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Re: Resmed F20 mask flap valve trouble
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:19 pm
by palerider
ragtopcircus wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:38 pm
I'm going to guess that you have the mask type/resistance set to X0. That is the official Phillips Respironics recommendation for any non-PR mask. It is what Respiratory Techs are trained to do, and also what some here will tell you. It is also utter nonsense unless you sleep with the end of the hose directly in your mouth. The mask type/resistance setting (along with the hose type setting) tells the machine how to compensate for the pressure drop in the mask (and hose) that is proportional to airflow. I recommend using X1 for the F20 (most of its resistance is in the elbow, but that still counts). The X0 setting is just their CYA means of absolving themselves of any liability for other companies' masks, but it unfortunately doesn't change the physics.
FWIW, even with the pressure at 13, those valves popping when I took an even moderately deep breath, and the mask sucking in toward my face every time I inhaled, drove me batty. X1 is much more comfortable.
QuietlyRaging wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:21 pm
What if the flaps stay open while exhaling? I’m assuming my pressure is too high. 19/25
They don't.
Re: Resmed F20 mask flap valve trouble
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:25 pm
by palerider
ragtopcircus wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:38 pm
I'm going to guess that you have the mask type/resistance set to X0. That is the official Phillips Respironics recommendation for any non-PR mask. It is what Respiratory Techs are trained to do, and also what some here will tell you. It is also utter nonsense unless you sleep with the end of the hose directly in your mouth. The mask type/resistance setting (along with the hose type setting) tells the machine how to compensate for the pressure drop in the mask (and hose) that is proportional to airflow.
This is has one little nugget of truth in it.
The hose type setting does allow the machine to compensate for hose resistance (humidifier resistance, which is also a thing, is set automatically).
That's it for accuracy.
The default (x0) setting compensates for the *average* mask, so your comment about sticking the hose in your mount would be wrong.
The setting is *documented* to only provide a fraction of *one* cm pressure compensation...
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x256 ... /graph.jpg
Read up.
viewtopic/t74076/SYSTEM-ONE-resistance- ... -mean.html
Re: Resmed F20 mask flap valve trouble
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:27 pm
by ragtopcircus
I have read up. Suit yourself. I didn't say a word about the humidifier though.
Re: Resmed F20 mask flap valve trouble
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:30 pm
by palerider
ragtopcircus wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:27 pm
I have read up. Suit yourself. I didn't say a word about the humidifier though.
You need to read more.
A fraction of one cm pressure change won't make the difference you claim.
Omitting the pressure compensation that occurs based on the humidifier when you brought the hose into it....
Re: Resmed F20 mask flap valve trouble
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:37 pm
by ragtopcircus
palerider wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:25 pm
The default (x0) setting compensates for the *average* mask, so your comment about sticking the hose in your mount would be wrong.
So, how is it that every Respironics mask requires X1 or greater, but the *average* non-Respironics mask is X0? How exactly is it that flow resistance only matters for one brand?
Re: Resmed F20 mask flap valve trouble
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:41 pm
by ragtopcircus
palerider wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:30 pm
Omitting the pressure compensation that occurs based on the humidifier when you brought the hose into it....
There is no user setting for humidifier compensation, and there is only one humidifier option that is integrated into the design. Presumably they have already characterized that to whatever extent is required.
Re: Resmed F20 mask flap valve trouble
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:27 pm
by palerider
ragtopcircus wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:41 pm
palerider wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:30 pm
Omitting the pressure compensation that occurs based on the humidifier when you brought the hose into it....
There is no user setting for humidifier compensation, and there is only one humidifier option that is integrated into the design. Presumably they have already characterized that to whatever extent is required.
Here ya go, since you missed that bit:
palerider wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:25 pm
(humidifier resistance, which is also a thing, is set automatically).
Re: Resmed F20 mask flap valve trouble
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:31 pm
by palerider
ragtopcircus wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:37 pm
palerider wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:25 pm
The default (x0) setting compensates for the *average* mask, so your comment about sticking the hose in your mount would be wrong.
So, how is it that every Respironics mask requires X1 or greater, but the *average* non-Respironics mask is X0? How exactly is it that flow resistance only matters for one brand?
Because they want to be 'special', and they don't *care* about any other brand.
The entire "System One Resistance" all came about in *response* to Resmed's mask type compensation in the S9 series, Respironics introduced it in their System One 60 series, which came out after the S9 debuted.
You won't find those settings in other brands of machine, because it is
not a big deal, as *clearly* documented, it's simply a *fine tuning* parameter, no matter what you
thought back when you were twiddling with settings.
Re: Resmed F20 mask flap valve trouble
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:46 pm
by ragtopcircus
palerider wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:27 pm
Here ya go, since you missed that bit:
palerider wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:25 pm
(humidifier resistance, which is also a thing, is set automatically).
Didn't miss it at all. We totally agree on that ... which is why I never raised it as an issue.
Re: Resmed F20 mask flap valve trouble
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:40 pm
by ShaggyLegs
I'm having this exact same problem with the resmed and the f20. It wakes me up multiple times throughout the night whooshing a ton of air as if trying to compensate for a lack of pressure due to a leak somewhere. The air seems to be coming from the front of the mask (possibly the elbow although i can't really tell). I can't tell where it's coming from, as this only happens right when I'm about to doze off. i turn the machine off and back on quickly and it fixes itself, but needless to say this is getting very annoying as I'm slowly operating on less sleep.
Re: Resmed F20 mask flap valve trouble
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2022 6:44 pm
by tyrinryan
shaggylegs: perhaps you could investigate by making aa ring with your thumb and first finger and circling the elbow vent and tightening (when this happens). You could hear if that is where the whooshing is coming from.
Re: Resmed F20 mask flap valve trouble
Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2022 11:15 am
by ShaggyLegs
Good suggestion which I took. What seems to be happening is that yes air is coming from the elbow air ports, but in addition to that there is so much positive pressure in the mask when this happens that air is forced out from the sides of the mask as well, hitting me in the eyes or escaping from below the mask. The machine is at a 9.7 or so when this is happening as I wake up (the technician set it to 5 - 10 before shipping it to me). I guess my question is, is the device malfunctioning or do I need to strap this thing even tighter to my face to prevent the air pressure from forcing the mask off or something. It feels like it's working amazingly as I begin to fall asleep, but then I wake up at some point to tons of air whooshing out the front of the mask as well as the side of the mask.
Addendum: It seems that the mask in fact was breaking seal throughout the night. I tightened it some and subsequently got the best sleep I've had in a decade.
