CPAPtalk.com

desiderata wrote:

49er wrote:I just don't understand this gang up on the newbie mentality on this board and never have. We have an opportunity to teach people the apnea basics and all we are doing is driving people away. I know things aren't going to change but I find it very frustrating.

It's a failure of compassion and pretty entrenched in society, unfortunately. With all the polarization, weak sense of community, and emotional disregulation out there in the world, some online-BB-rage is not surprising. There are best practices that can help, but they are at best only partially effective, esp. when the owners of the venue/communication channel are not willing to implement them.

Desiderata, your analysis is brilliant.

I have been lurking, following this thread and I got concerned enough to join so I can post.
I started CPAP almost 2 months ago. So far, the P10 pillow mask seems to give the best results. I feel I might need a full face mask since I have sinus allergies so I cannot always breath through my nose. The FFM I have tried did not seem to ive as good results as the pillows and they were more prone to leakage.

Apparently some people here think mouth breathing is forbidden. What about my situation? Is is better to not use CPAP when I cannot nose breathe? I have been considering the Resmed F20 mask since I tend to move around a lot, but I do not want to waste my money.

I have been hesitant to try and change any programming settings since my machine is technically on a 10 month rent-to-own contract mainly paid for by insurance.

I have the Autoset A10 unit with the heated tube.

prodigyplace wrote:Apparently some people here think mouth breathing is forbidden. What about my situation? Is is better to not use CPAP when I cannot nose breathe? I have been considering the Resmed F20 mask since I tend to move around a lot, but I do not want to waste my money.

I have been hesitant to try and change any programming settings since my machine is technically on a 10 month rent-to-own contract mainly paid for by insurance.

mouth breathing isn't forbidden, not at all, but it is far more likely to dry your mouth out, for the reasons stated above.

you may, however, find that the cpap helps keep your nose open, so that you don't need to mouthbreath, especially if you use the hypoallergenic filters, which helps reduce allergens, and may make your sinuses happier.

btw, I've never heard of any insurance, anywhere, *ever* caring if setting are changed, or even if the machine *works*... all they care about is that it's hanging off your face for enough hours each day.

Mouthbreathing is not forbidden, as long as you use a FF MASK properly. That allows your XPAP treatment to work.... It can have a few downsides, hard to keep leaks down, dry mouth, ect, but your sleep apnea is still treated.... Much better that using a nasal mask, and letting the treatment pressure run out of your mouth, then you are untreated.... Use the software to read the full data, to see what is really going on with your treatment. Jim

Thank you for the quick replies. CPAP helps some with avoiding mouth breathing but not a total solution for me.
Anybody have much experience with the F20 mask?

prodigyplace wrote:Apparently some people here think mouth breathing is forbidden. What about my situation? Is is better to not use CPAP when I cannot nose breathe? I

Welcome to the forum.

Mouth breathing can (please note I said can and not will) cause problems either with dry mouth, as discussed in this thread, or if mouth breathing takes place when using a nasal interface mask it can (again not necessarily will) lead to sub optimal therapy if/when the air going up the nose exits out the mouth and doesn't stay in the airway well enough to hold it open.
It all depends on just how much mouth breathing is going on and is the therapy pressure exiting the mouth or not.
And even if some therapy pressure is lost through mouth breathing it is only detrimental to the time spent with a large amount of mouth breathing. Meaning if you mouth breathe for 1 hour out of 8 hours of sleep...you still have 7 hours of very decent therapy. So it's not like the entire night's therapy ends up in the toilet...it's only the time spent with massive mouth breathing that ends up being sub optimal therapy. Obviously we like to keep the time at sub optimal therapy to a minimum but it's not the end of the world if we have problems maintaining a perfect record.

It is usually advised to have some sort of full face mask on hand just for the time where you simply can't get the nose opened up enough to use a nasal interface mask. That said...you might be surprised at how the air from the cpap will help open up the nose when it gets congested for whatever reason. I have been on cpap for nearly 8 years now and I have had my share of colds and upper respiratory infections and I have yet to have a situation where I couldn't get the nose cleared up enough to move enough air to use my nasal pillow mask. I didn't even own a full face mask until last year because I couldn't find one that didn't create more problems than it solved. I haven't yet had a situation where I just had to use a full face mask.

Watch the forum. Often forum members will offer a gently used mask for dirt cheap prices or even for free...they tried it and didn't like it for some reason or other but that doesn't mean you might not like it and for an emergency situation it might just get you by without your having to spend a lot of money on it or using up an insurance mask allowance on a mask you may not even need.

