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I'm 100% with RG, Wulfman, and Rock and Roll on this one. I was considering a resmed product, and almost did, when I was shopping for my first machine. Fortunately this issue was posted and I switched my choice to a RemStar - I sleep better just knowing that I did. When $$$ is the bottom line the rich get richer, most often at the expense of the poor and less fortunate. This move is just another way of putting more dollars in the pockets of the already wealthy at the expense of those that are struggling through life. Like a bully in the school yard. That's why the middle class is dwindling away. What's right about that! I think Rested gal put it very well and appreciate her lengthy posts. I have, am, and will continue to boycott resmed, wether it hurts their bottom line or not, just because it is the right thing to do - also - as I have mentioned, it makes me sleep better . --- BT

byront wrote:Fortunately this issue was posted and I switched my choice to a RemStar - I sleep better just knowing that I did. When $$$ is the bottom line the rich get richer, most often at the expense of the poor and less fortunate. This move is just another way of putting more dollars in the pockets of the already wealthy at the expense of those that are struggling through life. Like a bully in the school yard. --- BT

Regardless of my agreement with ResMed or not, you do realize that none of this is going to make 'the rich get richer...at the expense of the poor' correct?
The only extra dollars from this minimum price level:
a) Go to the internet retailars and
b) Are going to be very minimal anyways

None of this goes to DME companies, Insurance companies or Resmed. It all is paid to the internet retailers.

Guest,

Extra dollars due to price increases may not go to ResMed, but the items not bought from them will indeed keep dollars from going to that company.
And that loss of sales in general will speak for itself.

And I expect your next argument will be that these boycotts are not large enough to do Resmed harm. Maybe this is so but maybe not too. It is the only way consumers have of fighting back.

Anonymous wrote:Regardless of my agreement with ResMed or not, you do realize that none of this is going to make 'the rich get richer...at the expense of the poor' correct?
The only extra dollars from this minimum price level:
a) Go to the internet retailars and


b) Are going to be very minimal anyways

None of this goes to DME companies, Insurance companies or Resmed. It all is paid to the internet retailers.

Guest - Resmed is certainly not doing this to make "certain" Internet Retailers rich so...why? If it is not in their self-interest - why? It may not make the rich richer, in the short term, but it certainly going to make those who pay out of pocket poorer.

I'm glad that 40-45% is very minimal to you. It must be a very nice place to be in. I just ordered $163 of Resmed parts. A 40% increase would have meant an extra $65. That ain't minimal to me but I am happy for your good fortune if it is for you.

David

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): resmed, DME

Anonymous wrote:

byront wrote:Fortunately this issue was posted and I switched my choice to a RemStar - I sleep better just knowing that I did. When $$$ is the bottom line the rich get richer, most often at the expense of the poor and less fortunate. This move is just another way of putting more dollars in the pockets of the already wealthy at the expense of those that are struggling through life. Like a bully in the school yard. --- BT

Regardless of my agreement with ResMed or not, you do realize that none of this is going to make 'the rich get richer...at the expense of the poor' correct?
The only extra dollars from this minimum price level:
a) Go to the internet retailers and
b) Are going to be very minimal anyways

None of this goes to DME companies, Insurance companies or Resmed. It all is paid to the internet retailers.

If this is not an attempt to shift the business back into the hands of the dme's then what's the point? You surely don't believe that resmed really has the patients best interests in mind! Many people buy through the internet because they have found that they can actually get a better machine for less than their copay would be, had they gone through their dme - and they don't get jacked around. That market would be most likely lost and diverted back into the hands of the dme. If other manufacturers should decide to follow I would believe it would drastically effect the internets sales market and the dme would be greatly benefitted. And what about the uninsured. I suspect that most of them buy through the internet. If equipment prices were forced up to meet the outrageous high prices demanded by the dme suppliers then the dme's would have a chance at tapping into that market also. Do you think that the internet retailers have been pushing for this? No, it's the dme's in part that I believe are pushing this ahead and resmed will profit greatly by having their equipment favored by the dme's - you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours. There is some reading between the lines that needs to be done to clearly see the focus of this move Guest. --- BT

Just wanted to add that this has been one of the best debates on this issue I have seen at cpaptalk.

