged to fit. A pic of the rough concept using a nylon stocking rubber banded to the air tube which would capture small bits. Over my lifetime I've likely inhaled/ingested much worse than what my CPAP might push out.

As mentioned adding an inline bacterial filter is an option and in fact Phillips is recommending it to those users who are on life sustaining ventilators.

People who are unaware of this product...it goes between the humidifier outlet and the long hose.
You lose any heated hose capabilities if you do this but that isn't necessarily the end of the world. The main reasons for heated hose use....comfort and rain out prevention. Both can be handled with various options without needing the electrical heating.
So it is an option and while we don't know just how much protection it offers...sure wouldn't hurt.

Bear in mind that if your machine has a setting for inline filter use...it needs to be enabled.

"The sky is falling. The sky is falling.
We must go and tell the king."
Apparently, nobody told the FDA . . .

Goofproof wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:48 am

I'm not worrying much, as long as they don't use use asbestos to make the replacement patch. We bathed in brake dust. Jim
. . .

It's probably what did in Steve McQueen.
Hi pre-celeb job was in a brake shop.

khauser wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:32 am

Just my $.02

THANK you!

chunkyfrog wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:44 am

"The sky is falling. The sky is falling.
We must go and tell the king."
Apparently, nobody told the FDA . . .

https://www.fda.gov/safety/recalls-mark ... ement-foam

Resmed statement on the front page of their website:

https://www.resmed.com/en-us/other-manu ... call-2021/

Of note:

Is ResMed affected by the other manufacturer’s June 2021 recall?

No. ResMed devices are not subject to the other manufacturer’s June 2021 recall and are safe for patients to use.

Are ResMed devices safe to use?

Yes, all ResMed devices are safe to use and are not subject to the other manufacturer’s June 2021 recall. Patient safety is ResMed’s most important goal. We have not observed the issues that the other manufacturer is reporting with its devices; ResMed devices use different material.

jimbud wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:19 am

zorki1c wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:14 am

Seems interesting that Phillips is announcing the recall just as a new machine come out that isn’t affected

CEO Frans van Houten said Philips is the largest maker of such machines, and between three and four million affected sleep apnea machines and ventilators would be recalled.

"We're going to put all our capacity to focus entirely on replacing and repairing these units," he said in a call. He said the process would likely take a year.

That "has a consequence that we will not be able to serve new customers, so there's going to be a shortage in the field."

CEOs do not make statements like that to increase new machine sales.

JPB

CEOs do not flush $600 million for precautionary measures. The recall is expected to cost Philips a whopping 500 million Euros, or about $606 million, according to the company.

Sea Papper wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:52 am

by Sea Papper » Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:52 pm

Did you miss my point?

JPB

jimbud wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:23 pm

Sea Papper wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:52 am

by Sea Papper » Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:52 pm

Did you miss my point?

JPB

You needed to ask?

I just got off the Philip’s site registering my machines. I have 3 dreamstations. I had a black one and my wife kept on waiting to throw it away so I finally give in. She is on vacation so I can’t speak with her that is a good thing for her. Anyhow the machine that I was using started making noise so I bought a dreamstation 2. I am glad I got one because I am on oxygen. I have to find my iPad I can’t see on this phone.

Dog Slobber wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:30 pm

jimbud wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:23 pm

Sea Papper wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:52 am

by Sea Papper » Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:52 pm

Did you miss my point?

JPB

You needed to ask?

<snerk>

khauser wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:32 am

before you panic fully

Grumpy48 wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:34 am

Over my lifetime I've likely inhaled/ingested much worse than what my CPAP might push out.

Wow! I leave the house for a half-day and reasonable people show up. What's this world coming to??

I don't understand the rampant speculation. We don't know what Philips knew, when they knew it, or the data on which they based their decision. It will come out, likely because of lawsuits.