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I live in Indiana and it's illegal for any use. This state will be the last one to legalize it. However, just a short drive to both IL and MI.

dreamingofdreaming wrote: ↑

Thu May 09, 2019 11:54 am

I live in Indiana and it's illegal for any use. This state will be the last one to legalize it. However, just a short drive to both IL and MI.

There are many perfectly legal drugs and supplements on the shelves of your local drugstore that are sold cheaply over the counter that can mess up your sleep for you just as royally, if that's what you really want.

jnk... wrote: ↑

Tue May 07, 2019 3:43 pm

Unfortunately, many things that can seriously damage our sleep can also give us a false sense of improved sleep. That can make anecdotal accounts more misleading than helpful. Alcohol is a prime example of that fact.

There's a great deal of sunshine between alcohol and marijuana for improving sleep. Alcohol is a trainwreck for supporting healthy sleep, loaded with sugar and changing neurotransmitters. Marijuana, specifically CBDs and Terpenes show a great deal of promise supporting healthy sleep, although it's important to note that it's not a one size fits all solution and important to work with a cannabis clinic or doctor.

babydinosnoreless wrote: ↑

Tue May 07, 2019 4:23 pm

I lived in a state where recreational was legal I tried both the balance (equal amounts of cbd and thc ) and the elevate (higher thc) tinctures (Strainz brand) and it did nothing for my arthritis. I also tried cbd only. None of it ever felt like it did anything.

Not sure if you were working with a professional, be it at the dispensary or clinic, but much of the results are depending on who's care you are under and their focus. Each variety has its own cannabinoid and terpene profile and subtly different effects, so it's important to have a good working relationship to sort things out.

My Mom uses a topical balm for arthritis and pain from vascular disease and has had quite positive results, 50mg CBD/50mg THC in a 2oz container. Relief comes pretty quick for her, inside of about 15 minutes and she has a good working relationship with the dispensary agent (Budtender).

ChicagoGranny wrote: ↑

Wed May 08, 2019 8:56 am

Has the improvement been in obstructive or central apneas?

I've seen improvements in both, but primarily reduced the number of central apneas.

jnk... wrote: ↑

Wed May 08, 2019 12:02 pm

tyrone747 wrote: ↑

Wed May 08, 2019 11:43 am

Careful with marijuana because it suppresses REM sleep. If you don't believe me smoke it for a long time then stop and watch the REM rebound hard.

In support of your statement:

Low doses of THC (4 to 20 mg) mildly decreased REM sleep in both regular users and nonusers. Interestingly, deep sleep was increased when cannabis was initially used but this effect disappeared after repeated use. With high doses of THC (50 to 210 mg) REM sleep was decreased in both regular users and nonusers. Total sleep time was not affected but deep sleep was decreased. When THC was stopped some rebound in REM sleep was found with reduced sleep time and increased time to fall asleep. Some people do have withdrawal symptoms when stopping prolonged and heavy use of cannabis and this can adversely affect sleep. . . . Many sleeping medications, such as the benzodiazepines, convert deep sleep into lighter sleep, so that while the total amount of sleep may be modestly increased, it may not be of optimal quality. Certainly anyone who has used alcohol to help sleep knows that in the long run, it really doesn’t. In fact, while alcohol initially can make you drowsy and even increases deep sleep, it later causes sleep to be light and fragmented. -- https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... -and-sleep

From the article,

As it turns out cannabis is an exceedingly complex drug preparation and its effects depend on the variety of the plant, the composition of the chemicals in any given sample, the route of administration, the setting in which it is used and the psychological set of the user.

In other words, it's not a one trick pony and working with a professional will deliver the best results. There is a great deal that needs to be learned and real clinical studies that replace the anecdotal information that's available. The strain and variety of marijuana knowledge of who you are dealing with are paramount.

jpop wrote: ↑

Sun May 12, 2019 8:09 am

babydinosnoreless wrote: ↑

Tue May 07, 2019 4:23 pm

I lived in a state where recreational was legal I tried both the balance (equal amounts of cbd and thc ) and the elevate (higher thc) tinctures (Strainz brand) and it did nothing for my arthritis. I also tried cbd only. None of it ever felt like it did anything.

