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Posted: **Sun May 07, 2023 11:28 am**

tisket wrote: ↑
Sun May 07, 2023 11:19 am
So they did not require you to send the "evidence" machine back to get the replacements? Interesting.

The one I'm keeping (out of three) I did not request a replacement for. Haven't decided if I'll bother sending them back anything for these other two. Maybe I'll spend the next 22 months deciding and see how it goes

The PRS1 machines are not serviceable; they say so themselves. And their stated reason for return is not to dispose of evidence, but to ensure proper disposal. I have e-waste disposal available to me like anyone else and I call BS on their reason. There's a note in there about possibly being billed if the old ones are not returned. I guess they'll be more on top of billing people like any other medical provider.

Posted: **Sun May 07, 2023 6:44 pm**

tisket wrote: ↑
Sun May 07, 2023 9:46 am

Has anyone gotten a replacement machine this way, with no doctors or scrips involved? If so maybe I will make the attempt. I certainly don't want to go getting a former doctor (that I left for good reason) involved, and the $50 offer is ludicrous. If they are going to send me a new Dreamstation 2, it might be worth it - but I would probably just store it for a few years to make sure there is no recall on that.

Yes. After faxing the prescription, following up with a phone call (per their request), and them contacting my doctor: I learned from this thread about the "auto" option. I checked the option, and my replacement came with 4 to 20 settings.

Posted: **Tue May 09, 2023 10:51 am**

Again: 4-20 is not a "setting".
It is WIDE OPEN--minimum to maximum, and not very effective--or comfortable.
Luckily, the clinical manuals are available (and FREE) online,
and the patient can tighten the range as needed.

Posted: **Tue May 09, 2023 11:18 am**

So if you do this for a System 1 they send you refurbished DS1 that had the dangerous foam in it? Hmm.

Already have three Airsense 10's (including one that turns itself off at random) not sure I want a refurbished DS1 in the closet also. Might want the System 1 for products liability evidence if I get sick.

Posted: **Tue May 09, 2023 12:48 pm**

chunkyfrog wrote: ↑
Tue May 09, 2023 10:51 am
Again: 4-20 is not a "setting".
It is WIDE OPEN--minimum to maximum, and not very effective--or comfortable.
Luckily, the clinical manuals are available (and FREE) online,
and the patient can tighten the range as needed.

Why wouldn’t you want an Auto PAP machine to have access to the full operating range? Isn’t it going to determine the needed pressure and deliver that? I don’t understand why it’s not effective or comfortable. Thanks in advance for your response!

Posted: **Tue May 09, 2023 2:40 pm**

amenite wrote: ↑
Sun May 07, 2023 11:28 am

tisket wrote: ↑
Sun May 07, 2023 11:19 am
So they did not require you to send the "evidence" machine back to get the replacements? Interesting.
There's a note in there about possibly being billed if the old ones are not returned. I guess they'll be more on top of billing people like any other medical provider.

I don’t see what Philips could possibly bill someone for. A “used (and formerly defective) DS-1 — which is no longer manufactured?” After they knowingly have exposed someone to possible lethal contamination and recalled these machines?

How do you come up with a dollar value for these used pieces of junk that they are sending out?

Philips took the cheap and dirty route to settle a recall. They took random used machines, supposedly fixed them, and sent them out to different random people who weren’t the original owners. Do we know if they even thoroughly cleaned them? A proper recall would be to send only new machines.

This has been blunder after blunder on the part of Philips. You did the right thing and didn’t return their trash.

Philips insults us with the way they’ve handled this recall. You did the right thing.

Posted: **Tue May 09, 2023 6:22 pm**

AEC wrote: ↑
Tue May 09, 2023 12:48 pm

chunkyfrog wrote: ↑
Tue May 09, 2023 10:51 am
Again: 4-20 is not a "setting".
It is WIDE OPEN--minimum to maximum, and not very effective--or comfortable.
Luckily, the clinical manuals are available (and FREE) online,
and the patient can tighten the range as needed.
Why wouldn’t you want an Auto PAP machine to have access to the full operating range? Isn’t it going to determine the needed pressure and deliver that? I don’t understand why it’s not effective or comfortable. Thanks in advance for your response!

