Battery solution for Breas Z2 Auto and HDM Z1 CPAP offgrid (backpacking, camping) usage

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
Jas88
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:33 am

Re: Battery solution for HDM Z1 CPAP offgrid (backpacking, camping) usage

Post by Jas88 » Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:38 pm

Thank you Hey, for the information about the Zendure battery. Sounds exactly like what I'm looking for.
I will try and see if I can order it in Europe.

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Machine: Z2 Auto Travel CPAP Machine
Additional Comments: Interested in Powerbanks for travel with my Breas Z1 (Z2) auto travel machine

Hey
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:07 pm
Location: Switzerland

Re: Battery solution for HDM Z1 CPAP offgrid (backpacking, camping) usage

Post by Hey » Sun Mar 07, 2021 8:57 am

Hi Jas88

Not sure where you live, but Zendure is actually a US based company. They sell the Supertank with worldwide shipping in the factory online shop:
https://zendure.com/collections/super-s ... /supertank

I got mine from Amazon Germany. So if you are from Europe that might be an option.

But remember, you only need a 100W Powerbank like the Zendure if you are aiming for the fastest possible recharge. If you can live with slower recharging, you can buy any USB PD Powerbank and save a lot of money.

And you also need a fast charger like this one to take full advantage:
https://zendure.com/products/superport-4

I personally went for the cheaper Baseus 100W Charger on Aliexpress:
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mKZ1Ghl

I also know that there are other 100W Powerbanks out there, so Zendure is not your only option if you want to charge as fast as possible.

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Jas88
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Re: Battery solution for HDM Z1 CPAP offgrid (backpacking, camping) usage

Post by Jas88 » Fri Mar 12, 2021 2:45 pm

Hi Hey

Thank you for the info. I live in Denmark, so amazon.de is a great option.

I know there are other power banks with 99 or 100 Wh, but I also read that
other factors influence how many hours they will run the travel CPAP machines,
so it's good to hear from people who have actually used them :-)
Most people don't supply a precise estimate of the hours they get out of them.

The omni mobile 25600 that trailbear describes is not sufficient for me, and it
gives a lot less juice considering it has 92Wh. Only around 20 hours as measured by trailbear.

And what you said about wife's consumption would make me believe that I can
get around 4 nights (8hours), which is fine.

I am going to use it for hiking, so fast charging is convenient going through
small towns etc. So thanks for the link to the baseus charger - will definitely look into that.

Best
Jasper

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Machine: Z2 Auto Travel CPAP Machine
Additional Comments: Interested in Powerbanks for travel with my Breas Z1 (Z2) auto travel machine

Jas88
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:33 am

Re: Battery solution for HDM Z1 CPAP offgrid (backpacking, camping) usage

Post by Jas88 » Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:41 pm

By the way, I see that they have now made a supertank pro model.

It has on OLED panel, and it seems like information is always on for all the ports, or at least so it seems in the advertising fotos.
Do you think this will this drain any significant amount of energy from the battery?
Best
Jasper

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Machine: Z2 Auto Travel CPAP Machine
Additional Comments: Interested in Powerbanks for travel with my Breas Z1 (Z2) auto travel machine

Hey
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:07 pm
Location: Switzerland

Re: Battery solution for HDM Z1 CPAP offgrid (backpacking, camping) usage

Post by Hey » Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:47 pm

Hi Jasper

Looks like a the pro display is monochromatic OLED.

Here is the description of a similar sized monochrome display:
https://learn.adafruit.com/monochrome-o ... quirements

They say it consumes 20mAh at 3.3V. So it would be 0.02*3.3=0.066Wh per hour. So in one night (8 hours) it would be roughly 0.5Wh or 0.5% of the battery's capacity.

But I found a review that states that the display is only enabled when you push the main button:
https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/08 ... ertank-pro

They also mention it partially has an aluminum case now, which is certainly better for heat management then the older full plastic housing.

I wouldn't hesitate to buy the new one, if you can afford it.

Regards,
Adrian

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TDFFX
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Re: Battery solution for HDM Z1 CPAP offgrid (backpacking, camping) usage

Post by TDFFX » Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:58 am

Engineer-Hiker here, I was able to gather Z1 technical info before HDM was sold to SmallCPAP.com. I also ran a few tests that might be useful.