Not sure if you were working with a professional, be it at the dispensary or clinic, but much of the results are depending on who's care you are under and their focus. Each variety has its own cannabinoid and terpene profile and subtly different effects, so it's important to have a good working relationship to sort things out.

My Mom uses a topical balm for arthritis and pain from vascular disease and has had quite positive results, 50mg CBD/50mg THC in a 2oz container. Relief comes pretty quick for her, inside of about 15 minutes and she has a good working relationship with the dispensary agent (Budtender).

One of my kids SO works in the industry. So yes I worked with someone knowledgeable on the subject. I tried topicals first. It did nothing for me. I'm glad it worked for your mom. I've heard lots of good things but sadly it didn't help me.

babydinosnoreless wrote: ↑

Sun May 12, 2019 9:45 am

One of my kids SO works in the industry. So yes I worked with someone knowledgeable on the subject. I tried topicals first. It did nothing for me. I'm glad it worked for your mom. I've heard lots of good things but sadly it didn't help me.

Fair enough, and coming off surgery I have found no pain relief with the products I returned from the dispensary with last week. With a different dispensary, a staff that didn't seem as dialed in or as knowledgeable, and a panacea wasn't a takeaway. Next time I do more of my own homework.

Typically certain strains are better for pain then others. I generally try to keep healthy and exercise daily and have regular muscle pain. Smoking or vaping ( I prefer to vape) before I go to sleep helps my pain. I had a sports injury last year and found it very hard to walk. ( pulled some muscle In my abdominal area and whenever I turned my waist it would scream with pain). Defiantly look into which strains are more for pain relief, but yes from my experience weed had helped my pain. I’d do some research to see which doctors in your area prescribe and make an appointment https://dr-weedy.com/medical-marijuana-card-oakland/ Sooner rather than later since you appear to be almost out of weed. Good luck!

I have not used cannabis for sleep issues but have explored it's use for other medical issues (cervical radiculopathy and for muscle spasms as an alternative to muscle relaxants like flexeril).
The biggest problem with medical marijuana is defining what that means. Most people only know about two cannabinoids, THC and CBD. There are more than 50 cannabinoids with some identified that are efficacious for a variety of medical issues.

https://www.leafly.com/news/cannabis-10 ... is-effects

Many pharmaceutical companies have been launched to exploit potential uses of cannabinoids.
https://biopharmguy.com/links/company-b ... nnabis.php

Of particular interest, scientists have noted that it often is a combination of certain cannabinoids that lead to desire effects. What's incredibly sad is that the public think THC and/or CBD is medicinal and are ignorant or ignore other biologically active cannabinoids. To focus on only those two molecules very much narrows the potential for efficacious effects! Note that some people steer clear of THC as they don't want to get high. I think it important to note that some cannabinoid medicinal effects may need the addition of small amounts of THC..not enough to get high, but instead for combination effects (synergy).

So...know your source of cannabinoid. If its just purified THC or CBD, you might not be exploring the potential effects of medical marijuana. I'd suggest buying flower. The amount of THC and CBD will be quantified. Unfortunately, you will not get a breakdown of other cannabinoids in the flower..but you can get a sense of potential effects from user reviews. Stick with whatever strain(s) are reported to have an affect on your condition. Initially smoke the flower but ultimately use the flower for baking and ingest the medicine (as smoking greatly increases the potential for cancer!!!).

Hopefully in the coming years scientists will have a better understanding of the biological activities of cannabinoid combinations. When buying THC and/or CBD, at a later date one will hopefully be provided information about the other cannabinoids in the prep purchased.

