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Re: Philips System One 560P Keep or Upgrade?
Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:14 pm
by Pugsy
My OSA is documented (per an in lab sleep study) about 5 times worse in REM than in non REM and I often see substantial pressure increases in what would likely be REM related sleep.
Unlike DS I have never been able to spot enough differences in anything else to maybe help me spot REM. Nothing ever changes very much on a consistent enough basis for me to think maybe that is REM related.
So that's a maybe and another YMMV situation.
Same thing could also be said of supine sleeping making OSA worse and cause a need for more pressure.
Me...I don't worry so much about it one way or the other and I just let the machine sort it out. Less work for my brain.
Re: Philips System One 560P Keep or Upgrade?
Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:18 pm
by Dog Slobber
Oooooops forgot to post the graph with the suspected REM high-lighted.
- REM_perhaps.png (266.46 KiB) Viewed 573 times
Re: Philips System One 560P Keep or Upgrade?
Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:00 pm
by beardedone303
Dog Slobber wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:18 pm
Oooooops forgot to post the graph with the suspected REM high-lighted.
REM_perhaps.png
I am blown away by your ability to read that graph! Thank you so much for your insight. Good to hear that it seems like I'm getting restful sleep. I do feel the difference when I'm able to use the machine regularly. I'm excited to try the auto pap feature tonight like Pugsy recommended I'll post my graph tomorrow.
When my doctor referred me to the shop to get the machine(that I now canceled my appointment), he said that he would be able to access the data and make adjustments for the machine. I'm guessing that since for now I'm sticking with my System One that I would send him either my Dream Works info or these OSCAR graphs to diagnose and then he could tell me any recommended changes?
Thanks y'all!
Re: Philips System One 560P Keep or Upgrade?
Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:41 pm
by bwexler
There appears to be a consensus here that very few "sleep" doctors actually pay any attention to the numbers other than compliance hours.
After 10 years and 4 or 5 doctors, I have received much better advice here than I received from any doctor. Pugsy helped me when I was getting started and when
I got new equipment or masks. Many others have chimed in as well.
And the folks who created Sleepyhead and Oscar can never be thanked enough.
I look at Oscar 5 or 6 times a year now and I can't remember the last time I used my overnight oximeter. but in the beginning I spent hours almost every day
trying to figure out how to tame the beast.
My primary doctors get used to providing prescriptions when I asked for them. Docs who don't comply are quickly replaced.
My goal is to minimize my dependence on the medical establishment and drugs, and learn to take care of myself.
Even if it takes me 50 years to get there I will continue my quest,
Re: Philips System One 560P Keep or Upgrade?
Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:24 pm
by beardedone303
bwexler wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:41 pm
There appears to be a consensus here that very few "sleep" doctors actually pay any attention to the numbers other than compliance hours.
After 10 years and 4 or 5 doctors, I have received much better advice here than I received from any doctor. Pugsy helped me when I was getting started and when
I got new equipment or masks. Many others have chimed in as well.
And the folks who created Sleepyhead and Oscar can never be thanked enough.
I look at Oscar 5 or 6 times a year now and I can't remember the last time I used my overnight oximeter. but in the begining I spent hours almost every day
trying to figure out how to tame the beast.
My primary doctors get used to providing prescriptions when I asked for them. Docs who don't comply are quickly replaced.
My goal is to minimize my dependence on the medical establishment and drugs, and learn to take care of myself.
Even if it takes me 50 years to get there I will continue my quest,
Thanks for that insight! I'm already seeing how helpful this forum along with the Oscar tool can be! I still plan on reaching out to my doctor to update him on my decision and to see how he's able to process my data for my records. Otherwise, I'll keep squeezing as much info from this forum as possible!
Re: Philips System One 560P Keep or Upgrade?
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:00 am
by ChicagoGranny
beardedone303 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:00 pm
then he could tell me any recommended changes?
I took the advice of cpaptalk members. Two sleep doctors were giving me poor advice. This is a common story. Doctors don't have the time to dig into individual patients' details.
Re: Philips System One 560P Keep or Upgrade?
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:14 am
by Dog Slobber
beardedone303 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:00 pm
[I'm guessing that since for now I'm sticking with my System One that I would send him either my Dream Works info or these OSCAR graphs to diagnose and then he could tell me any recommended changes?
For the most part, doctors simply do not have the time or motivation (and because of that, the experience) to look at the detail data graphs to optimize your settings. This is why the myth,
if your AHI is under 5 you're treated exists.
Re: Philips System One 560P Keep or Upgrade?
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:05 am
by beardedone303
Dog Slobber wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:18 pm
Oooooops forgot to post the graph with the suspected REM high-lighted.
