CPAPtalk.com

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:33 am

Side note...apneas can morph...start out as one kind and change to another mid stream.
That's how come you see a section for mixed apneas on sleep study reports.
Same thing can happen to hyponeas.

oh, ffs! i'm never going to learn all this stuff.

Dog Slobber wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:39 am

Jas_williams wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:42 pm

Central Apnoea which you are suffering from is consistently inconsistent, you won’t get acceptable numbers until your machine is changed to an ASV that can adequately treat your CA’s and Central Hypopnoea’s, but your in early days of that journey with your dr

Don't mean to derail this topic, but I'm confused by the term Central Hypopnoea.

As I undestand:

• Obstructive Apneas are the closing of the airway.
• Hypopneas are partial closing of the airway.
• Central Apneas are lack of effort to breath.

The term Central Hypopneas doesn't make sense to me.

Well, since we're here anyway, I'll see if I can clear things up a little.

Since the term "flow" has been misunderstood in the past, I'll try and be more precise. (the term 'flow' is used to both mean 'volume' and 'rate', which aren't the same thing)

A hypopnea is a reduction in air *volume* in your breathing, ie, a lowering of the tidal volume, it's like shallow breathing, you're not getting a full breath.

Now, WHY you're not getting a full breath, that's whether it's a central or obstructive hypo. If you're not getting a full breath because your throat has closed off a lot, then it's an obstructive one, (and likely means you're working harder to breathe, and that would show up with those abdominal belts in a study.

If, on the other hand, your co2 is a little low, then the system that makes your breathe in response to that may not be getting out a 'full breath' signal. Like if you see true CSR, you see the breathing taper off to nothing, it doesn't just *stop*. then it tapers back up, a very nice, very even waxing and waning. ... and that's purely central, and very peaceful, no extra effort involved.

So, a hypo could be central if your body just doesn't feel it needs to blow off as much CO2 for 10 seconds or more.

Now, there's no way to tell at the home, because machines don't even try to determine whether the airway is open or closing.

Does this help?

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:33 am

Side note...apneas can morph...start out as one kind and change to another mid stream.
That's how come you see a section for mixed apneas on sleep study reports.
Same thing can happen to hyponeas.

Yes, sometimes you can have a central apnea, and during that central, your throat closes... so, it's really a central, since you're not *trying* to breathe, but the machine will say it's an obstructive, since the throat closed during it...

But, then... if your throat *stays* closed, and you start *trying* to breathe... then it's an obstructive.

Dog Slobber wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:39 am

Jas_williams wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:42 pm

Central Apnoea which you are suffering from is consistently inconsistent, you won’t get acceptable numbers until your machine is changed to an ASV that can adequately treat your CA’s and Central Hypopnoea’s, but your in early days of that journey with your dr

Don't mean to derail this topic, but I'm confused by the term Central Hypopnoea.

As I undestand:

• Obstructive Apneas are the closing of the airway.
• Hypopneas are partial closing of the airway.
• Central Apneas are lack of effort to breath.

The term Central Hypopneas doesn't make sense to me.

Sorry got carried away


Hypopnoeas can be Obstructive based or centrally based.


Hypopnoeas are a reduction in flow that reduction can be caused by Obstruction or Lack of effort (central in nature) Resmed Machines and Philips Machines do not classify hypopnoea by type however some machines do such as the German Löwenstine CPAP Machine.

zonker wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:16 am

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:33 am

Side note...apneas can morph...start out as one kind and change to another mid stream.
That's how come you see a section for mixed apneas on sleep study reports.
Same thing can happen to hyponeas.

oh, ffs! i'm never going to learn all this stuff.

Careful, you never know what kind of knowledge may seep in over time

palerider wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:00 pm

Well, since we're here anyway, I'll see if I can clear things up a little.

Always appreciate it when you take the time to do this.

palerider wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:00 pm

Does this help?

Yup!

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:33 am

Side note...apneas can morph...start out as one kind and change to another mid stream.
That's how come you see a section for mixed apneas on sleep study reports.
Same thing can happen to hyponeas.

Jas_williams wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:41 pm

Hypopnoeas can be Obstructive based or centrally based.

Hypopnoeas are a reduction in flow that reduction can be caused by Obstruction or Lack of effort (central in nature) Resmed Machines and Philips Machines do not classify hypopnoea by type however some machines do such as the German Löwenstine CPAP Machine.

palerider wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:00 pm

Well, since we're here anyway, I'll see if I can clear things up a little.

Since the term "flow" has been misunderstood in the past, I'll try and be more precise. (the term 'flow' is used to both mean 'volume' and 'rate', which aren't the same thing)

A hypopnea is a reduction in air *volume* in your breathing, ie, a lowering of the tidal volume, it's like shallow breathing, you're not getting a full breath.

Now, WHY you're not getting a full breath, that's whether it's a central or obstructive hypo. If you're not getting a full breath because your throat has closed off a lot, then it's an obstructive one, (and likely means you're working harder to breathe, and that would show up with those abdominal belts in a study.

If, on the other hand, your co2 is a little low, then the system that makes your breathe in response to that may not be getting out a 'full breath' signal. Like if you see true CSR, you see the breathing taper off to nothing, it doesn't just *stop*. then it tapers back up, a very nice, very even waxing and waning. ... and that's purely central, and very peaceful, no extra effort involved.

So, a hypo could be central if your body just doesn't feel it needs to blow off as much CO2 for 10 seconds or more.

Now, there's no way to tell at the home, because machines don't even try to determine whether the airway is open or closing.

Does this help?

Thank you Pugsy, Jas and PR.

Ive had no problem understanding the analog nature of obstructive apnea as its easy to appreciate the passage way in many states from fully open to completely closed. But I had always just thought that with cetrals one is either making an effort to breath or not.

Total kudos to Zonker!

Dog Slobber wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:09 am

Ive had no problem understanding the analog nature of obstructive apnea as its easy to appreciate the passage way in many states from fully open to completely closed. But I had always just thought that with cetrals one is either making an effort to breath or not.

Remember my old saying....everything comes with a big YMMV sticker and that is especially true when it comes to medicine or the human body. There's nothing that is totally 100% black and white. There are always little shades of gray everywhere in everything.

katestyles wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:10 am

Total kudos to Zonker!

THERE'S my favorite teacher! welcome back. i've missed you.

and yeah i was pretty proud of that. then was brought back down by the 0.33 and then the 0.72.

that's more of what i'm used to.

zonker wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:36 pm

"the trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt."

How sure of that are you?

ChicagoGranny wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:47 am

zonker wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:36 pm

"the trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt."

How sure of that are you?

zonker wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:10 am

ChicagoGranny wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:47 am

zonker wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:36 pm

"the trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt."

How sure of that are you?

openmouth.jpg

Talk about getting backed into a corner!

Nicely done, CG.

zonker wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:36 pm

katestyles wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:10 am

Total kudos to Zonker!

THERE'S my favorite teacher! welcome back. i've missed you.

and yeah i was pretty proud of that. then was brought back down by the 0.33 and then the 0.72.

that's more of what i'm used to.

Sorry - I have been pretty much consumed by losing my job, getting another, and starting it.

katestyles wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:32 pm

zonker wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:36 pm

katestyles wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:10 am

Total kudos to Zonker!

THERE'S my favorite teacher! welcome back. i've missed you.

and yeah i was pretty proud of that. then was brought back down by the 0.33 and then the 0.72.

that's more of what i'm used to.

Sorry - I have been pretty much consumed by losing my job, getting another, and starting it.

oh so sorry. i hope the new one is much better than the previous.