The F20 is fairly new to the market. Some people here have tried it but not a huge number of people.
This FFM is the only one I have been able to use successfully (I can't do any mask that touches on the bridge of my nose area).
https://www.cpap.com/productpage/respir ... -mask.html

If you buy from cpap.com check out their return insurance...sometimes it's free and sometimes for a small price.
You have 30 days from the time they ship to you to get it back to them and they will even send you a printable prepaid shipping label so if you hate the mask you don't lose your money.

I purchased one from another member and put a larger cushion on it. I really liked it. This is the first FFM that goes over my nose that I can get to seal around my nose without pulling it tight. I have a very narrow nose bridge which makes it difficult to get a mask to seal properly. This mask worked very well for me. The seal is very soft and pliable. When my wife started a 30 day test to see if the central apnea events settle down, she decided she liked my new mask. It is now her primary mask. When we order her a machine, we will order that mask for her. I was willing to do anything to make it easier for her as she begins using a machine while sleeping. I have had a machine for almost 2 years.

It is very interesting both of you mention the Amara View. Here is a bit of my history.
My therapy started with the P10. I had a mouth breathing issue and irritation from the P10 so I exchanged for a Quattro Air FFM.

I finally got the FFM to seal reasonably using tips from members here, but my AHI numbers were not nearly as good ad the P10. I think my best FFM AHI was near the worst P10 AHI.

I thought about the Quattro Liberty since it has nasal pillows like the P10. Lincare did not have it and time was short so I got an Amara View. I think it seals OK but th exhausting air seems to fall on my face around my eyes.

Since I was going away on a trip for a week, I bought a P10 myself. On my follow up visit, my LPN said the Quattro Liberty tends to leak a lot She gave me a smaller mask for the View and recommended the F&P Simplus. She also gave me a prescription.

I noticed on Cpap.com that there is no return on the Simplus so I was wary. I called them and they recommended the F20. I am not sure whether my insurance will pay for a mask yet since Lincare billed them for the original P10 & the Quattro Air. Although they credited me for the P10, they kept the insurance money. No wonder health care is so expensive!

tl:dr I have a Amara view and have issues with the exhausting air falling on my face & eyes. Any suggestions? Perhaps I should start a new thread but I think the OPs issue degraded into beating a dead horse.

Thanks again.

prodigyplace wrote:tl:dr I have a Quattro view and have issues with the exhausting air falling on my face & eyes. Any suggestions? Perhaps I should start a new thread but I think the OPs issue degraded into beating a dead horse.

Quattro View????? Did you mean Amara View? There is no quattro view that I am aware of.

And yes...for specific ideas devoted to your problem it is probably better to start a new thread of your own.
Your problems will get lost in this thread and a lot of people won't see it.

At cpap.com the Simplus doesn't come with free return insurance but it does have available insurance to purchase at around $25.
I know it's not as good as free but it makes the cost of the mask a lot less if you end up hating it.

I may know of a slightly used Simplus that isn't wanted anymore. Would you get too freaked out over trying a used mask? Gently used...not worn out used. If it is unwanted (which I think it probably is by now) all it would cost you is shipping.
Now if used freaks you out too much...that's okay. I know that used isn't for everyone.
Any idea what size you would take in the Simplus?

Pugsy wrote:

prodigyplace wrote:tl:dr I have a Quattro view and have issues with the exhausting air falling on my face & eyes. Any suggestions? Perhaps I should start a new thread but I think the OPs issue degraded into beating a dead horse.

Quattro View????? Did you mean Amara View? There is no quattro view that I am aware of.

And yes...for specific ideas devoted to your problem it is probably better to start a new thread of your own.
Your problems will get lost in this thread and a lot of people won't see it.

At cpap.com the Simplus doesn't come with free return insurance but it does have available insurance to purchase at around $25.
I know it's not as good as free but it makes the cost of the mask a lot less if you end up hating it.

I may know of a slightly used Simplus that isn't wanted anymore. Would you get too freaked out over trying a used mask? Gently used...not worn out used. If it is unwanted (which I think it probably is by now) all it would cost you is shipping.
Now if used freaks you out too much...that's okay. I know that used isn't for everyone.
Any idea what size you would take in the Simplus?

