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Ironically, prior to my own diagnosis and subsequent CPAP therapy, I had probably passed out form exhaustion on a train this guy was driving at least a few times. On the morning of that carnage myself and an OSA suffering colleague gave it a very high probability that it was this exact scenario. We had both walked right by that spot minutes before it happened. Pretty amazing more folks weren't pancaked on the platform given the number of noise cancelling headphones and earbuds in use by us commuters. But we all tend move so fast anyway on a typical morning to get out of that craphole terminal, the hustle and bustle probably saved a bunch of people.

Here in Australia we rely on trucking to get goods and produce from A to B. There are many miles of very straight road in the Australian outback and this is where you will find what we call road trains. They are prime movers towing up to a maximum of four 'dogs'(trailers). I remember being behind a four dog road train and waited until he informed me via UHF radio that I could safely pass him. The sign at the back of his last dog told me I had 54.5 metres (over 60 yards) of vehicle to pass. At 100kmh this takes time.

We have many accidents where cars and, unfortunately, big trucks just drive off straight roads with 'fatigue' being quoted as a factor. None of the state transport departments have acknowledged that OSA might be a significant factor. That little microsleep is all it takes.

I've seen a truck driver crash because he fell asleep at the wheel because I was the person who pulled him out of the cab of his burning prime mover. It was obvious to me that he was not in control well before the crash happened. His first response to me was "What happened?" His truck was incinerated and he later told police that he was trying to swat away a wasp in his cab - total bullshit. He'd driven all the way from Melbourne overnight and was at the end of his run. The police never asked me for my version of events.

Holden4th wrote:Here in Australia we rely on trucking to get goods and produce from A to B.

Who knew???!!!

@Holden4th: you saved his life---ONCE.
Had you stepped forward and told the TRUTH, you may have saved it again--or even others.
Not wanting to get involved, you turned your back on future disaster.
You may someday wish you had made a better choice that day.

Goofproof wrote:They can cure double chin with botox, but you still can run your train into things. Jim

I hear over 50 years ago they came up with a Dead Man's Switch, look at all the money they save by not using it!

They still have a dead man's switch. They work if you fall completely asleep or drop dead. Unfortunately, you can be nodding off or "zombified" and still work the dead man's switch but be pretty much unaware of your surrounding. The older ones were a foot pedal you hold down. Newer ones involve a button you have to push every x seconds, or an alarm will sound, followed by applying the brakes if the engineer doesn't push the button.

They should probably figure out a better system to guard against microsleep. Maybe something like a number display and you then have to push the correct 1 of 4 buttons to stop the alerter. Or it gives you one of those damn CAPTCHA things on a computer screen. "Which of these pictures shows a picture of a dog?" "In what year was the second treaty of Corrina ratified?"

What they were saying at the time of the crash (and appears to be valid now) is was that the trains should have had "Positive Train Control" technology. What that would have done is brought the train to a stop at the terminal station, even if the motorman is not responsive. Also, there are situations other than Sleep Apnea where this would help.

One of the changes that came out of 2015 Metro North accident is that all Metro North and LIRR train operators are now tested for sleep apnea. NJ Transit does not currently test train operators for sleep apnea. Hopefully that will change with the release of the accident findings and recommendations. As Holden4th as alluded to, a larger question is how many professions should be tested for apnea but are not. Mass transit and trucking seem obvious but what about surgeons and first responders? Sometimes there is a tricky line between public safety and being overly bureaucratic.

Side note- Both the Metro North and NJT accidents could have been prevented with the implementation of positive track control. This is a safety measure the NTSB has been pushing for since the 90's. Due to the budgetary (mis)management of both agencies, they missed the 2015 deadline for implementing PTC and obtained an extension from the federal govt. until the end of 2018. Hopefully no more lives will be needlessly lost until these safety measures are finally implemented.

Really, Sleep Apnea screening should be as much part of a routine medical examination as diabetes screening (it's just as prevalent in the population). Of course, they will look at the profiles that most of us no longer think are valid.

They're finally doing something about this, better late than never:

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20 ... /161129991

Attaching the same restriction to civilian drivers licenses?

chunkyfrog wrote:Attaching the same restriction to civilian drivers licenses?

The advent of automatic braking in new cars will probably reduce risk faster and cheaper than any mass OSA screening ever could. I'd bet there's a cost-benefit analysis floating around out there somewhere.

I wonder if insurance companies might try to use covert inside communication
to deny auto coverage/claims to untreated apnea patients, in defiance of HIPAA.