When you start from nearly a dead stop, it takes time to get up to the pressure
that is needed to stop an apnea.
If you need more than 6 or 7 cm, you missed stopping the apnea.
I usually need 11 or 12 cm--starting at 9.2 gets my airway opened up
WHEN I NEED IT
Not every race is a drag race--run strictly for acceleration.
The cpap is not built for that kind of abuse--nor is the human body.

Posted: **Tue May 09, 2023 8:27 pm**

chunkyfrog wrote: ↑
Tue May 09, 2023 6:22 pm

AEC wrote: ↑
Tue May 09, 2023 12:48 pm

chunkyfrog wrote: ↑
Tue May 09, 2023 10:51 am
Again: 4-20 is not a "setting".
It is WIDE OPEN--minimum to maximum, and not very effective--or comfortable.
Luckily, the clinical manuals are available (and FREE) online,
and the patient can tighten the range as needed.
Why wouldn’t you want an Auto PAP machine to have access to the full operating range? Isn’t it going to determine the needed pressure and deliver that? I don’t understand why it’s not effective or comfortable. Thanks in advance for your response!
When you start from nearly a dead stop, it takes time to get up to the pressure
that is needed to stop an apnea.
If you need more than 6 or 7 cm, you missed stopping the apnea.
I usually need 11 or 12 cm--starting at 9.2 gets my airway opened up
WHEN I NEED IT
Not every race is a drag race--run strictly for acceleration.
The cpap is not built for that kind of abuse--nor is the human body.

So are you saying that if I have the range set from 4-20 cm, and the machine detects that I need 11 cm, it will drop back to 4 between breaths? I don’t think that’s correct. ResMed machines have an option to adjust Expiratory Pressure Release, but I think the max is like 3 cm.

Posted: **Tue May 09, 2023 10:10 pm**

If you go a while without an apnea, the machine will drop down--
who knows how far--and may not be ready for the next event.
If it worked like you think, there would be no reason to make it adjustable.
Many people find it difficult to get enough air to breathe comfortably at 4 cm.
When comparing apap machines with single pressure cpaps,
it is possible to make the apaps look bad by leaving them at 4-20.
In a word: CHEATING.

Posted: **Wed May 10, 2023 6:24 am**

Got it. Thank you.

Posted: **Tue May 16, 2023 4:41 pm**

amenite wrote: ↑
Sun May 07, 2023 11:28 am

tisket wrote: ↑
Sun May 07, 2023 11:19 am
So they did not require you to send the "evidence" machine back to get the replacements? Interesting.
The one I'm keeping (out of three) I did not request a replacement for. Haven't decided if I'll bother sending them back anything for these other two. Maybe I'll spend the next 22 months deciding and see how it goes The PRS1 machines are not serviceable; they say so themselves. And their stated reason for return is not to dispose of evidence, but to ensure proper disposal. I have e-waste disposal available to me like anyone else and I call BS on their reason. There's a note in there about possibly being billed if the old ones are not returned. I guess they'll be more on top of billing people like any other medical provider.

You are allowed to keep you recalled DS1 machines if you register the serial numbers on a Philips site (Preservation Registry) that was set up for those who want to personally preserve them for evidence of a current or possible future claim. No time limit here. In the court agreement (Interim Preservation Order dated Jan. 11, 2022 ), where Philips agreed to set this site up for DS1s, they noted they had not instructed owners to return the System Ones and so only set up the site to register DS1s, not System One machines. Based on this Philips can't bill anyone for holding onto a recalled DS1 device that is registered and they would be unlikely to try to bill anyone for the System Ones since they already told the court they were not collecting them.

What is interesting is that the instructions that came with the DS2 sent to replace my older System One contradicted what Philips stated in the court order as they asked for a return of the System One in the same way as they did my registered DS1s. Contradicts what they agreed to and stated in the court order. You can search for and find all the above on-line.