Everyone has put forward their views in a surprisingly moderate tone & without any of the sometimes over the top remarks about Resmed or counter critical remarks from one perspective having a go at the other.

Very impressive. The points all tend to be very good ones.

Just wanted to pass this feedback on.

Re what Resmed are doing. Time will tell - I would really like to hear from one of their senior execs what the real motivation behind this is. On the surface it comes across very negatively.

As for Resmed's shares - would love to own some (I don't) but would have preferred to have bought some 2 years ago. Am not sure where they are headed in the next 12 months. I guess that depends on if they have something clever up their sleves product wise but that is only speculation on my part.

DSM

dsm wrote:Just wanted to add that this has been one of the best debates on this issue I have seen at cpaptalk.

From what I have seen there is little "debate" going on here just some expression of opinion but I am so proud to have met with your approval - I'll have to go get someone to calm me down.

My opnion is that the number one concern for all CPAP Manufacturers should be to get units in the hands of as many people that need them as soon as possible. We'd be a healthier nation for it. Maybe Resmed sees DSMs as the best way for now to accomplish that goal.

Snoozin' Bluezzz wrote:Guest - Resmed is certainly not doing this to make "certain" Internet Retailers rich so...why?

Well this is the sticky part. You (collective 'you') either believe ResMed when they say why or not. They stated they felt it was the best course of action to ensure quality of care. You can either accept that, or believe that there is something else going on.
Now I don't automatically take everything everyone tells me at face value. However - and this is important - I also don't automatically think everyone is lying either.
So I look at the big picture.
1) This doesn't make any more money for them.
2) They know this will anger some people.
3) It may cause higher DME customer loyalty.
4) The possible (stress POSSIBLE) revenue enhancement that could come from increased DME purchases will most liekly be mostly offset by the decrease in internet outlet sales. (IE - not much in either channel)

So what does that leave? Well it leaves mostly bad publicity for very little benefit. So why would someone go out on a limb like that for very little reward? The only logical reason I see is that the believe what they are saying - that they believe it will increase quality of patient care.

Snoozin' Bluezzz wrote:I'm glad that 40-45% is very minimal to you. It must be a very nice place to be in. I just ordered $163 of Resmed parts. A 40% increase would have meant an extra $65. That ain't minimal to me but I am happy for your good fortune if it is for you.

I wasn't implying that at all. I was making the point to counter the statement about 'the rich getting richer while keeping the little guy down'. Since the money isn't GOING to the "evil rich" (ie- ResMed) but rather going to the "good rich" (The internet retailers) AND that the sales are going to be lower (since cash purchase sales will surely be lower) the aggregate increase of dollars will be neglible. I feel pretty comfortable saying the higher dollar amount he gets from now on most likely won't be a big deal to him.

byront wrote: You surely don't believe that resmed really has the patients best interests in mind!

Yeah, I really do. See above ^

byront wrote:And what about the uninsured.

I still want to know why ResMed has an obligation to the uninsured. That keeps coming up for a lot of people.

byront wrote: Many people buy through the internet because they have found that they can actually get a better machine for less than their copay would be

If equipment prices were forced up to meet the outrageous high prices demanded by the dme suppliers

Then why not fight for the right for the DME companies to sell at whatever price they want? The two companies I've dealt directly with have both stated they would LOVE to sell for less - they aren't allowed to do so.

This is a very common misconception that the DME companies determine the price they bill insurance and the price they sell to cash customers.The fact is that Federal Law states they cannot sell for less than what Medicare has determined the price to be. Further, most insurance companies will add in a clause stating that a DME company cannot sell for less than what that particular insurance company has set the pricing at.
Why do you think the host here has 5 or 6 or whatever it is different business setup around the internet??? It isn't because they enjoy having all these different companies (I don't think it is at least. Heck, maybe he does? ) I would be willing to bet my CPAP that it's to shield himself from the various laws and contracts that billmyinsurance and cpapforseniors and any other of the websites/business that bill under contract.
So what we have is:
Insurance companies say 'You can't sell this for less than X dollars'
Medicare says, 'You can't sell this for less than y dollars'.
So fight against that. Argue for that. Write to congress. Get THAT changed and all the problems are solved everywhere.

byront wrote:Do you think that the internet retailers have been pushing for this?

