CPAPtalk.com

Guinges wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:53 am

. Creating a warm moist environment in the tube was I think leading to an unpleasant odor (bacteria), despite regular washing, soaking in Hydrogen Peroxide, ozonating at the CPAP shop. That's all gone since I stopped doing that and bought a new tube.

Any CPAP ozonators clean nothing except your wallet and are too weak to effectively disinfect anything, All they do is present a health hazard to any breathing organism in proximity.

It would be good advice to avoide the topic here unless you want to see the REAL pitchforks.

prodigyplace wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:38 pm

It would be good advice to avoide the topic here unless you want to see the REAL pitchforks.

Ain't that the truth. Those pitchforks are UGLY....makes the stuff in this thread look like Sunday School.
Pitchforks dipped in poison .

Though you missed a prime opportunity here folks....those ozone cleaners say they make things smell great but the OP said that despite using the ozone thing....it didn't eliminate the stink in his hose. Gosh...I wonder if they really do what they say they do....no need to answer that folks. I don't want to go down that road here in this thread. It got off to a bad enough start as it is and despite my request to let it go and accept the apology....people are still throwing stones.

Guinges wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:44 am

Dog Slobber wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:15 am

Guinges wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 07, 2019 4:46 am

What nasty replies (on the whole). You people need to get more sleep.
My intention was only to start a debate. I wasn't sure if my position was a good one, but after unquestioningly believing humidifiers were a good thing for so long, I was beginning to wonder, especially when I stopped using one and preferred it.
Common beliefs aren't always right.

Is it your normal practise to start a debate by suggesting people are a bunch of suckers who need smartening up?

And then refer to those who respond in kind as nasty?

Not my normal practice but I thought I would give it a try

We are all suckers. Was it Henry Ford who said "There's a sucker born every minute"? I think I was sucked in for sure and I include myself in that category. That's why it is important to question things. I googled whether humidifiers were really needed and got the same old spiel repeated over and over, anecdotal stuff, no hard data that I could find. It's a bit like the "Big Endians" and the "Little Endians" in Gullivars travels who went to war over which end you should open your boiled eggs.

Thanks for your useful post Pugsy.

Sorry Doc, swing and a miss again,

Barnum
There's a sucker born every minute. "There's a sucker born every minute" is a phrase closely associated with P. T. Barnum, an American showman of the mid-19th century, although there is no evidence that he actually said it.

Jim, Not a Doctor, just a Heavy Mechanic.

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:46 pm

let it go and accept the apology

Is an apology still due for lying about education and being a MD?

ChicagoGranny wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:53 pm

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:46 pm

let it go and accept the apology

Is an apology still due for lying about education and being a MD?

That's assuming facts not in evidence.
Personal opinion and YMMV stuff.

Hey....I look at it this way...he got started off on a bad note and instead of getting uppity about it and doing more stone throwing back he apologized and took his lumps like a man. I don't fault anyone for that and in my mind it speaks volumes as to his character.
Unlike another recent newbie whose character is scrapping the bottom of the barrel IMHO.

So it really doesn't matter to me one way or the other if he does or doesn't have some fancy letters after his name.
Letters don't make the man/woman. Actions do though.
I am more than willing to let by gones be by gones and move on and pretend the ugly didn't happen. It's so much easier on my digestion anyway. I prefer to look for the good in people and not the bad.....though I will admit that some people really make me have to go dig out a really big microscope. Not the OP here though. I am prepared to move on and proceed as normal and not let my bitchy self show.... too much anyway.

Guinges wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:56 am

palerider wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:47 am

There are studies published on pubmed that say that your suppositions lack scientific basis, I don't have the links with me here, I'd someone else doesn't come up with them, I'll post them later.

That would be great. Thank you.

This ought to get you started:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5611769/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3716664/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16236866

palerider wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 07, 2019 2:58 pm

Guinges wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:56 am

palerider wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:47 am

There are studies published on pubmed that say that your suppositions lack scientific basis, I don't have the links with me here, I'd someone else doesn't come up with them, I'll post them later.

That would be great. Thank you.

This ought to get you started:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5611769/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3716664/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16236866

Thanks, Interesting and somewhat reassuring, but my question was more about whether the benefits of humidification were real and substantial enough to be worth the trouble, rather than any potential health risk...Actually that's not totally true as I was also concerned about disadvantages such as having (in my case) to breath warm smelly air.

Thanks for looking up the links.

Guinges wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:10 pm

Actually that's not totally true as I was also concerned about disadvantages such as having (in my case) to breath warm smelly air.

Thanks for looking up the links.

Did an educated person like you mean breath (noun) or breathe (verb) ?

Have you changed the input filter on your machine? Many have a better hypoallergenic filter as an option.
The humidifier does not heat the air up significantly. In fact you can get some "passover" humidification by just letting the air pass over unheated water in the humidifier.

Guinges wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:10 pm

palerider wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 07, 2019 2:58 pm

Guinges wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:56 am

palerider wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:47 am

There are studies published on pubmed that say that your suppositions lack scientific basis, I don't have the links with me here, I'd someone else doesn't come up with them, I'll post them later.

That would be great. Thank you.