Yeah, I meant Amara View. I have the medium & small masks for the Amara View. I think the gauge says I am a small, but neither size work well for me.
It is interesting the professionals around here do not use any sizing gauges. It looks like I am between Medium & large (?) for the Simplus. The medium is still on the bridge of my nose so I assume large.

I did not see that return insurance option mentioned on the page. Apparently I move around a lot at night like you. That is why I am concerned about the Simplus. I guess there is not enough data yet on the F20.
A used mask would not freak me out too much, but I think my wife would freak. Thank you for the offer.

In your experience, do you recommend I try the Simplus?

You people have been very prompt & helpful. Much more so than the local paid professionals.

prodigyplace wrote:Thank you for the quick replies. CPAP helps some with avoiding mouth breathing but not a total solution for me.
Anybody have much experience with the F20 mask?

i've had the best luck with the amara view and the airfit F20.

i've tried quite a few full face masks, and i just couldn't deal with the ones that have a piece going up between the eyes and a piece that rests on the forehead.

both the view and F20 are full face masks that are smaller and not as obtrusive and constrictive feeling, to me.

my only issue with the F20 was that at first, i could not keep the top part of the mask from digging into my nose. finally i realized the top straps were just a bit too tight even at their longest settings, so i sewed an extra 2" of cloth to the end of the top straps and now that mask fits great.

both the amara and the F20 seal fairly well for me, and are much more comfortable on my face than the other 5-6 masks i've tried. everyone's face is different.

one thing i really like about the F20 is the connector for the bottom straps. the connect to the mask with magnets, and it is super easy to get on and off.

i alternate between those two masks right now and that seems to work for me.

crestifer wrote:

prodigyplace wrote:Thank you for the quick replies. CPAP helps some with avoiding mouth breathing but not a total solution for me.
Anybody have much experience with the F20 mask?

i've had the best luck with the amara view and the airfit F20.

i've tried quite a few full face masks, and i just couldn't deal with the ones that have a piece going up between the eyes and a piece that rests on the forehead.

both the view and F20 are full face masks that are smaller and not as obtrusive and constrictive feeling, to me.

my only issue with the F20 was that at first, i could not keep the top part of the mask from digging into my nose. finally i realized the top straps were just a bit too tight even at their longest settings, so i sewed an extra 2" of cloth to the end of the top straps and now that mask fits great.

both the amara and the F20 seal fairly well for me, and are much more comfortable on my face than the other 5-6 masks i've tried. everyone's face is different.

one thing i really like about the F20 is the connector for the bottom straps. the connect to the mask with magnets, and it is super easy to get on and off.

i alternate between those two masks right now and that seems to work for me.

Thank you. Are you an active sleeper or do you tend to stay in one position all night?
I will wait to see what Pugsy says too.

prodigyplace wrote: In your experience, do you recommend I try the Simplus?

I am the wrong person to ask about the Simplus. I couldn't stand it. But you have to remember that I can't stand anything across the bridge of my nose. The only full face mask that I have ever been able to actually sleep with was the Amara View and a long time ago the Innomed Hybrid (has nasal pillows). I don't have enough experience with full face masks to offer much of anything except my own experience with the Amara View. I learned a long time ago that any mask coming across the bridge of my nose would be a no go for me due to the congestion the pressure of the mask caused. If I am congested I can't sleep. For the same reason I don't do the nasal cushion masks either. Heck...even the weight of my sunglasses on my nose will cause congestion sometimes.

To see the return insurance option (free or purchase price) available on cpap.com masks you have to choose a size and then click on "customize and buy" and then you get to the second page where return insurance information is shown. It will default to free when it is a no cost option...or give you the option to choose the added cost when free is not available.
You don't actually buy anything until you add it to your cart and then check out.

So I don't know what to tell you about the Simplus. I have never used it. Stuck it on my face once for about 5 minutes and the congestion was immediate and I no where had it remotely snug enough to even think about sealing.
I know a lot of people love it and a lot of people hate it (that's how I got a used mask donated to give out for others to try) and with any mask they all come with a huge YMMV sticker and you just have to try one to know if it will work for you or not.

As for the F20...I have never even seen one.

.

desiderata wrote:I see you use a FFM, but I didn't notice whether you're experiencing high leaks. That would take precedence over other measures. Measures such as can be found here:

https://www.google.com/search?q=dry+mou ... s&ie=UTF-8

I would rather work on keeping mouth shut and thus decreasing outflow of air (cervical collar, mouth taping, chinstrap) than using those products, which are okay but it's more effective to fix the cause rather than consequence.