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Re: Time For A New Machine
Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:40 am
by Dog Slobber
MeToo wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:48 am
If your current machine is still functioning okay, I'd be inclined to wait until Resmed introduces its newest model. The Airsense 10 is long in the tooth and I suspect they'll be announcing a new machine in the not-too-distant future. That is what I am doing. I got the AIrsense 10 shortly after it came out (and the reviews were good).
This advice is often given to people contemplating a new machine. Holding out for the new mobile phone or car model is often worth it, but I don't think it's good advice for CPAP machines.
- We have no idea when the next device is coming out, medical devices have requirements they must meet and are not released on a predictable schedule.
- Early devices are likely to have issues and may not be firmware upgradable.
- We don't know if the new device will be compatible with OSCAR immediately or ever.
- ResMed's last device is not data capable, that may be attributable to its portability, but it could also be a trend away from self-managed therapy and SD Cards.
- There simply may not be sufficient features warrant waiting.
- Sometimes newer devices have undesirable changes.
Re: Time For A New Machine
Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:45 pm
by MeToo
That is a great list and post. Any of what you list might happen if you wait until the new model comes out, in which case you would still have the option of buying the older model (at a discounted price). If none of the list items are realized, then you buy the new model and have the benefit of a newer, better machine for 5+ years. I did that with the Airsense 10. I'm glad I have the A10 for my home machine and I use the S9 for my travel machine (I prefer the S9's larger carrying case with a pocket for my folders, iPad, and a magazine or two).
The issue you raise on the timeline is the key one right now, imo. Surely the now 6 year-old A10 is at the end of its life-cycle, but I've thought that for a while now. I'm guessing the A10 is still holding enough market share and that declining sales prices are offset by lower production costs. And in the meantime, Resmed's R&D dept is making tweaks and improvements to include in the Airsense 11, or whatever it will be called.
Re: Time For A New Machine
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:29 am
by tattooyu
Loooooong time site member, but I've been away for quite some time.
I'm in a similar dilemma. I've been using the S9 Autoset for 17805 hours. I probably have some time left on the old gal. I've heard that the A10 doesn't show full data on the screen like the S9 does. Is that accurate?
Re: Time For A New Machine
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:45 am
by Pugsy
tattooyu wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:29 am
I've heard that the A10 doesn't show full data on the screen like the S9 does. Is that accurate?
No...that is not true. You can get the same data the S9 offers but you do have to go one step more to a different screen.
Re: Time For A New Machine
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:50 am
by tattooyu
Pugsy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:45 am
tattooyu wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:29 am
I've heard that the A10 doesn't show full data on the screen like the S9 does. Is that accurate?
No...that is not true. You can get the same data the S9 offers but you do have to go one step more to a different screen.
Thanks, Pugsy! Nice to still see you on here!
Re: Time For A New Machine
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:12 am
by LSAT
S9 and Airsense have essentially the same features. Aside from the shape and footprint they function essentially the same.
Re: Time For A New Machine
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:25 pm
by cathyf
I'm in the same boat -- just had surgery that's going to take me to my out-of-pocket max, and thinking it might be a good idea to retire the old A10 to a backup and go with a new machine.
When I got my A10 in 2014 it was 3 weeks before the "for her" was available. I really wanted to have it, but wasn't willing to wait any longer so I went with the straight A10.
My main unhappiness with the Resmed is with the whole "flow limitation" thingy. I'm not at all sure what the machine is seeing -- some fourier transform of the pressure graph? Because my pressures at zero FL and bouncy-up-and-down-like-a-big-city-skyline look the same to me! I kind of suspect that a lot of the "zeros" that are being reported in FLs are actually "no data". Which makes the statistics (median, etc.) pretty suspect. But basically what I see is that a sustained flat-at-zero FL graph is simply "awake" while I don't go more than a few breaths without an FL spike as long as I'm asleep. It looks to me like my machine chases these phantom FLs all night, with my pressure quickly climbing to its max setting until I arouse a bit and then it drops but as soon as I go back to sleep it zooms back up. I did try to experiment by setting my max pressure quite low. What would happen is that it would stay pegged at the max all night, and I would have no events during non-REM sleep even at low pressures. While if I let the machine do what it wants it continuously hits high pressures.
