CPAPtalk.com

Mattman,

No need to regret posting your thoughts... that is what this forum is about.

I do not have the time to comment on them all, but several of them are so off base (IMHO) that I felt the need to at least respond to a few.

1. You quote my statement: "The fact that ResMed gave in to this pressure and concocted a lie to support their actions shows a lack of character." suggesting it's conjecture.
I make this comment based on words spoken directly from the mouths of ResMed company officials in their Q4 conference call. Granted they did not say it in those exact words LOL! But if that is your standard of proof, you will never know the truth.

2. Mattman wrote: Additionally, remember that an agency that bills Medicare is not able to charge a cash sale customer less than the Medicare allowable... Disagree with it all you like, but there really is an element of fairness in this. Traditional DME companies simply cannot compete with an online retailer due to things beyond their control. Between the licensing and certification requirements and the minimum pricing levels set by Medicare the cost of business is simply exponentially higher.
You think this is good or fair???? Suppose you are one who has to pay cash for your equipment and the only supplier available is the who is charging exponentially higher rates... how is that good or fair??? This aspect that you refer to as an "element of fairness" is one of the things about the US health system that is completely screwed up.

3. Mattman wrote: Logically there HAVE to be both good and bad examples of both types of business. Therefore ResMeds statements that they were concerned about patient care through online providers has to have an element of truth to it.
I'll once again quote the ResMed official "Online retailers who sell CPAPs at prices so discounted that they can't afford to offer follow-up service, maintenance or education." There is no "element of truth" in this statement. They are saying unless the online retailers charge more they will be unable to provide support. This forum and the many others things that cpap.com does proves that to be completely false.

4. Mattman wrote: Someone once asked and I haven't yet heard an answer to this: The one market segment people seem most concerned about are uninsured patients paying cash over the internet. Who says ResMed (or any manufacturer) has any responsibility to that market segment?
They don't! ...but that doesn't mean it's not the right thing to do.

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): resmed, cpap.com, medicare, DME

Didn't I read in another thread (sometime in the past month or two when Mike2000 was posting as a guest) that Mike2000 works for Resmed in Australia?

Is that correct?

Mike2000 wrote:I think you'll find that internet selling makes up a very small percent of the total market (5% maybe) and we are also only talking the US which again is not the whole market. If you look at other online sellers from around the world, their prices have not gone up.

This is something I really can't figure out: If internet selling makes up a very small percent of the market - 5% - why in the world are the B&M DME's and the big chemists so threatened that they have fight this?

If you don't want to pay the money, buy something else it's simple.

That is exactly the point. I urge anyone who can not to buy this company's equipment.

As for Lamborginis - their price is decided by what people will pay for them - they would be sold for peanuts of nobody bought them - regardless of quality. Can you imagine Lamborgini restricting the sale of advanced auto-scanning features to garage owners only? They are not so foolish.


Is med-res equipment equivalent to a Lamborgini?
Well lets put it this way - does med-res have any machine with exhalation relief in automatic mode? No it does not.
Respironics does.

Lamborgini? Delusions of grandeur are not a symptom of mental health...

Mike2000 wrote: You guys are all crazy

Nor is projection.

O.

ozij wrote:
Is med-res equipment equivalent to a Lamborgini?
Well lets put it this way - does med-res have any machine with exhalation relief in automatic mode? No it does not.
Respironics does.

Yes, but ResMed does have the VPAP Adapt SV, which Respironics doesn't have anything similar to yet in the US. It is the ulitmate in 'auto'-pap's, adjusting on a second by second basis to what is needed. Does anyone else think its unusual ResMed's policy change happened at almost the same time they rolled out the Adapt for national distribution?

Before anyone gets the impression that the ResMed VPAP Adapt SV is the ultimate for every form of sleep disordered breathing (and I realize that's not what you were trying to convey, Christine) I'd suggest really digging into the posts by StillAnotherGuest and -SWS. Take a really close look at StillAnotherGuest's post regarding the possibility of runaway pressures and/or problematic treatment with that machine for some people:

viewtopic.php?t=11458

This post in particular on page 13 of that topic:



---(It took two screen shots to capture the entire post -- bottom of the graph is repeated here)---



Respironics developed an ASV machine: BiPAP AutoSV™ or HeartPAP™ as it's also known. I don't know if it's available yet in the U.S. Perhaps it's still undergoing FDA trials.

http://www.touchbriefings.com/pdf/1755/Wensel.pdf

An ASV machine is very effective for SOME people's sleep disordered breathing. But I believe such machines are very much a niche product at this point -- working well for some very specific types of SDB -- most notably to correct Cheyne-Stokes Respiration in people with Congestive Heart Failure.