That's an interesting question, isn't it? For all the belief by people that companies are just in it for the money and are greed driven - why hasn't anyone wondered about this? I mean really - they are the ones to stand to make more money in the forseeable future? I certainly don't think they have pushed for it since as I stated I think ResMed did do this for the stated reason. I just think it's interesting that no one HAS accused the internet sellers of wanting more money.

byront wrote:No, it's the dme's in part that I believe are pushing this ahead and resmed will profit greatly by having their equipment favored by the dme's - you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours.

While I do believe the 'you scratch my back...' philosphy is a perfect legitimate and valid way of doing business, I don't think the effect will be nearly as profound as people think. We aren't talking a commodity here, we are talking a item that is very, very patient preference driven. Toss into the mix the doctors having preferences as well and you see the point.
The DME companies I've dealt with have to have large selections of products to satisfy all the various doctors and patients. Yes they each have machines and masks they prefer for several reasons (Most seeming to revolve around 'This one generates the fewest service calls and complaints.' ).
Now throw in TV, radio and print advertising. Come on, who here didn't come looking for information on the cpap pro as soon as we heard those commercials??
So I'm back to my belief that this really won't generate the massive influx of business - and I bet ResMed doesn't think so either. Sure it will generate some extra business but it isn't going to be enough to put anyones kids through college or anything.
As I've said before though, this is all just one dumb guys opinion who really has nothing vested in this. I don't own, work for or have stock in ResMed, internet retailers, dme companies, doctors offices, oil rigs, offshore betting tracks or anything. I did stay at a Holiday Inn a couple months ago though.

Not worrying about any obligation on resmed to anybody. I am merely reacting as a consumer to a decision they made. They lost me as a customer because of their decision and my only tool to react to it is to not do business with them.

rock and roll wrote:Not worrying about any obligation on resmed to anybody. I am merely reacting as a consumer to a decision they made. They lost me as a customer because of their decision and my only tool to react to it is to not do business with them.

And you know what, I don't see how anyone could possibly find fault in that. Doing it because you just don't agree with the companys choice is absolutely anyones right.

Random sidebar - holy cow I can't believe I wrote that much in the post above rnr's! lol

Guest -

Well if Resmed really had the "patient's best interest in mind" then are not the uninsured patients best interest worthy of of Resmed's concern?

Ahhh ... the Federal Medicare laws. Yes and who buys the politicians that make those laws ... can you say phar-ma-ceu-ti-cals? Take a look at the board of directors for Resmed and see how many of them come from the pharmaceuticals industry ... and not forget the insurance lobbies either.

Write congress? Ha! These days one must buy congress not write them.

I agree with the other Guest comment though ... there is just not enough information getting out to OSA patients.

- r

Snoozin Bluzzz,

As my grandkids teachers tend to say 'thanks for sharing that'

Debate: Seems like one to me ? - looks very much like two perspectives of the price hike issue being commented on.

DSM

(do hope you are feeling better now )

Anonymous wrote:

Snoozin' Bluezzz wrote:Guest - Resmed is certainly not doing this to make "certain" Internet Retailers rich so...why?

Well this is the sticky part. You (collective 'you') either believe ResMed when they say why or not. They stated they felt it was the best course of action to ensure quality of care. You can either accept that, or believe that there is something else going on.
Now I don't automatically take everything everyone tells me at face value. However - and this is important - I also don't automatically think everyone is lying either.
So I look at the big picture.
1) This doesn't make any more money for them.
2) They know this will anger some people.
3) It may cause higher DME customer loyalty.
4) The possible (stress POSSIBLE) revenue enhancement that could come from increased DME purchases will most liekly be mostly offset by the decrease in internet outlet sales. (IE - not much in either channel)

So what does that leave? Well it leaves mostly bad publicity for very little benefit. So why would someone go out on a limb like that for very little reward? The only logical reason I see is that the believe what they are saying - that they believe it will increase quality of patient care.