I need to revise what I said earlier on the subject. In Nevada where rec was legal it did not help and I had tried topicals as well as tinctures. Here where it is medicinal only, it worked much better for me. There is a tincture that is formulated by a doctor that incorporates cbd, thc as well as botanicals. It is a hybrid indica blend. I was skeptical at first but was talked into getting my medical card. This tincture works for me. I do not get a high feeling but I do sleep really well and my AHI is more frequently zero. I'm not sure if the pain is gone or if I am just sleeping through it but it has helped, IMO. It is especially welcome when it is cold and I am super stiff and sore.

babydinosnoreless wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:05 pm

I need to revise what I said earlier on the subject. In Nevada where rec was legal it did not help and I had tried topicals as well as tinctures. Here where it is medicinal only, it worked much better for me. There is a tincture that is formulated by a doctor that incorporates cbd, thc as well as botanicals. It is a hybrid indica blend. I was skeptical at first but was talked into getting my medical card. This tincture works for me. I do not get a high feeling but I do sleep really well and my AHI is more frequently zero. I'm not sure if the pain is gone or if I am just sleeping through it but it has helped, IMO. It is especially welcome when it is cold and I am super stiff and sore.

The use of formulations that have different concentrations/ratios of various cannabinoids makes a lot of sense and is the best path forward re medicinal cannabis IMO. I strongly assume that "boticanicals" is one way of saying additional cannabinoids are in the prep. I like that THC can be present (as it can strongly potentiate the effects of other cannabinoids) but not necessarily at concentrations that will get a patient high.

At some point, pharmacists/medical marijuana specialists will have good sources of concentrated, quantified amounts of other cannabinoids like CBN, CBC, CBL, CBV, THCV, CBDV, CBGV, CBGM, CBE and CBT. Also, cannabinoids will be grouped according to evidence for efficacy for particular indications (including when used in combination).

Very complex stuff..but clearly the science is heading in that direction, which will be a vast improvement vs. the frequent selling of snake oil equivalents to the masses.

Mr Nosey wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:35 am

babydinosnoreless wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:05 pm

I need to revise what I said earlier on the subject. In Nevada where rec was legal it did not help and I had tried topicals as well as tinctures. Here where it is medicinal only, it worked much better for me. There is a tincture that is formulated by a doctor that incorporates cbd, thc as well as botanicals. It is a hybrid indica blend. I was skeptical at first but was talked into getting my medical card. This tincture works for me. I do not get a high feeling but I do sleep really well and my AHI is more frequently zero. I'm not sure if the pain is gone or if I am just sleeping through it but it has helped, IMO. It is especially welcome when it is cold and I am super stiff and sore.

The use of formulations that have different concentrations/ratios of various cannabinoids makes a lot of sense and is the best path forward re medicinal cannabis IMO. I strongly assume that "boticanicals" is one way of saying additional cannabinoids are in the prep. I like that THC can be present (as it can strongly potentiate the effects of other cannabinoids) but not necessarily at concentrations that will get a patient high.

At some point, pharmacists/medical marijuana specialists will have good sources of concentrated, quantified amounts of other cannabinoids like CBN, CBC, CBL, CBV, THCV, CBDV, CBGV, CBGM, CBE and CBT. Also, cannabinoids will be grouped according to evidence for efficacy for particular indications (including when used in combination).

Very complex stuff..but clearly the science is heading in that direction, which will be a vast improvement vs. the frequent selling of snake oil equivalents to the masses.

Oh sorry just saw this message, I missed it before. Botanicals are things like valerian officinalis and salix alba. Here is their website. It explains it much better than me.

https://www.drburnsreleaf.com/

Some of our oldest and most effective medicines have evolved from "snake oil".
Simple aspirin was developed after observing indigenous people using willow bark tea for pain.

chunkyfrog wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:43 pm

Some of our oldest and most effective medicines have evolved from "snake oil".
Simple aspirin was developed after observing indigenous people using willow bark tea for pain.

Yes, I'm well aware of many of the legacy snake oil products and how some were established as efficacious/grounded in science after rigorous evaluation (I have > 30 years of drug discovery experience). I've no doubt that some CBD preps are efficacious for some conditions in some people (in fact, a particular formulation of CBD is an approved drug for rare forms of epilepsy..Epidiolex/Lennox-Gastaut syndrome and Dravet syndrome).

Unfortunately, there has been an explosion of CBD products where the constituents and quantity are often unknown and lacking quality control. Millions of dollars are being wasted on CBD products that are snake oil (bogus).