REM_perhaps.png
Here is last night's graph. I wouldn't measure anything after 7:30am as I was awake in bed by then but trying to pretend be asleep LOL. I also attached a screen shot of my sleep app on my phone that measures my movement throughout the night( I keep the phone next to my pillow)
Am I right in seeing that after switching to auto CPAP mode, that the typical pressure averaged around 10.4? Also, I'm still learning difference between A flex and C flex. The description I've heard is that A is like having training wheels and C is for when you're regularly used to your machine.
I didn't notice any difference last night and feel well rested.
Re: Philips System One 560P Keep or Upgrade?
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:08 am
by beardedone303
ChicagoGranny wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:00 am
beardedone303 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:00 pm
then he could tell me any recommended changes?
I took the advice of cpaptalk members. Two sleep doctors were giving me poor advice. This is a common story. Doctors don't have the time to dig into individual patients' details.
It's sad that that is the case but I'm encouraged knowing that I at least have you all who are sharing their experience. I only wish that I would have sought out this resource six years ago!
Re: Philips System One 560P Keep or Upgrade?
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:10 am
by beardedone303
Dog Slobber wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:14 am
beardedone303 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:00 pm
[I'm guessing that since for now I'm sticking with my System One that I would send him either my Dream Works info or these OSCAR graphs to diagnose and then he could tell me any recommended changes?
For the most part, doctors simply do not have the time or motivation (and because of that, the experience) to look at the detail data graphs to optimize your settings. This is why the myth,
if your AHI is under 5 you're treated exists.
I guess that makes sense. Sad! So glad that I've found cpap talk though! I'm already learning so much and feeling more in control of my sleep and health
Re: Philips System One 560P Keep or Upgrade?
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:21 am
by Pugsy
beardedone303 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:05 am
Am I right in seeing that after switching to auto CPAP mode, that the typical pressure averaged around 10.4?
No...it's not averaging 10.4. That 10.4 is what is called a 95% number and the definition of a 95/90 % number is AT OR BELOW that number for 95% of the time. People often don't understand or know the OR BELOW part of the definition.
Your understand of C Flex vs A Flex is also incorrect.
CFlex was Respironics first version of exhale relief... AFlex was an improvement in timing over the timing of the drop during exhale than what CFlex offered. AFlex is actually a newer and better form of CFlex. Supposed to match your own respiration timing pattern better.
Now some people like one way over an other way simply because it feels better to them and that's really all that matter.
I tried CFlex. Couldn't tell it did anything at all. When I tried AFlex I found that the setting of 2 pretty much matched my own respiration pattern perfectly.
I usually just tell people to try all the settings including off that are available...and pick the one that feels the best to them and don't worry about what it is or what the number is. It's main job is to make breathing with the machine easier so you can relax and go to sleep easier and not fight the machine. None of this matters if we can't sleep.
IMHO....getting decent sleep and feeling decent is and has been my primary goal. Not good math scores or numbers.
Without sleep...none of the "numbers" matter.
Re: Philips System One 560P Keep or Upgrade?
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:55 am
by ChicagoGranny
beardedone303 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:10 am
I guess that makes sense. Sad!
Yes, but I don't see it as sad. It's resource allocation. Doctors and their infrastructure are expensive. Here, there are some heavily experienced users who, for one reason or another, have the time and desire to help. #CPAPCrowdOptimizing
Re: Philips System One 560P Keep or Upgrade?
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:10 pm
by beardedone303
Pugsy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:21 am
beardedone303 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:05 am
Am I right in seeing that after switching to auto CPAP mode, that the typical pressure averaged around 10.4?
No...it's not averaging 10.4. That 10.4 is what is called a 95% number and the definition of a 95/90 % number is AT OR BELOW that number for 95% of the time. People often don't understand or know the OR BELOW part of the definition.
Your understand of C Flex vs A Flex is also incorrect.
CFlex was Respironics first version of exhale relief... AFlex was an improvement in timing over the timing of the drop during exhale than what CFlex offered. AFlex is actually a newer and better form of CFlex. Supposed to match your own respiration timing pattern better.
Now some people like one way over an other way simply because it feels better to them and that's really all that matter.
I tried CFlex. Couldn't tell it did anything at all. When I tried AFlex I found that the setting of 2 pretty much matched my own respiration pattern perfectly.
I usually just tell people to try all the settings including off that are available...and pick the one that feels the best to them and don't worry about what it is or what the number is. It's main job is to make breathing with the machine easier so you can relax and go to sleep easier and not fight the machine. None of this matters if we can't sleep.
IMHO....getting decent sleep and feeling decent is and has been my primary goal. Not good math scores or numbers.
Without sleep...none of the "numbers" matter.
Great! I will keep my settings as is with the auto setting and Aflex at 2. I was so happy to see my AHI under 1 last night! Can't wait to start feeling the long term effects of better sleep! Thanks as always!