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Pugsy wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:49 pm

What people can do to see if it is just the pillow resistance not allowing for the machine to sense if the human is still using it or bad sensors....just take the mask off of the long hose and see if the machine will then turn off like it should.
If it doesn't then there is a problem with the sensors..
If it does turn off then it's the mask that is being used that seems to be the culprit...and we just have to manually push the button to turn it off.

I have the ResMed F30 FFM and SmartStart quit shutting off reliably. Maybe 3 out of 10 mornings it would auto-stop. I had noticed another mention or two of the behavior on the forum and just accepted it with a shrug as hitting the button is not a big deal to me.

But I just tried Pugsy's troubleshooting idea and when I detach the hose from the mask it shuts off every single time within a few seconds. Three attempts -- three successful shut-offs... Bada-bing, Bada-boom! I would have thought the F30 allowed enough airflow when off my face to be easily detected by the machine, at least well enough that it was not confused with a large leak.

Simple enough troubleshooting step. Sort of a, "DOH! Why didn't I think of that?" head-slapper of an idea...

Thanks Pugsy! You're a peach, as always!

-JD

JayDee wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:43 am

I would have thought the F30 allowed enough airflow when off my face to be easily detected by the machine, at least well enough that it was not confused with a large leak.

Seems like this auto off issue isn't just related to nasal pillows anymore. You aren't the first to say it was happening with a full face mask.
I suspect you won't be the last either. I think that it's a combination of pressures used and the inherent resistance in the mask itself and that may be tied to the silicone used. Maybe the silicone used chemical composition is changing a bit or something.
At any rate...if it's not the machine sensors going whacko (verified by my little experiment with removing the mask from the hose) then that really only leaves the mask being the culprit and people will either have to manually push the button or remove the mask from the long hose. Not much in terms of other choices that I see.
Most people it isn't a problem just pushing a button but those that find that is a problem a quick removal of the mask from the long hose should be doable. It is what it is......

And it is funny....most of the time with my Bleep mask the auto off works perfect but this morning it didn't. Go figure. I haven't had time to check the data to see what pressure I might have been using when I woke up and took the mask off. Even for me the issue is intermittent.

Here's a question -- can/does ResMed update the machine (software or firmware) via the cellular connection? I'm wondering if something got updated/changed because I don't think this SmartStart problem existed when the machine was new... I think this F30 is my 5th or 6th mask. Within my first year, I went through FFMs, Pillows, Nasals and I've only recently noticed the issue.

Another idea is that I do have bad leaks, but they don't wake me up and my sleep quality and numbers are otherwise good. Since these are machines that sort of "learn", could it be that I've trained the machine to ignore the "big leak" when I remove the mask?

Just spit-balling idea...

Thanks,
-JD

Something I love is a thread like this one. Educational. Helpful. User helping user. A lot of good ideas and clear thinking.

Now back to our regularly scheduled program.

By that I mean, Enough of this helpful crap. Anyone got anything they want to fight about?

JayDee wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:27 am

Since these are machines that sort of "learn", could it be that I've trained the machine to ignore the "big leak" when I remove the mask?

These machines don't learn anything
with the exception of the for Her auto mode that will change the minimum pressure if 2 OAs happen within a minute...and keep it that way the rest of the night with the new higher minimum...they don't learn or remember anything and even with the for Her mode thing once the machine gets turned off for any reason and a new session gets created it promptly forgets about those 2 OAs in 1 minute in that prior session.

Something sure seems to have changed though....seeing a lot more of these auto off problems lately it seems like.
If I was to ask ResMed about it I am 100% certain they would tell me it's my Bleep mask who is at fault.
Never mind that it happened with my P10 and it wouldn't shut off even using a pressure of 10.
And it's happening with your ResMed mask too.
ResMed will blame other manufacturer's masks first...then hem haw about the problem being with their masks.

Until DMEs and doctors start complaining about it though I don't see them doing anything about it because after all...us lowly peon cpap users are NOT their primary customer.