Perhaps they can work well for other types of central sleep apnea or Complex Sleep Disordered Breathing, too. That's still being investigated. But I don't think ASV machines are some kind of better "autopap" in general for all...or even for most people. (Again, I know that's not what you were saying, Christine.)

Rested Gal-

You're right, I didn't explain myself very well-lol. My slant was as far as comparing to cars, no regular CPAP or autoCPAPs are in the Lamborgini catergory, but the more specilized ones, like VPAP Adapt SV & AutoSV/HeartPap (which only seems to be available in Germany at this point), could be.

I do think eventually technology used in the Adapt will trickle down to other other BiPAPs & eventually CPAPs- we've seen that happen in the past with CFlex & EPR. I think the next few years are going to be interesting to see how technology will change not only our machines, but also with diagnositics becoming more advanced to recognize there is more to SBD then AHI & O2 desats.

christinequilts wrote:. I think the next few years are going to be interesting to see how technology will change not only our machines, but also with diagnositics becoming more advanced to recognize there is more to SBD then AHI & O2 desats.

...Or we all grow a third eye and they realize cpap is not as safe as they thought LOL!

christinequilts wrote:I do think eventually technology used in the Adapt will trickle down to other other BiPAPs & eventually CPAPs- we've seen that happen in the past with CFlex & EPR. I think the next few years are going to be interesting to see how technology will change not only our machines, but also with diagnositics becoming more advanced to recognize there is more to SBD then AHI & O2 desats.

I think you're absolutely right, Christine.

neversleeps wrote:Didn't I read in another thread (sometime in the past month or two when Mike2000 was posting as a guest) that Mike2000 works for Resmed in Australia?

Is that correct?

I use ResMed gear and they are an Australian company so I support the locals but I am not going to get hung up on their policies. If I was in the US and buying my next mask, I'd probably look at other options now but that is my choice as it is everyone elses.

My theory is that we operate in a free market (Australia and the US). If you don't want to pay for something because it's expensive then you buy something else. They are only affecting their own prices so buy Respironics or FPH if you want to, it doesn't bother me.

My point is that there are more important things in life to worry about, like family, Christmas is coming up etc etc.

I didn't mean to offend, I'm just frustrated that so many people are using up good energy on this issue.

Vote with your wallets and see what happens.

Mike2000 wrote:

My theory is that we operate in a free market (Australia and the US). If you don't want to pay for something because it's expensive then you buy something else. They are only affecting their own prices so buy Respironics or FPH if you want to, it doesn't bother me.

boy is your theory FLAWED, it wasn't the US that imposed export restrictions on Resmad equipment, it was Resmad themselves. It wasn't the US that imposed higher prices for the same items it was Resmad.

In a free marketplace you can sell what ever you want where ever you want to sell it without restriction, that is a free market.

Mike says........
"Using up good energy on this" ????

Mike, It is our energy to use as we choose.


Mike says......
"My point is that there are more important things in life to worry about, like family, Christmas is coming up etc etc."

IN YOUR OPINION there are more important things. Please don't force your values or your religion on me Mike.

Everyone can express their opinions, please don't attack mine.

Let me know when we are over this and I'll come back.

I am not the one who started with the opinions.

People wasting their time on issues that concern them bothers you????

WHY?? Why would that concern you at all what other people spend there time doing. Sounded like a lecture to me.


Trying to tell people that there are more important things to worry about?

Yes that is your opinion, not mine but you stated it like it was a given for all and sounded like you were admonishing people THEIR opinions. I think we can all decide what is important in our own lives and decide where to spend our time without help from your posts.

Oh and by the way Mike,

I don't think "WE" will ever be over the issue of others dictating what our values should be. At least I won't and that is my opinion.