Technical Notes:

- The Z1 (and Z2) are designed as 15VDC devices with a min voltage of 11.8VDC (before it shuts down) and a max voltage of 16.5VDC
- Max amperage = 2A
- Power uses a 2.1mm x 5.5mm plug
- The Z2 has the same specifications as the Z1, only the fan motor is quieter and the electronics were redesigned to incorporate improvements they have discovered. (For example, in the Z1 if the internal battery dies and the machine cannot store data, it throws a Fault 33 and shuts down the machine. In the improved Z2 design if that happens the machine continues working but just won't store data)

Testing:
- I ran a series of three tests over 11 days using a PowerStream 15VDC battery (MP3450I) and a BixPower battery (MP100-15V)
- Bluetooth = off | Ramp Pressure = 4 | Ramp Duration = 10 min | Therapy Range = 5-10 (I use an automatic CPAP)
- I measured power consumption and averaged 19.6 Wh per night at an average of 7.3h sleep a night
- Z1 Typical Power Consumption (for me) = 20W (for trip planning purposes)
- Z1 Maximum Power Consumption (again for me) = 35W

Notes:
- A medical grade battery is not required (no oxygen rich environments on the trail)
- If using an unregulated 12V battery, and the voltage drops below 11.8v as it depletes, the machine will shutdown
- I have used the BixPower MP100-15V for ~1K miles on the Appalachian Trail with no issues and get 4.5 to 5 nights between charges if I don't use it to charge my phone or inReach
- Learned that the Automatic (APAP) setting uses more power than Continuous (CPAP) due to the need for pressure changes. So hypothetically, if the machine is set to CPAP and the minimum pressure needed to allow for a good night's sleep, then the battery will last longer
- Do not bother with the Z1/Z2 moisturizer adapters, they add weight and do not work well. Saline spray is lighter

Hammock Hacks:
- My Dutchware Gear hammock has a netting-loft above my head where the battery and CPAP goes; allows me to shorten the hose (tip for ultralight folks)
- For me, in the hammock, I lose air through my mouth (not an issue at home). The lightest practical solution I found was the SleepWeaver full face cloth masks. Better than a chin strap.
- A mouth guard that move your jaw forward is the lowest weight solution if it works for you. They can also be used to reduce the effective pressure setting needed -- which of course makes that heavy battery last longer


Hopefully that helps someone, along with the other great suggestions on this thread.

Be safe!

TD

Jas88
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:33 am

Re: Battery solution for HDM Z1 CPAP offgrid (backpacking, camping) usage

Post by Jas88 » Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:10 pm

Hi Adrian,

Thank you for your reply! Well yes, the display seems to use very little power,
but hopefully it is only enabled whwn you press the botton.
I would love to buy it, but I haven't found any shops in Denmark or Europe
except for one that received very bad reviews.

Anyway, I got 3 nights from the Supertank, which is ok. I don´t know what the pressure was,
but I think it's on automatic.

TDFFX: Great to hear about the batteries, you tried. The Bix power battery sounds excellent.
How many days did you get from the other one, the power stream? The Bix is sold out right now.

Thanks.
Best Jasper

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Machine: Z2 Auto Travel CPAP Machine
Additional Comments: Interested in Powerbanks for travel with my Breas Z1 (Z2) auto travel machine

pacoverde
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Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2019 2:32 pm
Location: Santa Cruz, CA

Re: Battery solution for HDM Z1 CPAP offgrid (backpacking, camping) usage

Post by pacoverde » Sun Jun 20, 2021 2:34 pm

I decided to buy a second Zendure supertank because at my pressure of 8-9 cm I don't think that I can count on more than 2 nights with my z2. It seems that the Zendure supertank is difficult to find so I went searching for an alternative PD battery of similar capacity with 100w charging and and found the "imuto Power Bank with Dual USB-C PD" which looks to have the same specs and port layout as the supertank and seems to be available on amazon.de for about 100 Euros. I haven't purchased it yet but I think that I will and I wanted to share here in case any of you are still looking for a new battery solution.

Thanks to all who have contributed to this discussion it has been a huge help for me. I've already used my z2 / Zendure setup handful of times and it's worked very well.

pacoverde
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2019 2:32 pm
Location: Santa Cruz, CA

Re: Battery solution for HDM Z1 CPAP offgrid (backpacking, camping) usage

Post by pacoverde » Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:16 pm

I did purchase the "imuto Power Bank with Dual USB-C PD" and received it yesterday. After unboxing and giving it a quick charge with a 100w charger it seems to charge at about the same rate according to its display as the Zendure supertank that I have (1-1.5% per minute). And as far as I can tell all other functionality seems identical to the Zendure - my suspicion is that the only difference is the form factor but I haven't opened either of them up to see the internals in order to confirm this.