Posted: **Tue May 16, 2023 5:11 pm**

Lane101 wrote: ↑
Tue May 16, 2023 4:41 pm

amenite wrote: ↑
Sun May 07, 2023 11:28 am

tisket wrote: ↑
Sun May 07, 2023 11:19 am
So they did not require you to send the "evidence" machine back to get the replacements? Interesting.
The one I'm keeping (out of three) I did not request a replacement for. Haven't decided if I'll bother sending them back anything for these other two. Maybe I'll spend the next 22 months deciding and see how it goes The PRS1 machines are not serviceable; they say so themselves. And their stated reason for return is not to dispose of evidence, but to ensure proper disposal. I have e-waste disposal available to me like anyone else and I call BS on their reason. There's a note in there about possibly being billed if the old ones are not returned. I guess they'll be more on top of billing people like any other medical provider.
You are allowed to keep you recalled DS1 machines if you register the serial numbers on a Philips site (Preservation Registry) that was set up for those who want to personally preserve them for evidence of a current or possible future claim. No time limit here. In the court agreement (Interim Preservation Order dated Jan. 11, 2022 ), where Philips agreed to set this site up for DS1s, they noted they had not instructed owners to return the System Ones and so only set up the site to register DS1s, not System One machines. Based on this Philips can't bill anyone for holding onto a recalled DS1 device that is registered and they would be unlikely to try to bill anyone for the System Ones since they already told the court they were not collecting them.

What is interesting is that the instructions that came with the DS2 sent to replace my older System One contradicted what Philips stated in the court order as they asked for a return of the System One in the same way as they did my registered DS1s. Contradicts what they agreed to and stated in the court order. You can search for and find all the above on-line.

Good info here, I will have to search out the actual documents and read in detail since the enclosed paperwork definitely contradicts the above about no collection. Given the haphazard nature of the whole affair I can see them getting "wires crossed". I do recall reading someplace that the cash rebates would not be issued until the old machine(s) was returned - perhaps that has been modified. And they also mentioned on the phone call i might want to consult an attorney before accepting the money which I ultimately did not accept - I chose replacements. Everyone is covering their arse, like their former executives failed to do (hence the "former" designation).

Posted: **Tue May 16, 2023 7:03 pm**

After more than a year of waiting I decided to skip both the money and a replacement machine. I found out I wouldn't get a repaired 60 Series to replace the one I have. I specifically chose that machine for camping since it runs directly off 12vdc without a converter. I'll keep the old Philips around and remove the foam if I need to. I did not request it but last week a refurbished DS1 showed up at my door. In the box was a return shipping label for my old machine. I guess I'm not surprised at this point with anything they do. I'll have to take a look at efficiency of the DS1 running on battery, but likely won't be using it since I just bought a Breas Z2 Auto and said goodbye to Philips. What a cluster.

Posted: **Wed May 24, 2023 7:14 pm**

carojae wrote: ↑
Thu May 04, 2023 12:05 am
Thank you so much beautifuldreamer. I will call them again tomorrow or maybe monday, hehe.
I can't stand the delays; it seems like it's part of their protocol. I don't like to be a jerk.

Thank you for answering. I love that machine over my present one. It works so much better.

Jim

Jim,
Did you contact Philips and were you successful? After I got one of my three system ones replaced, I eased up on calling and I just checked the Portal for the status of the two that used to say a replacement was sent to DME (although never sent to DME), And they now show that each has an Order Number assigned, and is in process of shipping (but no specific date shown), which is a good sign that in the near future (maybe within the next month), I should be receiving the replacements for the other two system ones that I've been waiting patiently for . . .

Hoping you receive your replacement soon . . .

Posted: **Tue May 30, 2023 1:46 pm**

Ok I finally got my final two replacements for my system one ASV's - which came as reCertified dream station auto cpaps, because my doc updated my prescription with philips to show that i no longer require the ASV.

I am uncomfortable with the refurbished units, and will ship them back to Philips-

For those of you who wonder if the unit refurbished or is it new - the recertified ones definitely have a recertified label on the bottom of the unit and is clearly labeled as such on the the packing slip that is enclosed. And there is a special letter detailing instructions to inspect the recertifed machine to see if there is any visible pieces of black foam that had been removed . . . and to clean your device before using it but not with the So Clean types of devices-

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