COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
User avatar
Setj
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2013 6:04 pm
Location: Rochester, NY

Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please

Post by Setj » Mon May 17, 2021 10:33 am

McSleepy wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:58 am
I question his doctor's "99%" assessment.
jnk... wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:33 pm
A good doc knows to play along.

"Oh, yeeeees. I'm absolutely suuuuuuure you got the vaccine, sir." :wink:

Let's just hope Seth didn't read any further in this thread. After all, as of this writing, there is no scientifically validated way to repair a busted placebo. I mean, how would one double-blind THAT?! :P :lol:
The assessment was on target. When the study was unblinded, it showed they gave me the vaccine. Furthermore, the Pfizer double-blind, controlled trial has received rave reviews for the way it was conducted.

There is a lot of knowledge in this forum, but there are also some know-it-alls who don't know as much as they think they do.
Seth

(I made a typo when I registered the user name. :oops: )

User avatar
ChicagoGranny
Posts: 11768
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:43 pm
Location: USA

Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please

Post by ChicagoGranny » Mon May 17, 2021 1:03 pm

IDGAFWTCDCSYBWYMFM

McSleepy
Posts: 423
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:32 pm
Location: USA

Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please

Post by McSleepy » Mon May 17, 2021 1:24 pm

Setj wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 10:33 am
McSleepy wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:58 am
I question his doctor's "99%" assessment.
jnk... wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:33 pm
A good doc knows to play along.

"Oh, yeeeees. I'm absolutely suuuuuuure you got the vaccine, sir." :wink:

Let's just hope Seth didn't read any further in this thread. After all, as of this writing, there is no scientifically validated way to repair a busted placebo. I mean, how would one double-blind THAT?! :P :lol:
The assessment was on target. When the study was unblinded, it showed they gave me the vaccine. Furthermore, the Pfizer double-blind, controlled trial has received rave reviews for the way it was conducted.

There is a lot of knowledge in this forum, but there are also some know-it-alls who don't know as much as they think they do.
The confirmation of the assumption that what you had administered during the study ended up being the real vaccine does not in any way affirm your doctor's speculation - because that's all it was. My statement refers to the fact that your reaction to the shot could not be an indication that what you got was the vaccine with 99% certainty. The study was not only anonymous but also well-guarded; maybe the administrators had an idea of how likely it would be for a subject who had a certain reaction to have had the real vaccine, but not an outsider. If your doctor had said "very likely", it would have been credible; even "70-80%" would have been a respectable judgement; although providing specific numbers on an evaluation that has no formal measurement or statistical analysis to back it up is laughable. When there are only two outcomes, it's easy to "be right". I could have also guessed that you had the real vaccine but it would have been just that - a guess, and not an "assessment"; much less with "99%" certainty.

McSleepy
ResMed AirCurve 10 VAuto; Puritan-Bennett Breeze nasal pillow mask; healthy, active, middle-aged man; tall, athletic build; stomach sleeper; on CPAP since 2003; lives @ 5000 ft; surgically-corrected deviated septum and turbinates; regular nasal washes

User avatar
zonker
Posts: 8135
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:36 pm

Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please

Post by zonker » Mon May 17, 2021 1:46 pm

ChicagoGranny wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 1:03 pm
IDGAFWTCDCSYBWYMFM
easy for YOU to say.
the two great unwritten rules of life are-
1.
2.
Airsense 10 Autoset for Her
P10 Nasal Pillow Mask

User avatar
Setj
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2013 6:04 pm
Location: Rochester, NY

Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please

Post by Setj » Mon May 17, 2021 1:58 pm

McSleepy wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 1:24 pm
The confirmation of the assumption that what you had administered during the study ended up being the real vaccine does not in any way affirm your doctor's speculation - because that's all it was. My statement refers to the fact that your reaction to the shot could not be an indication that what you got was the vaccine with 99% certainty.
I seriously doubt you have ever read one page of a vaccine trial.

There were zero reported local reactions in the placebo group. The complete study is at NEJM, subscription not required.
pfizer local reactions.JPG
pfizer local reactions.JPG (23.56 KiB) Viewed 712 times
Seth

(I made a typo when I registered the user name. :oops: )

User avatar
Dog Slobber
Posts: 2884
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:05 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please

Post by Dog Slobber » Mon May 17, 2021 3:05 pm

zonker wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 1:46 pm
ChicagoGranny wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 1:03 pm
IDGAFWTCDCSYBWYMFM
easy for YOU to say.
CGIWHMFM.jpg
CGIWHMFM.jpg (14.64 KiB) Viewed 705 times

User avatar
ChicagoGranny
Posts: 11768
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:43 pm
Location: USA

Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please

Post by ChicagoGranny » Mon May 17, 2021 3:50 pm

Setj wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 1:58 pm
I seriously doubt you have ever read one page of a vaccine trial.
+1

User avatar
zonker
Posts: 8135
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:36 pm

Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please

Post by zonker » Mon May 17, 2021 5:12 pm

Dog Slobber wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 3:05 pm

CGIWHMFM.jpg
indeed, she is.

(once is saw CDC, the rest fell into place.)

but ONLY after i posted...
the two great unwritten rules of life are-
1.
2.
Airsense 10 Autoset for Her
P10 Nasal Pillow Mask

User avatar
chunkyfrog
Posts: 31257
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:10 pm
Location: in a nice, moist bog

Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please

Post by chunkyfrog » Mon May 17, 2021 8:29 pm

I got as far as "IDGAF" when I understood all I needed.
Resmed Airsense 10 Autoset FOR HER, p10 mask

McSleepy
Posts: 423
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:32 pm
Location: USA

Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please

Post by McSleepy » Mon May 17, 2021 10:28 pm

Setj wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 1:58 pm
McSleepy wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 1:24 pm
The confirmation of the assumption that what you had administered during the study ended up being the real vaccine does not in any way affirm your doctor's speculation - because that's all it was. My statement refers to the fact that your reaction to the shot could not be an indication that what you got was the vaccine with 99% certainty.
I seriously doubt you have ever read one page of a vaccine trial.