And yes...they could force a machine software upgrade over the air if they wanted to...assuming that this issue is something that could be fixed with a software update....but again if the only person really making noise about it is us then I doubt they even care.
We are on the bottom of the "let's make happy" list....if we are even on the list.

I like auto-start technology. Works with my P10 well enough.

Never liked auto-off technology. Loud noises first thing in the morning just aren't my thing. I tell my Google mini to shut up, turn off my blower, THEN remove the mask, with no sound of hurricane-force winds.

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:09 pm

What pressure are you using?

I think it's 10-16. I use medium pillows

JayDee wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:27 am

Here's a question -- can/does ResMed update the machine (software or firmware) via the cellular connection? I'm wondering if something got updated/changed because I don't think this SmartStart problem existed when the machine was new... I think this F30 is my 5th or 6th mask. Within my first year, I went through FFMs, Pillows, Nasals and I've only recently noticed the issue.

The ResMed AirSense 10 line is capable of Over-The-Air firmware updates, but to my knowledge, it's only been done once.

In early 2015 an upgrade was pushed to address a problem where static discharge could disable the humidifier. Prior to the OTA update, ResMed announced an upgrade was coming.

I doubt that your machine has had an update. There has been no announcement by ResMed and no one else has noticed an update. You could lookup your Device Software Version ID's to see if their's been a change.

Mine is SX567-0306, hasn't changed in the year and a half I've had it.

JayDee wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:27 am

Here's a question -- can/does ResMed update the machine (software or firmware) via the cellular connection? I'm wondering if something got updated/changed because I don't think this SmartStart problem existed when the machine was new... I think this F30 is my 5th or 6th mask. Within my first year, I went through FFMs, Pillows, Nasals and I've only recently noticed the issue.

Another idea is that I do have bad leaks, but they don't wake me up and my sleep quality and numbers are otherwise good. Since these are machines that sort of "learn", could it be that I've trained the machine to ignore the "big leak" when I remove the mask?

Just spit-balling idea...

Thanks,
-JD

Perhaps changes in mask manufacturing to reduce manufacturing costs.

My preference on the AutoStop side of the algorithm is for a machine that is not sensitive. In fact, a machine with the capability to enable/disable AutoStart and AutoStop independent of each other would be a first choice. I would leave AutoStop disabled. If the mask accidentally comes off while sleeping, the rush of air has a chance of waking you before you get slammed by a cluster of long apneas.

JayDee wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:27 am

Since these are machines that sort of "learn",

Pugsy is right, the machines don't learn anything at all.

You could say that the 'for her' does learn a little bit, since it can adjust the minimum pressure upwards in a session, but the moment you turn it off and back on, it's back to whatever it's settings were set to.

The AutoSets don't even do that much self adjustment.

My problem was the machine shutting off on its own while I was asleep. I would wake up (fortunately for me) breath forcefully into my mask and it would start back up. After three episodes of that (I am admittedly a slow learner) I turned that little comfort/convenience app off and have had no issues since.

Old school on/off button rules!
JPB

Auto-on is enough for me.
If I happen to sleep through a power outage, i regain cpap as the "juice" comes back on.
Sometimes without losing sleep.

chunkyfrog wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:54 pm

Taking the mask off has no effect.
Unplugging the mask from the hose works IMMEDIATELY.
Go figure.

At this point you answered your question. Auto off does work, however your mask, or settings are causing the machine to think it needs to remain on. Fiddling with the settings or a different mask would be the way to fix the issue.

dojiscalper wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:25 pm

chunkyfrog wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:54 pm

Taking the mask off has no effect.
Unplugging the mask from the hose works IMMEDIATELY.
Go figure.

At this point you answered your question. Auto off does work, however your mask, or settings are causing the machine to think it needs to remain on. Fiddling with the settings or a different mask would be the way to fix the issue.

Not changing anything! Easiest way is to reach over.
The current settings are perfect otherwise.
The only problem was a couple weeks about 16 moths ago, when I had rotator cuff problems.
Even then, it forced me into stretches that actually helped my shoulder.