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Dang!!
Sheriff

Pugsy wrote:It's a good thing people couldn't read my mind. It was far from civil.

Not sure I would call it civil or empathetic. But there seems to be room for only one opinion here and certainly no room for discussion never mind a civil discussion.

Pugsy wrote:Empathy or compassion....somethings that a lot people seem to find in short supply.

Pugsy wrote:Empathy or compassion....somethings that a lot people seem to find in short supply.
Especially the people who have different political views. They are right and we are wrong/stupid or whatever because we don't agree with them.
They have a right to be happy with the results but for some reason can't seem to understand that we have the same right to be unhappy with the results...and we have the same right to voice our unhappiness as they do to voice their happiness.
But no...there's something wrong with us because we voice our unhappiness.
Makes my ass want to dip snuff.

No room for different views I guess either and you haven't heard mine. I only tried to point out that you (we) are in charge of our destination and how we get there. But that got lost in the anger.

Please tell me how you would want others to act when your candidate wins? Would you like them to treat you the way you treated them?

Not gonna ask who you voted for but did you vote?

Guest wrote:Please tell me how you would want others to act when your candidate wins? Would you like them to treat you the way you treated them?

Let's take a little trip down Memory Lane, and then we'll see if you're still whining:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gw6R-kIX4fA

Why is hypocrisy so embraced by the right?

Guest wrote:Not gonna ask who you voted for but did you vote?

Yep...sure did and in fact voted 2 weeks ahead of election day to make sure I got it done in case something happened.

Guest wrote:Please tell me how you would want others to act when your candidate wins? Would you like them to treat you the way you treated them?

Hmm...scratching my head here as to if you really care or not but here goes...

Well...my husband is a Trump guy and obviously I am not and yet we haven't had World War III nor a divorce or even harsh words. He laughs at me when I go into a rant (and I sure as hell do) and I did the same to him when he was whining about the possibility of different results before the election happened... but we do it with love and civility and he makes an effort to see my point of view and I made an effort to see his point of view.
I never could agree with him but I did try to see his point of view. I listened...though.
So I think I have handled things fairly well and I usually stay out of politics threads because no one ever wins.
I do think that BB is just as entitled to voice her unhappiness as the next person and to blame her for worrying herself to the point of not sleeping...or whatever...is just plain mean spirited.

Instead of "you did it to yourself" mentality towards people who are hurting....how about something else? Is that really so hard for you to understand?
Take the original subject causative factor out of it...forget that a person is having trouble sleeping because of the election...would you still tell someone "you brought it on yourself"? If it was any other reason in the world world besides the election results would you still be that cold and heartless?

That's what I objected to...not that you are or were pro anyone or that you and I differ in opinions about the election or hell, even if the sun rises and sets in the right place.
It was the holier than thou attitude that I had a problem with.
If my husband said that to me...I would be hurt beyond belief.

The ONLY reason I chimed in here was to state that I took offense to the "you brought it on yourself" part of what you said.
It implies that anyone having any problem with anything in life should look at all their problems in that light and that's simply not true.
It conveys a cold mean spirited heartless point of view and if you can't see that...then I feel sorry for you.

And yes...you are certainly entitled to say your opinion...but so do I.
And with that sir...good bye.
I have a headache from banging my head against the wall trying to just get you to just see my point of view (I hold no illusions about changing your mind about anything) and maybe get you to dig out some empathy for the people hurting instead of making fun of them...and yes...I did do that to myself but this old woman sees the stupidity in doing it anymore...I won't be chatting with you anymore.

Pugsy wrote:Instead of "you did it to yourself" mentality towards people who are hurting....how about something else? Is that really so hard for you to understand?

Is honesty suddenly unhealthy? Ever heard of honesty is the best policy?

Pugsy wrote:It was the holier than thou attitude that I had a problem with.

Sorry you see honesty that way. Tell me the truth until it hurts

The thing about honesty - you don't have to believe it - just know it is there.

Pugsy wrote: The ONLY reason I chimed in here was to state that I took offense to the "you brought it on yourself" part of what you said.
It implies that anyone having any problem with anything in life should look at all their problems in that light and that's simply not true.
It conveys a cold mean spirited heartless point of view and if you can't see that...then I feel sorry for you.

Would you want your doc to not be honest with you and tell you take these pills and everything will be alright?

A look inside yourself (myself) can help one understand when there are misunderstandings. Just as I am now to understand why this went wrong as I do think it was more than just a poor choice of words on my part.

But hey, I gave it my best. What I learned here is that written words are often misunderstood because they are colored by the readers experiences which are too often unknown to the writer.