I'm planning to test the Imuto Power Bank along side the Zendure supertank on a trip this weekend where I'll be able to capture some of my usage data in terms of watt hours and compare that to the displayed percentage on both batteries. I'm not an electrical engineer but consider myself to be fairly technical and I would be happy to contribute to this conversation with any further info or tests any of you would like me to perform on the Imuto Power Bank.

trailbear
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2020 3:34 pm

Re: Battery solution for HDM Z1 CPAP offgrid (backpacking, camping) usage

Post by trailbear » Tue Jul 06, 2021 4:42 pm

Update:
For 2021 I upgraded my off grid cpap machine from a Z1 to a Z2 Auto CPAP and Nitecore NB20000 batteries. I use the Anker PD1 30w charger to charge the batteries when in town. I can also use the Anker PD1 charger to power the Z2 when in a hotel / motel room with wall power.

I have been using this new setup every day for the past 3 months while thru-hiking the Pacific Crest Trail and it has been working well over the 1000+ miles so far.

Z2 Auto CPAP

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/z2-aut ... ap-machine

I use the Z2 APAP mode below 8000 feet elevation to minimize battery usage and use CPAP above 8000. Above 8000 feet the Z2 had difficulty providing a comfortable pressure when in APAP mode.

I also like the Z2 Bluetooth support as it enables me to use the Nitelog app on my phone to check the effectiveness of my cpap/apap treatment.

Nitecore NB20000 battery

https://www.nitecorestore.com/Nitecore- ... b20000.htm

The NB20000 supports 15V dc output via usb-c pd. I use a pd trigger cable that requests 15v dc from the NB20000 battery.

With my pressure settings I have been able to obtain about 2.5 nights of treatment from a single NB20000 battery. I have two batteries on the PCT and obtain a total of about 5 nights / 40 hours. During longer stretches (6 or more nights) between towns I have dialed my treatment hours down from 8 hours to around 5 hours. I still feel ok when waking up and can hike all day.

trailbear on the PCT

blue serotta
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2021 11:13 am

Re: Battery solution for HDM Z1 CPAP offgrid (bike and backpacking, camping) usage

Post by blue serotta » Wed Aug 11, 2021 11:33 am

to Trail Bear on PCT and others.
There is now a nice large volume of information for hikers and bikepackers who NEED multiple nights' worth of charge for their CPAP needs.
It seems that if you distill the information there is a consensus that the Z2 CPAP machine is optimal.
It seems that there are several solutions for the battery and charger, but at the same time, actual testing by folks, and reviews of chargers show that some chargers do not live up to their charge-rates as advertised but if one is mindful and with the correct items, the risk of instrument faults (overheating/under or over voltage--shutdown) can be minimized.
It seems that without dialing down the flow rate on the CPAP that 2-3 nights is possible in almost all cases. Correct?
It seems that the happy medium for weight (essential NEED! for bikepackers and backpackers who won't be charging anywhere until Day 3) is a total package of between 3-5 lbs. I saw one listing of 3 lbs. Three lbs on a bike is plenty heavy when climbing up 9% grades, even with ultra-light gear.

Can someone list each item's URL for each item that goes into their CPAP equipment bag that goes into their backpack/bike pannier (or other bike) bag? Please include any "mod" or "hack" such as those needed to convert hosing/power etc.
Thanks

p.s. these are my settings on my Airsense 10: EPR 3, f-time; Ramp: on, start=4 (cm/h20), auto; Min P: 5, Max P: 14, auto-set. I have a Freedom battery I used to hike BLM mines in Death Valley/Mojave areas but had to charge each/every other night when 4WD driving to next site. Now I understand these med-grade CPAP batteries are a) very heavy b) don't have the capacity for bikepacking more than 2 nights, preferably 4. I'd be willing to carry two power banks if the weight/capacity ratio is optimized.
Please help. Thanks

trailbear
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2020 3:34 pm

Re: Battery solution for HDM Z1 CPAP offgrid (backpacking, camping) usage

Post by trailbear » Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:33 pm

blue serotta

Here is a list of items I have in my cpap bag when backpacking / thru-hiking.
I used this setup for my 6 month thru-hike of the Pacific Crest Trail.
Apologies for the delayed reply. Just got finished with the PCT.