So do other brand machines not get their panties in such a wad over "flow limitations" and just react to actual events? Because it sure would be nice to stay at low pressures when that's all I need...
I'm wondering if the "for her" is any different as far as chasing flow limitations.
Re: Time For A New Machine
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:41 am
by JayDee
Whatever/whenever ResMed announces the next model, I'm hoping they dump that proprietary power supply and just stick to plain ol' boring 12 volts.
-JD
Re: Time For A New Machine
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:33 am
by khauser
JayDee wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:41 am
Whatever/whenever ResMed announces the next model, I'm hoping they dump that proprietary power supply and just stick to plain ol' boring 12 volts.
-JD
There's a good reason to use 24v. Quick electricity lesson that you may or may not know. Wire size (diameter) depends on the current draw of a device. Higher current needs thicker wires. The device itself uses power, which is voltage times current and is measured in watts. Let's say the device uses 80 watts (my current cpap and my prior cpap both have 80 watt supplies). The resmed device at 24v draws a maximum of 3.3 amps. The respironics device at 12v draws a maximum of 6.6 amps.
So resmed could use a more flexible wire cable and avoid the cable overheating. The power input jack is less likely to overheat. (I've repaired many a laptop computer with that problem).
Both companies require you to use a dc power cable. The respironics cable merely has filtering, the resmed has a voltage converter as well. They can both be powered on 12v.
The downside is that the voltage converter can't be 100% efficient. I don't know the efficiency of this converter. 90% is a good approximation. That does mean that for the same power needs the resmed device will need about 10% more battery capacity.
So like everything there are tradeoffs. I'm not defending one choice over another but I'm saying it isn't as arbitrary as it may seem.
Re: Time For A New Machine
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:06 am
by jimbud
cathyf wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:25 pm
I'm in the same boat -- just had surgery that's going to take me to my out-of-pocket max, and thinking it might be a good idea to retire the old A10 to a backup and go with a new machine.
When I got my A10 in 2014 it was 3 weeks before the "for her" was available. I really wanted to have it, but wasn't willing to wait any longer so I went with the straight A10.
My main unhappiness with the Resmed is with the whole "flow limitation" thingy. I'm not at all sure what the machine is seeing -- some fourier transform of the pressure graph? Because my pressures at zero FL and bouncy-up-and-down-like-a-big-city-skyline look the same to me! I kind of suspect that a lot of the "zeros" that are being reported in FLs are actually "no data". Which makes the statistics (median, etc.) pretty suspect. But basically what I see is that a sustained flat-at-zero FL graph is simply "awake" while I don't go more than a few breaths without an FL spike as long as I'm asleep. It looks to me like my machine chases these phantom FLs all night, with my pressure quickly climbing to its max setting until I arouse a bit and then it drops but as soon as I go back to sleep it zooms back up. I did try to experiment by setting my max pressure quite low. What would happen is that it would stay pegged at the max all night, and I would have no events during non-REM sleep even at low pressures. While if I let the machine do what it wants it continuously hits high pressures.
So do other brand machines not get their panties in such a wad over "flow limitations" and just react to actual events? Because it sure would be nice to stay at low pressures when that's all I need...
I'm wondering if the "for her" is any different as far as chasing flow limitations.
Under the COMFORT settings:
RESPONSE....Soft
Works for me.
More than less.
JPB
Disclaimer:
I do not know if the older machines have this setting.
Re: Time For A New Machine
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:23 am
by Pugsy
jimbud wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:06 am
Disclaimer:
I do not know if the older machines have this setting.
Older AirSense 10 machines do NOT have it. Not sure when it changed but I have owned one of those older machines and it didn't offer soft response.
Re: Time For A New Machine
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:01 am
by JayDee
khauser wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:33 am
JayDee wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:41 am
Whatever/whenever ResMed announces the next model, I'm hoping they dump that proprietary power supply and just stick to plain ol' boring 12 volts.
-JD
So like everything there are tradeoffs. I'm not defending one choice over another but I'm saying it isn't as arbitrary as it may seem.
The biggest tradeoff to me is the ResMed proprietary power supply design. It would be nice to have a ubiquitous power supply that could be replaced "off the shelf" if forgotten, while travelling, etc.