Snoozin' Bluezzz wrote:I'm glad that 40-45% is very minimal to you. It must be a very nice place to be in. I just ordered $163 of Resmed parts. A 40% increase would have meant an extra $65. That ain't minimal to me but I am happy for your good fortune if it is for you.

I wasn't implying that at all. I was making the point to counter the statement about 'the rich getting richer while keeping the little guy down'. Since the money isn't GOING to the "evil rich" (ie- ResMed) but rather going to the "good rich" (The internet retailers) AND that the sales are going to be lower (since cash purchase sales will surely be lower) the aggregate increase of dollars will be neglible. I feel pretty comfortable saying the higher dollar amount he gets from now on most likely won't be a big deal to him.

byront wrote: You surely don't believe that resmed really has the patients best interests in mind!

Yeah, I really do. See above ^

byront wrote:And what about the uninsured.

I still want to know why ResMed has an obligation to the uninsured. That keeps coming up for a lot of people.

byront wrote: Many people buy through the internet because they have found that they can actually get a better machine for less than their copay would be

If equipment prices were forced up to meet the outrageous high prices demanded by the dme suppliers

Then why not fight for the right for the DME companies to sell at whatever price they want? The two companies I've dealt directly with have both stated they would LOVE to sell for less - they aren't allowed to do so.

This is a very common misconception that the DME companies determine the price they bill insurance and the price they sell to cash customers.The fact is that Federal Law states they cannot sell for less than what Medicare has determined the price to be. Further, most insurance companies will add in a clause stating that a DME company cannot sell for less than what that particular insurance company has set the pricing at.
Why do you think the host here has 5 or 6 or whatever it is different business setup around the internet??? It isn't because they enjoy having all these different companies (I don't think it is at least. Heck, maybe he does? ) I would be willing to bet my CPAP that it's to shield himself from the various laws and contracts that billmyinsurance and cpapforseniors and any other of the websites/business that bill under contract.
So what we have is:
Insurance companies say 'You can't sell this for less than X dollars'
Medicare says, 'You can't sell this for less than y dollars'.
So fight against that. Argue for that. Write to congress. Get THAT changed and all the problems are solved everywhere.

byront wrote:Do you think that the internet retailers have been pushing for this?

That's an interesting question, isn't it? For all the belief by people that companies are just in it for the money and are greed driven - why hasn't anyone wondered about this? I mean really - they are the ones to stand to make more money in the forseeable future? I certainly don't think they have pushed for it since as I stated I think ResMed did do this for the stated reason. I just think it's interesting that no one HAS accused the internet sellers of wanting more money.

byront wrote:No, it's the dme's in part that I believe are pushing this ahead and resmed will profit greatly by having their equipment favored by the dme's - you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours.

While I do believe the 'you scratch my back...' philosphy is a perfect legitimate and valid way of doing business, I don't think the effect will be nearly as profound as people think. We aren't talking a commodity here, we are talking a item that is very, very patient preference driven. Toss into the mix the doctors having preferences as well and you see the point.
The DME companies I've dealt with have to have large selections of products to satisfy all the various doctors and patients. Yes they each have machines and masks they prefer for several reasons (Most seeming to revolve around 'This one generates the fewest service calls and complaints.' ).
Now throw in TV, radio and print advertising. Come on, who here didn't come looking for information on the cpap pro as soon as we heard those commercials??
So I'm back to my belief that this really won't generate the massive influx of business - and I bet ResMed doesn't think so either. Sure it will generate some extra business but it isn't going to be enough to put anyones kids through college or anything.
As I've said before though, this is all just one dumb guys opinion who really has nothing vested in this. I don't own, work for or have stock in ResMed, internet retailers, dme companies, doctors offices, oil rigs, offshore betting tracks or anything. I did stay at a Holiday Inn a couple months ago though.

Simply BRILLIANT! I couldn't agree more. Thank you.

Chuck

P.S. I too have NO VESTED INTERESTS or ulterior motives. I'm a state government slug.

Well put Dreamstalker. --- BT