This ought to get you started:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5611769/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3716664/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16236866

Thanks, Interesting and somewhat reassuring, but my question was more about whether the benefits of humidification were real and substantial enough to be worth the trouble, rather than any potential health risk...Actually that's not totally true as I was also concerned about disadvantages such as having (in my case) to breath warm smelly air.

Thanks for looking up the links.

I keep them handy for ignorant fools that are spouting nonsense about the 'dangers' of not sterilizing one's cpap every hour

Guinges wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:10 pm

my question was more about whether the benefits of humidification were real and substantial enough to be worth the trouble,

For me....and the rhinitis I get without adequate moisture....most definitely worth the trouble.
Maybe I am weird but I don't sleep so great if I can't breathe through my nose and I am experiencing nasty symptoms all during the day as well as during the night. I see zero sense in being plain miserable during the day and night because of having to do a little extra work which involves keeping an adequate water supply in the chamber. No brainer for me. Now someone else...that might be a different story and this is where that YMMV sticker shows up.

Guinges wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:10 pm

I was also concerned about disadvantages such as having (in my case) to breath warm smelly air.

No real disadvantages except it annoys you and that's a good enough reason ....again because of the YMMV sticker.
If you wanted to really investigate the cause I have some ideas but I don't think it was because something nasty was growing in your hose or water chamber.

The benefits are there for those that seem to need added moisture to make the nasal mucosa happy. That's a proven fact.
Now the disadvantages that people come up with ..like the extra work or the chance of nasties growing somewhere in or on our equipment....that's the person's brain trying to come up with an excuse not to do the extra work or they have a serious germophobe issue.

As for the warm swampy air feeling...there are ways to mitigate that.
I understand that feeling but it doesn't smell bad. It just doesn't feel as good as nice cool air feels.

palerider wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:29 am

Abbey sleeps wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:58 am

I’m curious, do you use distilled water? The only time the air I was breathing has smelled was when I used tap water, as I had run out of distilled. Our drinking water is perfectly clean and has no noticeable smell. But, breathing it in such concentrated fashion, one can certainly smell that it is not distilled.

You breathe far more of it in the spray when you shower, how does it smell then?

Can't speak for anybody else, but they tap water in my area tastes nasty, and does have a funky smell. I used to use our ice in my cooler, but my bottled drinks always smelled icky. If I put the ice in ziplock bags or use purchased ice, I don't notice any smell. I don't notice it when brushing my teeth or showering, but I will not drink it or use it in my cpap.

prodigyplace wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:27 pm

Guinges wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:10 pm

Actually that's not totally true as I was also concerned about disadvantages such as having (in my case) to breath warm smelly air.

Thanks for looking up the links.

Did an educated person like you mean breath (noun) or breathe (verb) ?

Have you changed the input filter on your machine? Many have a better hypoallergenic filter as an option.
The humidifier does not heat the air up significantly. In fact you can get some "passover" humidification by just letting the air pass over unheated water in the humidifier.

Yes that was a stupid spelling mistake.

I did change the filters. I think it's going to boil down to, for now, I find I like it better without. I think I must be pretty stupid not to have tried without before. I just thought it was necessary and something you were supposed to do. When I started questioning it, I started looking for answers, and I realized this would probably be the place to find them as I wasn't finding them on Youtube etc. At least nothing that satisfied me and passed the simplest critical analysis.

The air in your XPAP system comes from your house and bedroom, maybe it's in your own house. I no longer use a HH, I keep a large container of ice water by the bed with the straw, I know it's not good for sleep, but I tend to awake ever hour or so, and move around, re fit the mask, drink and roll, most of the time I barely awake, less that a minute and I'm back asleep.

The HH, has many uses, it can add warm moisture, or cooler passover moisture (turned off). or just noise reduction (empty and off) and removed (gone). Choose the option that suits your needs. Free Willie! We are not alike, but we all can think,(Most of us anyway)! Jim

Guinges wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:57 pm

I think I must be pretty stupid not to have tried without before. I just thought it was necessary and something you were supposed to do. When I started questioning it, I started looking for answers, and I realized this would probably be the place to find them as I wasn't finding them on Youtube etc.

If you'd come in here and *asked* as civil question, instead of showing your ass, you'd have been told, like everyone else that asks, that humidity needs vary from individual to individual, and the only way you can tell what's best for you is to experiment, try more, or less, or even none.

Perhaps next time you go somewhere new, you'll do it with more class.

palerider wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:48 pm

Guinges wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:57 pm

I think I must be pretty stupid not to have tried without before. I just thought it was necessary and something you were supposed to do. When I started questioning it, I started looking for answers, and I realized this would probably be the place to find them as I wasn't finding them on Youtube etc.

If you'd come in here and *asked* as civil question, instead of showing your ass, you'd have been told, like everyone else that asks, that humidity needs vary from individual to individual, and the only way you can tell what's best for you is to experiment, try more, or less, or even none.

Perhaps next time you go somewhere new, you'll do it with more class.

I should't have been drinking wine when I posted originally. But too late. Lesson learnt. I like to make things larger than life when I'm feeling merry.

I have been thinking about why some people may need humidification and others might not. Could it be related to the degree of mouth leak that is occurring? Mouth leak is said to be fairly common. If it was occurring, to any degree, then airflow through the nose and mouth would indeed be greater than normal breathing, leading to dryness of the nose and mouth and rhinitis etc.