Current events example -- I bug-out inland to get away from the coast due to the hurricane (or a wildfire out west) and in our haste, forget the ResMed power supply. ResMed's proprietary 3v sense circuit unnecessarily complicates cobbling together a "field-expedient" power-supply. Even if I could "Jethro Bodine" a solution to account for the 3v sense circuit, I'd still need to find the special barrel connector.
I can easily deal with a straightforward 12v or 24v DC requirement when the machine has a standard connector socket. In other words, "Off the shelf" components that can generally be found "today" without having to wait 3 to 5 days for the UPS truck. Just get me to the nearest Walmart, Lowes, HomeDepot, etc and (worst case) I can resort to batteries and a charger.
-JD
Re: Time For A New Machine
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:45 am
by palerider
JayDee wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:01 am
khauser wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:33 am
JayDee wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:41 am
Whatever/whenever ResMed announces the next model, I'm hoping they dump that proprietary power supply and just stick to plain ol' boring 12 volts.
-JD
So like everything there are tradeoffs. I'm not defending one choice over another but I'm saying it isn't as arbitrary as it may seem.
The biggest tradeoff to me is the ResMed proprietary power supply design. It would be nice to have a ubiquitous power supply that could be replaced "off the shelf" if forgotten, while travelling, etc.
Current events example -- I bug-out inland to get away from the coast due to the hurricane (or a wildfire out west) and in our haste, forget the ResMed power supply. ResMed's proprietary 3v sense circuit unnecessarily complicates cobbling together a "field-expedient" power-supply. Even if I could "Jethro Bodine" a solution to account for the 3v sense circuit, I'd still need to find the special barrel connector.
I can easily deal with a straightforward 12v or 24v DC requirement when the machine has a standard connector socket. In other words, "Off the shelf" components that can generally be found "today" without having to wait 3 to 5 days for the UPS truck. Just get me to the nearest Walmart, Lowes, HomeDepot, etc and (worst case) I can resort to batteries and a charger.
-JD
Respironics made their current 12v supply proprietary, so ... meh.
the main reason for 24 volts is the blower motor, it would have to be bigger, with heavier windings, to be able to perform the way it does now.
Same reason some cars are now having 48volt systems.
PS, get a spare power supply off ebay and keep it in your bug out bag.
Re: Time For A New Machine
Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:41 am
by cathyf
Ok, back up here, I realize that I have missed some important things happening in resmed land.
I got my Airsense 10 on October 11, 2014. The A10 was brand spanking new, and mine came off the assembly line just a few weeks earlier. At the time I really wanted to try the "for her" version, but that would have been at least 3 weeks on backorder. I had done my screening apnealink in May, sleep study in July, and I was really tired of messing around and having terrible sleep and the two studies had shown 79% and 80% SpO2s so I took what I could get right away.
I'm now in the market for a new machine (mine has 16,000 hours on it, and I worry about not having a backup if it fails.) Yesterday I went to my DME. It's a local small chain (I think they have 4 or 5 offices) and I picked them after my experience with Lin(don't)Care because they seemed to have more clues. The person that I talked to told me that the only difference between the for-her and the regular A10 is that the for-her is pink and the regular is black. And she kept calling it the S10 not the A10. I figured she was just ignorant (because isn't it the S9 where the for-her is just exactly the same machine except with a pink case, and the A10 for her is white with a floral design?)
But now I see here that the more modern versions of the A10 have a "soft response" option. Is "soft response" the same thing as "for her" but without the stupid choice of names that might scare off men from using an option that might help them? Or is it yet another algorithm distinct from "regular" and "for her"?
I had to compromise on my first machine, and I'd really like to get it right this time!
Re: Time For A New Machine
Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:47 am
by Pugsy
Soft response is NOT the same thing as the special for Her mode.
It doesn't make the regular autoset auto mode into the for her mode.
The for her auto adjusting algorithm mode is a totally separate algorithm and only offered in the for Her AirSense 10 AutoSet model.
The regular AirSense 10 AutoSet...has 2 modes of operation....cpap fixed mode and the Auto adjusting mode and while there is now the addition of "soft" vs "standard" response....there's more to the for her mode than just response.
The AirSense 10 AutoSet for Her model...has 3 modes of operation...
cpap fixed mode
regular auto adjusting mode
the special for her auto adjusting mode and it is more than just response oriented.