There were zero reported local reactions in the placebo group. The complete study is at NEJM, subscription not required.

pfizer local reactions.JPG
And when were those studies published? Before your doctor made that statement? No, really...

McSleepy
ResMed AirCurve 10 VAuto; Puritan-Bennett Breeze nasal pillow mask; healthy, active, middle-aged man; tall, athletic build; stomach sleeper; on CPAP since 2003; lives @ 5000 ft; surgically-corrected deviated septum and turbinates; regular nasal washes

User avatar
ChicagoGranny
Posts: 11768
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:43 pm
Location: USA

Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please

Post by ChicagoGranny » Tue May 18, 2021 7:17 am

McSleepy wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 10:28 pm
And when were those studies published? Before your doctor made that statement? No, really...
I'm sure any doctor "worth his salt" has read a dozen studies where saline solutions were used as placebos.
Setj wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 1:58 pm
Setj
Thank you so much for being a trial volunteer and posting about it here. As far as I can tell, you are the only cpaptalk member who was in the trials. I'm sorry for the reception you received here. If Pfizer ever tells you to get a booster, I hope you will update this thread.

McSleepy
Posts: 423
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:32 pm
Location: USA

Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please

Post by McSleepy » Tue May 18, 2021 3:34 pm

ChicagoGranny wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 7:17 am
McSleepy wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 10:28 pm
And when were those studies published? Before your doctor made that statement? No, really...
I'm sure any doctor "worth his salt" has read a dozen studies where saline solutions were used as placebos.
Setj wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 1:58 pm
Setj
Thank you so much for being a trial volunteer and posting about it here. As far as I can tell, you are the only cpaptalk member who was in the trials. I'm sorry for the reception you received here. If Pfizer ever tells you to get a booster, I hope you will update this thread.
And that's exactly my point - at the time, that doctor had not way of knowing that saline was used as a placebo. There are plenty of alternatives designed to provoke a reaction similar to the normal, healthy vaccine reaction, just to add another level of isolation to the subject's perception.

In no way have I ever tried to diminish or undermine Seth's contribution; in fact, I thanked him for his sacrifice (potential! glad it worked out great) back when he originally posted. I also never tried to reject his views and opinions; I simply pointed out that often personal opinions (that of his doctor) that may otherwise turn out to be correct and factual, cannot be taken as objective truth simply because they are also popular. I think we are all on the same page.

McSleepy
ResMed AirCurve 10 VAuto; Puritan-Bennett Breeze nasal pillow mask; healthy, active, middle-aged man; tall, athletic build; stomach sleeper; on CPAP since 2003; lives @ 5000 ft; surgically-corrected deviated septum and turbinates; regular nasal washes

User avatar
Setj
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2013 6:04 pm
Location: Rochester, NY

Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please

Post by Setj » Wed May 19, 2021 9:26 am

McSleepy wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 3:34 pm
And that's exactly my point - at the time, that doctor had not way of knowing that saline was used as a placebo.
You are easy to figure out. You are just pulling things out of your butt when you have no knowledge of what you are talking about. Pfizer kept no secrets that the placebo was a saline solution. I knew this before applying as a volunteer. It was also discussed in the press.

When they gave me the consent forms to sign, the forms said in part, " ... the placebo injection contains salt-water and no active ingredients ... "

Good-bye
Seth

(I made a typo when I registered the user name. :oops: )

McSleepy
Posts: 423
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:32 pm
Location: USA

Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please

Post by McSleepy » Wed May 19, 2021 1:53 pm

Setj wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 9:26 am
McSleepy wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 3:34 pm
And that's exactly my point - at the time, that doctor had not way of knowing that saline was used as a placebo.
You are easy to figure out. You are just pulling things out of your butt when you have no knowledge of what you are talking about. Pfizer kept no secrets that the placebo was a saline solution. I knew this before applying as a volunteer. It was also discussed in the press.

When they gave me the consent forms to sign, the forms said in part, " ... the placebo injection contains salt-water and no active ingredients ... "

Good-bye
Well, when I read about those studies at the time, none of the articles (including the one you had quoted) were specific about the Pfizer vaccine placebo; some articles did mention the opposite of the AstraZeneca vaccine (active placebo), so it seemed reasonable to expect the same of the rest. If you had this specific prior knowledge (e.g., from your disclosure form), you could have shared it immediately, instead of creating an argument, with personal attacks (I never said anything about you).

Farewell.

McSleepy
ResMed AirCurve 10 VAuto; Puritan-Bennett Breeze nasal pillow mask; healthy, active, middle-aged man; tall, athletic build; stomach sleeper; on CPAP since 2003; lives @ 5000 ft; surgically-corrected deviated septum and turbinates; regular nasal washes

User avatar
ChicagoGranny
Posts: 11768
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:43 pm
Location: USA

Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please

Post by ChicagoGranny » Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:39 pm

Great news for those of us vaccinated with two doses of mRNA.

The vaccines made by Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna set off a persistent immune reaction in the body that may protect against the coronavirus for years, scientists reported on Monday (6/28/2021).

The findings add to growing evidence that most people immunized with the mRNA vaccines MAY NOT NEED BOOSTERS, so long as the virus and its variants do not evolve much beyond their current forms — which is not guaranteed.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/28/heal ... unity.html