I didn't look at the videos but did see some Youtube links when searching for "look inside yourself to sleep".
Searching for introspection will find more.
Exercise and sleep go together for a healthy body & mind; introspection completes the trifecta.

- HTH-

“Knowing yourself is the beginning of all wisdom.” ― Aristotle

Ahhh crap...I know I said I was done but this honesty thing or excuse for being brutal ...I can't let it slide.

So...

Guest wrote:Is honesty suddenly unhealthy? Ever heard of honesty is the best policy?

You think that it is okay to be mean and nasty just because YOU think you are doing someone a favor by being honest or what you think it honest?

Ahh...I understand now...you don't know tact or how to use it to soften words that could hurt.
I bet you would tell someone who was losing sleep because their child died of a drug overdose that they brought it all on themselves because the child did something stupid. It's honest yeah...but it sucks in the empathy department.

Sometimes that proverbial 2 X 4 needs to be padded before coming up the side of someone's head....is my opinion...and not full of nails sticking out all over the place.

I bet if you and I each took an empathy test (and I had done it) that the scores for each of us would vary widely. I hope to hell you aren't some sort of therapist in real life.

Pugsy wrote:I hope to hell you aren't some sort of therapist in real life.

There is no way for someone who isn't empathetic to suddenly find it. You either are an empathetic person or you're not.

I'm all for looking inside yourself to find out why I do things one way or the other and why... but, it's not my job to know how that works for someone else. It is my job to be empathetic to someone who seems to be having difficulty for one reason or another. It's not my job to belittle someone who isn't sleeping, is over eating, has headaches and stomach aches... for whatever reason. It is my job to offer them a cuppa tea and not make them feel worse than they already feel.

Guest can't possibly be a therapist... he wouldn't have any clients.

talk about holier than thou looky here

Pugsy wrote:I bet if you and I each took an empathy test (and I had done it) that the scores for each of us would vary widely

Pugsy wrote:[It was the holier than thou attitude that I had a problem with.]\\\

Lucyhere wrote:it's not my job to know how that works for someone else. It is my job to be empathetic

so do tell how being empathetic is helping the op sleep this should be good then tell why it is palerider can get away with out and out insults and youall dont say a word to him

Pugsy wrote:It conveys a cold mean spirited heartless point of view and if you can't see that...then I feel sorry for you.

are you talking to palerider here


Well...my husband is a Trump guy and obviously I am not and yet we haven't had World War III nor a divorce or even harsh words. He laughs at me when I go into a rant (and I sure as hell do) and I did the same to him when he was whining about the possibility of different results before the election happened... but we do it with love and civility and he makes an effort to see my point of view and I made an effort to see his point of view.
I never could agree with him but I did try to see his point of view. I listened...though.
So I think I have handled things fairly well and I usually stay out of politics threads because no one ever wins.
I do think that BB is just as entitled to voice her unhappiness as the next person and to blame her for worrying herself to the point of not sleeping...or whatever...is just plain mean spirited.

Instead of "you did it to yourself" mentality towards people who are hurting....how about something else? Is that really so hard for you to understand?
Take the original subject causative factor out of it...forget that a person is having trouble sleeping because of the election...would you still tell someone "you brought it on yourself"? If it was any other reason in the world world besides the election results would you still be that cold and heartless?

That's what I objected to...not that you are or were pro anyone or that you and I differ in opinions about the election or hell, even if the sun rises and sets in the right place.
It was the holier than thou attitude that I had a problem with.
If my husband said that to me...I would be hurt beyond belief.

The ONLY reason I chimed in here was to state that I took offense to the "you brought it on yourself" part of what you said.
It implies that anyone having any problem with anything in life should look at all their problems in that light and that's simply not true.
It conveys a cold mean spirited heartless point of view and if you can't see that...then I feel sorry for you.

And yes...you are certainly entitled to say your opinion...but so do I.
And with that sir...good bye.
I have a headache from banging my head against the wall trying to just get you to just see my point of view (I hold no illusions about changing your mind about anything) and maybe get you to dig out some empathy for the people hurting instead of making fun of them...and yes...I did do that to myself but this old woman sees the stupidity in doing it anymore...I won't be chatting with you anymore.[/quote]

Guest wrote:
“Knowing yourself is the beginning of all wisdom.” ― Aristotle

Agreed,

Maybe think about this one.

"Le sage ne dit pas ce qu'il sait, le sot ne sait pas ce qu'il dit"

esel wrote:

Guest wrote:
“Knowing yourself is the beginning of all wisdom.” ― Aristotle

Agreed,

Maybe think about this one.