Z2 Auto CPAP
https://www.cpap.com/productpage/z2-aut ... ap-machine

ResMed AirFir P10 Mask
https://www.resmed.com/en-us/healthcare ... irfit-p10/

JacobsParts 15V USB C Type-C PD Trigger 3ft Power Cable
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08NS491XW

A2017 Anker PowerPort Atom PD 1 30W
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DFGKFM3/

Note: I carry three A2017 Anker PD1 chargers. Two to charge the two NB20000 batteries and the third to simultaneously run the cpap when in a town for a night.
Note: The newer A2665 Anker Nano II 30W Fast Charger Adapter(released in 2021) CUTS OUT POWER after 60min when running the Z2 Auto. I don't recommend using the A2665 with the Z2 Auto.

Amazon Basics usb-c to usb-c cable 3 feet / 0.9 meters
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01GGKYZQM/

Note: I carry two of these cables. Able to charge both the NB20000 batteries in parallel when in towns.

Nitecore NB20000 battery
https://www.nitecorestore.com/Nitecore- ... b20000.htm

Note: I carry two Nitecore NB20000 batteries to get 40 hours (5 nights at 8 hours per night) of cpap treatment when offgrid.
Each battery takes about 3.5 hours to charge via usb-c pd with the Anker PD1 charger.

Tekit (1.64ft/0.5m) US Power Extension Cable Cord
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0784JNFFJ/

Note: the extension cable cord and 3 outlet plug cube below enable me to use difficult to access electrical outlets in motels, hotels, hostels and even diners/restaurants. Yes, charge your cpap batteries when having breakfast :-)

Uninex PS22U 3-Outlet Polarized Plug Cube
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LYZYLQI/

trailbear
Last edited by trailbear on Sun Feb 06, 2022 10:35 am, edited 3 times in total.

craighagan
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:29 pm

Re: Battery solution for HDM Z1 CPAP offgrid (backpacking, camping) usage

Post by craighagan » Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:51 pm

I don't normally backpack for more than 2 nights, and select my gear accordingly. I do camp with scouts or family for longer, but usually I'm not very weight or power limited when doing so, eg have car, or solar, or electrical mains and a few more pounds or liters of volume are ok.

My kit fits in a one gallon ziptop bag and weighs between 2 and 3lbs depending upon exactly what I bring, with choices usually getting me to about 2lbs when backpacking.

A picture off my kit being prepped for a backpack, and an inventory of my kit are at the link below, along with what I did to power for my z2.

https://github.com/craighagan/hackproje ... PAP/HDM_Z2

Note I'm deliberately pointing here because others have asked about my kit, and I'm trying to improve it over time.

For sleeping, I usually hammock and put the machine in the "shelf" of my warbonnet blackbird and run my tube over my ridgeline, ends up being more comfy than my home unit. If tenting, I try to put the machine next to my pillow.

Mr. Bear
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Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2020 6:25 pm

Re: Battery solution for HDM Z1 CPAP offgrid (backpacking, camping) usage

Post by Mr. Bear » Sun Jan 16, 2022 5:55 pm

Hi there! I just want to make sure I understand all of this before I go and do something stupid. Well, before I go and do something stupid related to CPAP & batteries (more than I have already).

I'm going to Botswana in 3 months (hopefully). The trip has been postponed twice, due to COVID. Originally, I was going to bring my AirCurve 10 with me. I had bought an OmniCharge 20+ and was trying to learn the best way to use that to power the VPAP. I had bought a 5.5mmx2.1mm-to DC7406 cable, although when the trip was postponed, it went into the closet. Since then, I've bought a Z2 Auto, an OmniMobile 25600, and I've won (in an FB contest) an Omni 20c+. I bought the Mobile specifically for the Z2.

So the JacobsParts 15V USB C Type-C PD Trigger 3ft Power Cable is all I should need to power the Z2 from any of my OmniCharge batteries? Is that a better solution than using a 15V cable with dual 5.5mmx2.1mm barrels on the ends (which would only work with two of those batteries?

Thanks!

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trailbear
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Re: Battery solution for HDM Z1 CPAP offgrid (backpacking, camping) usage

Post by trailbear » Tue Jan 18, 2022 3:43 pm

I have the Omni Mobile 25600 and it does support USB-C output at 15V. I have used it with a usb-c pd trigger cable.

You should check the specification pages on the Omni website for the other two Omni power banks you have to verify they support USB-C output at 15V. If they do then you should be good.

As for output DC barrel connector vs USB-C connector: they both should work depending on the power bank as long as the right voltage of 15V DC gets output from the power bank output connector. PLEASE NOTE: the Omni mobile 25600 does NOT support 15V output via its DC barrel connector.

That all said I have found using a usb-c pd trigger cable like the JacobsParts 15V cable to be the most simple solution so far.

Enjoy your trip to Botswana.