"Le sage ne dit pas ce qu'il sait, le sot ne sait pas ce qu'il dit"

English Translation

"The wise man does not say what he knows, the fool does not know what he says. "

I am not at all a Trump supporter, did not vote for him and still have trouble believing such a person was elected to the highest office in our great (already great) country. But ...

Guest: Does Trump have that much power? Honestly? I call this "self-induced".

every generation we become weaker and easier to control. Jim

What power does Trump have over my life? Maybe he will get an income tax change through Congress? He has little to no effect on my life. After about 8 hours of shock that Trump was elected, it was over with me. I slept well the night after the election.

I have to agree with "Guest" that this is self-induced psychological trauma. PTSD - President Trump Stress Disorder - the cure --- turning off the TV and getting on with your life.

the cure --- turning off the TV and getting on with your life.

Thats it Midnight Strangler. Amen.

Pugsy wrote:

esel wrote:Would one see any difference if the machine was set to CPAP fixed Min epap = Max epap = 4 ?

Most likely those settings would allow a truckload of obstructive apnea events to happen. Wouldn't be a good idea to tie the machines hands like that. That's a recipe for disaster in this situation.

There's nothing on the reports that might explain poor sleep quality....we just see evidence of poor sleep reflected in the hours slept.
Life stressors can cause insomnia too. Not everything can be blamed on sleep apnea and not everything can be fixed by cpap/apap whatever pap. No matter how much we might want it to.
In this situation with BB...the life stressor is our new President and not anything related to sleep apnea or her therapy.

Yes, I completely agree.

My question was not clear. I am wondering how or if CPAP data, with Min epap = Max epap = 4, could be affected by external stress. Meaning that stress / insomnia would reflect more or less events (CA, OA, H or Flow Limitation) ?

For myself I regularly set my machine, for one night, on CPAP Mode EPAP min = max = 4 just to see how I am doing on that setting. I still struggle with the ASV and do poorly on the ASV Auto. I am now altering one week with ASV Mode EPAP 6.0 PS 0.2-5.2 and one week without the machine. Mood disorder is quite an issue for me.

Midnight Strangler wrote:I am not at all a Trump supporter, did not vote for him and still have trouble believing such a person was elected to the highest office in our great (already great) country. But ...

Guest: Does Trump have that much power? Honestly? I call this "self-induced".

every generation we become weaker and easier to control. Jim

What power does Trump have over my life? Maybe he will get an income tax change through Congress? He has little to no effect on my life. After about 8 hours of shock that Trump was elected, it was over with me. I slept well the night after the election.

I have to agree with "Guest" that this is self-induced psychological trauma. PTSD - President Trump Stress Disorder - the cure --- turning off the TV and getting on with your life.

I see you are also lacking in the empathy department Midnight Strangler. Just because Trump will have little effect on your life doesn't mean other people are in the same position.

And to quote Pusgy's response to Guest which applies to you also, ""I bet you would tell someone who was losing sleep because their child died of a drug overdose that they brought it all on themselves because the child did something stupid. It's honest yeah...but it sucks in the empathy department.""

49er

esel wrote:My question was not clear. I am wondering how or if CPAP data, with Min epap = Max epap = 4, could be affected by external stress. Meaning that stress / insomnia would reflect more or less events (CA, OA, H or Flow Limitation) ?

Insomnia itself sort of reduces any apnea events because the sleep time is reduced and we have to be asleep to have sleep apnea events happen.
So insomnia reduces sleep apnea events but only because it reduces sleep time.

I don't know that stress affects pressure needs at all. Pressure needs are determined by the physical patency of the airway and in the case of someone with complex sleep apnea brought on by cpap itself (which is what BB has if I remember right) there's the imbalance in carbon dioxide and oxygen that is the cause and I don't see how stress would affect that since it is also a physical response.

What we do know with BB is that dropping the EPAP to 4 is not enough to maintain airway patency...so that alone will increase the obstructive events greatly (I have seen some of her old reports from years ago) and the increase in events of that magnitude would definitely trash sleep quality.
Some people with complex sleep apnea that is mostly central might do okay with a 4 cm minimum and just rely on the quick response to deal with the centrals and maybe hold the airway open decently enough if they don't need much pressure to deal with the physical tissues collapsing for the obstructive side of things but again that's a physical thing and not a mental thing.
From a purely physical standpoint I don't see how stress could affect pressure needs. Now stress obviously affects the sleep quality/insomnia side of things but if we aren't sleeping we don't need cpap/apap/whatever pap.